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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

Bro. Richard C

  

   I was kidding C of course C about the ionization C etc. Cetc....

  

   But C John's question was about engine instruments.  I don't think a demagnetizer will hurt or affect them.

  

   However C I wasn't referring to "any" electrical instruments (or a compass).  It may very likely effect these things....only a true labratory test would tell.

  

   As usual C the safe thing to always recommend is; check with the manufacturer!!  They're the people that would know what is safe for their instrument to get next to C or not.

  

 Mike Welch

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

an old fashioned magnetic tachometer might be compromised.BB

On 21, Dec 2009, at 3:05 PM, Mike Welch wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Anybody else got a simple explanation to answer my question, "Will the >degausser damage my electric engine instruments?"

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  john h - Getting ready to exercise my right to flight, this afternoon.

mkIII

 
	


Okay, okay, I'll be serious.

 

  Electric temperature instruments are designed to reflect the difference in resistance and current, i.e. the electrical current generated by two dissimilar metals when exposed to temperature.  The sending units are "thermisters"...temperature dependant resisters".  The higher the temperature the lower the resistance, (due to the electrical current flowing between to dissimilar metals)

  The gauge simply displays the present resistance, but it does so on a scale that is calibrated in temperature degrees.

 

  It is very doubtful a demagnetizer can have any effect on electrical engine gauges, unless the demagnetizer is on, and momentarily passing near an instrument, affecting it's electrical activity....but the gauge would not experience any after effects.

 

IMHO.

 

Mike Welch

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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 [quote][b]

tclongo(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

John/Gang:  When I degaussed my MK III I had the compass out because I would

put it in the dash area and it would be of by 90 deg but all my other

instruments were in the dash. It did not affect any of them, did not think

it was a good idea to leave the compass in since it works on magnetic field,

also after I was done when I held compass inside where it mounted it now

read correctly so it was a good before and after test. Tom



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elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

Tom 

   I wouldn't be so sure about it not affecting a Tach I had to replace that one because it was not reading correctly It might not have been affected by the degaussed you did to it,  it may have been an inferior Tach I would rather believe 

 

   Ellery in Maine 

 

 

   --

Michael Sharp

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

Mike,  

Now THAT’S Funny!  

   

If you delouse it wrong it might create a tear in the time space continuum… and we can’t have that!!!  LOL  

   

Mike  

The other one in Missouri  

   

Do Not Archive..  

         

  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Welch

 Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 1:00 PM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Card Compass Question  

  

   

 	  Quote: 	
		   If it works for you, I will probably try it on my mkIII. Wonder if it will 

 > damage engine instruments? Anybody know?
	


 > 

 > john h

 > mkIII

  

  

 John, all others,

  

   Yes, as the following formula shows, it will affect your ionization calibration gauge, especially if placed between, or right next to the photon mass emitter;

  

 From the basic k-space formula, it follows immediately that we reconstruct an image simply by taking the inverse Fourier transform of the sampled data, viz.  

  

   

Mike Welch

 MkIII CX

 

       

  

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       [quote][b]

_________________
The air up there in the clouds is very pure and fine...And why shouldn't it be?-
--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

Mike

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

When I degaussed my MK III I had the compass out because I would

 	  Quote: 	
		   put it in the dash area and it would be of by 90 deg but all my other

 instruments were in the dash. It did not affect any of them,


	


 Tom

Thanks, Tom/Gang:



That is the info I was looking for, someone that had actually degaussed 

their fuselage and instrument panel, and the results they obtained with 

electric engine instruments installed.



My mag compass has always been about 90 degrees off, but changes in size of 

error as the aircraft is rotated around its axis.



I've flown the mkIII with an inop mag compass for nearly 3000 hours.  Would 

be nice to be able to use it to maintain my heading on long cross country 

flights, rather than contantly looking down at my thigh to read the GPS.  If 

I am lucky, I can pick out a terrain feature, water tank, tower, barn, etc., 

and stay on course that way.



I'm getting antsy to take a trip in my little bird.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Card Compass Question

A degaussing coil CAN kill engine instruments that incorporate Dâ€™Arsonval meter movements (most do) as this mechanism depends on an internal magnet which you really would not want to de-magnetize.  Digital meters?  I dunnoâ€™.



â€œThe Dâ€™Arsonval movement is a DC moving coil-type movement in which an electromagnetic core is suspended between the poles of a permanent magnet.â€

_________________
Jerry King

Herb Graff

Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 12

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

A tachometer is usually using an aluminum disc, activated by "Eddie  Currents", induced by rotating magnets. Sooo, degaussing that thing, could of  course ruin the accuracy.

  

 Herb Graff

  

 Mark III  N246KT

  

  In a message dated 12/21/2009 6:45:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  elleryweld(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Tom 

   I wouldn't be so sure about it    not affecting a Tach I had to replace that one because it was not reading    correctly It might not have been affected by the degaussed you did to    it,  it may have been an inferior Tach I would rather believe    



   Ellery in Maine  

	


  [quote][b]

tclongo(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

Hi Ellery, That 2” tach always read too high the whole time I owned the MK III that is why I put the tiny tach in there. I did not degauss the cage until the last 15 hrs or so I put on plane because I kept trying different compasses only to get the same result, even borrowed one that was fine in another plane and it was off too, that is when I degaussed the cage and it read correctly. How many hours do you have on it now? Probably too cold to fly now. Tom in warm Florida  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr

 Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:44 PM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Card Compass Question  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Tom   

I wouldn't be so sure about it not affecting a Tach I had to replace that one because it was not reading correctly It might not have been affected by the degaussed you did to it,  it may have been an inferior Tach I would rather believe   

Ellery in Maine   

-----Original Message-----

 From: Tom Longo <tclongo(at)att.net>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Mon, Dec 21, 2009 6:25 pm

 Subject: RE: Re: Card Compass Question  [quote]John/Gang:  When I degaussed my MK III I had the compass out because I wouldput it in the dash area and it would be of by 90 deg but all my otherinstruments were in the dash. It did not affect any of them, did not thinkit was a good idea to leave the compass in since it works on magnetic field,also after I was done when I held compass inside where it mounted it nowread correctly so it was a good before and after test. Tom<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>--

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Card Compass Question

At 08:46 PM 12/20/09 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I had gas welded the fuselage of the J-6, and each cluster joint was highly 

magnetized. Don't know why that is, but it happens.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Richard,



It has to do with the iron atom being polarized.  As you heat up the tubes 

and add material to weld them together, it allows the iron atoms to 

re-orient them selves charge wise relative to the north and south magnetic 

poles.  As the joint cools they remain in this orientation and the joint is 

polarized.  If you weld up your fuselage in a fixture that is in a fixed 

location, then all the welded joints will have the same polarized direction 

and therefore a much greater influence on a compass.



Since energy input (heating in this case) will re-orient the iron atom 

polarity in the joint, the adding of energy to the joint can also 

disorientate it.  This is what the tape eraser or the degaussing coil does.  

It raised the energy in the joint and overwhelms the influence of the 

earth's magnetic poles and leaves the iron atom polarities in a random 

distribution where they cancel out each other effect.



The Germans built the V1 buzz bombs in fixed fixtures.  As result the 

guidance system was over powered by the accumulated magnetism of the 

fuselage structure and skin.  To get away from this problem the assembly was 

mounted on a turntable with men riding along and they beat on the structure 

with wood mallets as the turntable was rotated in the earth's magnetic 

field.  This normalized the structure to the point so that their guidance 

system was affective.



This can be demonstrated by taking a bolt and checking to see if it is 

magnetic.  Then holding the bolt in alignment between the north and south 

poles, strike the end of the bolt with a hammer.  After doing so you will 

find the bolt is magnetized.



Snow and cold.  On my way to pay for next years hangar rent and check on the 

FireFly.  It is nice to have a warm shop in the basement to work in.  Kubota 

is backed into the garage, and the rotary snow plow is mounted ready to go.



Hope everyone has a nice holiday.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive

Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Card Compass Question

Thanks Jack for the info.  Next time I'm visiting the Kolb Factory I will see if I can get there welder, Dennis, to rotate his fixture, welding unit, and himself violently while  making our cages.  This would have to be video-ed of course for U-Tube.        He's a pretty good old boy and would do most anything for us but this may be asking to much.  You just don't really know though until you ask.  

Rick Lewis



WHAT ABOUT IT DENNIS???????????

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: Card Compass Question

PatCoors (and our other other brands) now all come in  aluminum cans.

Very similar to your aluminium ones

Russ

do not archive

On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:16 AM, pj.ladd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)>

Wet compass problem?

just don`t put your Coors carrier next to the compass.

Cheers

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:17 am Post subject: Card Compass Question

Very similar to your aluminium  ones>>

  

 Very good Russ. LOL

  

 i used to know a skipper who had a place to put his  beer right next to the compass. He said that he had swung the compass with the  beer in place so the deviation was known and built in.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

 



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