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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: flaperon riveting |
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I am refurbishing one and replacing one flaperon. The one was built according to the original plans using rivets every eight inches. In this case the original builder used solid flush rivets.
It looks like the eight inch spec leaves a lot to be desired and I wanted to shorten the pitch a little, I am torn between four inches and even shorter. I also wonder what rivets people are using. It would be most convenient to use 1/8" alum or steel rivets. It seems a lot of work to do flush riveting when it just sticks out the other side.
Please let me know what you have done to finish this area and how it has held up.
Dave Goddard
KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp
[quote][b]
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: Re: flaperon riveting |
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I | Quote: | am refurbishing one and replacing one flaperon. The one was built according to the original plans using rivets every eight inches. In this case the original builder used solid flush rivets.
It looks like the eight inch spec leaves a lot to be desired and I wanted to shorten the pitch a little, I am torn between four inches and even shorter. I also wonder what rivets people are using. It would be most convenient to use 1/8" alum or steel rivets. It seems a lot of work to do flush riveting when it just sticks out the other side.
Please let me know what you have done to finish this area and how it has held up.
Dave Goddard
KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp |
Dave, the original rivets are 3/32 X 1/8 solid flush aluminum rivets. The manual mentions you need access to aircraft flush riveting equipment for a professional appearance.
I tried to do it with a 100 degree counter sink and vise grips. That didn't work very well for me. It is hard to countersink the skin without making the hole too large, then the rivet head pulls through. I gave up on the solid flush rivets and used 3/32 X 1/8 aluminum pop rivets. It makes a good secure seal on the trailing edge and it looks okay but definitely would cost you points if you want a show plane.
The flaperon trailing edge is epoxied together from the factory. Mine were starting to separate when I installed them so I worked more epoxy in where I could, installed the pop rivets and clamped them tight between the rivets until the epoxy set up.
I used the 8" spacing and has held up well for 8 years now.
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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: flaperon riveting |
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Eight inches, flush solid rivets (other side sticks out like you
said), and has held up fine for 800 hrs and 3-1/2 years.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 814.7 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs~185 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Nov 25, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Dave G wrote:
| Quote: | I am refurbishing one and replacing one flaperon. The one was built
according to the original plans using rivets every eight inches. In
this case the original builder used solid flush rivets.
It looks like the eight inch spec leaves a lot to be desired and I
wanted to shorten the pitch a little, I am torn between four inches
and even shorter. I also wonder what rivets people are using. It
would be most convenient to use 1/8" alum or steel rivets. It seems
a lot of work to do flush riveting when it just sticks out the
other side.
Please let me know what you have done to finish this area and how
it has held up.
Dave Goddard
KF IV 1050 / 582 / Warp
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: flaperon riveting |
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The trick with using flush rivets with thin aluminum is to avoid
countersinking. Instead, use a dimpler. Rather than removing metal it
presses the correct amount of impression for the rivet head to be flush with
the metal and gives a full contact and strong union. It's relatively
inexpensive to buy a set of common sizes to be used with a nail and pop
rivet gun or vice grip type. Works great for small projects like the
flaperons. Couple of examples below.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/visedimplers.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/popgripdimp.php
| Quote: |
Dave, the original rivets are 3/32 X 1/8 solid flush aluminum rivets. The
manual mentions you need access to aircraft flush riveting equipment for a
professional appearance.
I tried to do it with a 100 degree counter sink and vise grips. That
didn't work very well for me. It is hard to countersink the skin without
making the hole too large, then the rivet head pulls through. I gave up
on the solid flush rivets and used 3/32 X 1/8 aluminum pop rivets. It
makes a good secure seal on the trailing edge and it looks okay but
definitely would cost you points if you want a show plane.
The flaperon trailing edge is epoxied together from the factory. Mine
were starting to separate when I installed them so I worked more epoxy in
where I could, installed the pop rivets and clamped them tight between the
rivets until the epoxy set up.
I used the 8" spacing and has held up well for 8 years now.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 74766#274766
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: flaperon riveting |
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Hi Tom,
The original flaperons were glued together at the trailing edge with
structural epoxy or Hysol, I guess today. The rivets were just a fail safe
feature in case the glue broke loose, which it does at times.
Eight inches worked fine for my original 900 hr Model IV and that is what I
am using on the present project. Solid alum rivets are the easiest and
cleanest. A rivet squeezer is handy, but they are pricey. Maybe you could
borrow one for a day.
Regarding the spacing. Good question. If the flaperons I am currently
using weren't already riveted, I think I would use the 3/32" rivets every
four inches as you suggest. 1/8 inch riverts on the trailing edge are big
time overkill in my opinion, since their primary function is to help the
adhesive.
Lowell
---
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: flaperon riveting |
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Deke, Love Milton Friedman. I have both of those dimplers. On occassion I have dimpled for flush rivets with a center punch and a hammer. You would be surprised how consistent you can get with only a couple of practice try's and how much faster it is than a dimpler, especially that one that uses a pop riveter.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:00 PM, fox5flyer <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net (fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net (fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net)>
The trick with using flush rivets with thin aluminum is to avoid countersinking. Instead, use a dimpler. Rather than removing metal it presses the correct amount of impression for the rivet head to be flush with the metal and gives a full contact and strong union. It's relatively inexpensive to buy a set of common sizes to be used with a nail and pop rivet gun or vice grip type. Works great for small projects like the flaperons. Couple of examples below.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 438+ TT
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara
Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand."
-- Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/visedimplers.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/popgripdimp.php
[quote]
Dave, the original rivets are 3/32 X 1/8 solid flush aluminum rivets. The manual mentions you need access to aircraft flush riveting equipment for a professional appearance.
I tried to do it with a 100 degree counter sink and vise grips. That didn't work very well for me. It is hard to countersink the skin without making the hole too large, then the rivet head pulls through. I gave up on the solid flush rivets and used 3/32 X 1/8 aluminum pop rivets. It makes a good secure seal on the trailing edge and it looks okay but definitely would cost you points if you want a show plane.
The flaperon trailing edge is epoxied together from the factory. Mine were starting to separate when I installed them so I worked more epoxy in where I could, installed the pop rivets and clamped them tight between the rivets until the epoxy set up.
I used the 8" spacing and has held up well for 8 years now.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274766#274766<=========
he Contribution link below to find out more about
lder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
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