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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Listers,



	Just another data point.  I had a Duracell AA battery sitting in a

battery holder on a shelf and I just looked at and the bottom had leaked

while it was sitting in the holder. This has been stored at room temp

and was slightly used but showed good on the little built in tester when

I put it in the holder.



Raymond Julian

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

I found the battery. It was a AAA with an expiration of Mar 2010. It 

still showed over 1.3 volts once I cleaned the crud off.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

do not archive



ray wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Listers,

 

     Just another data point.  I had a Duracell AA battery sitting in a

 battery holder on a shelf and I just looked at and the bottom had leaked

 while it was sitting in the holder. This has been stored at room temp

 and was slightly used but showed good on the little built in tester when

 I put it in the holder.

 

 Raymond Julian

simon(at)synchdes.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: Duracell battery leak

Ray,



I've heard too many sob stories about Duracell alkalines.  I've also heard a

few sob stories about Ray-O-Vacs.  I decided that alkalines aren't worth

having in my toys, so I've gone with lithium AA and AAA batteries by

ordering them from www.batteryjunction.com to offset some of the cost.  I

don't have any data that says lithium is any better, but my reasoning is

that manufacturers control leakage better from lithium batteries because

they are more dangerous.  Does anyone have data on leakage from lithium AA

and AAA batteries?



Simon Ramirez

Copyright 2009



--

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: duracell battery leak

Question, can any one correlate the time frame when the Duracell's 

began leaking more frequently.  Since Gillette acquired them, Proctor 

and Gamble has since acquired Gillette.  One other thing, is there 

any correlation to their leaking since product had been released the 

Duracell as Ultra product and CopperTop.  Sure would like to see them 

get a handle on the problem and make them like they used to - you 

could trust them not to leak in ones expensive toys like test 

equipment, cameras, etc.  By the way according to their customer 

service department I was told if you should have one of their 

alkaline batteries leak, use vinegar to clean to the terminals and 

battery compartment area as alkaline is a base and is neutralized by 

the acid in the vinegar.

jerb



At 03:20 PM 12/21/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Listers,



         Just another data point.  I had a Duracell AA battery sitting in a

battery holder on a shelf and I just looked at and the bottom had leaked

while it was sitting in the holder. This has been stored at room temp

and was slightly used but showed good on the little built in tester when

I put it in the holder.



Raymond Julian

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: duracell battery leak

I had a 3 cell Mag Light with Duracells in  it.  Following the marketing hype I always thought they were the best so I  bought them in large packages.  Being a plumber I used it on a fairly  regular basis and I noticed that I had to bump it sometimes to make it turn  on.  One day when it wouldn't turn on at all so I pulled the cap and found  that the batteries had leaked inside and corroded the whole interior which made  them impossible to remove.  I ended up having the throw it in the  bin.  No, I didn't leave it on or leave it stored with dead  batteries.  This wasn't the first time I had an experience with leaking  Duracells.

 Having heard about this previously I decided at  that moment that the best fix for me was to discontinue all use of Duracells and  let others know of my problem with them.  If enough folks stop using them  they'll soon fix the problem...in the form of "new and improved  ultra..."

 Deke

  

  

   [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: duracell battery leak

A few years ago I did a study of variability in various

brands of alkaline batteries. I concluded from the study

that there is no extra value to be realized for the

purchase of batteries that have high-dollar advertising

budgets. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf



I suspect that any brand and any size of alkaline cell

is capable of leaking under some conditions. Further,

given today's business environment for farming out

the production about any kind of product, there's

not much you can hang a hat on for stating that

brand D's demonstrable leakage problems will go away

if one moves their loyalty to brand E.



If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that

ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of

different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery

leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time.

At the same time, we go through batteries pretty

quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used

device.



The fact that some of us here on the

list have suffered a leakage event with a particular

brand is not a definitive study of the propensity

of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells

presently occupying the battery box of our favorite

accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that

the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells.



Bob  . . .

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Deke,

 Sorry that you had to toss the 3-cell Mag Light.  I  would have made a suggestion to try and save it.  I had a 5-cell do that  and with Duracell's.  At first I thought about sending the whole mess to  Duracell as they probably would have replaced the mag light.  But, decided  to see if I could fix it.  Using penetrating oil to soak the cell sides I  was able to tap out the bad cells with a dowel and light hammer work.   Amazingly, the mag light is made pretty well and it cleaned up just fine with  baking soda and oil.  Now, I check the flashlight from time to time as it  is my emergency light for the car and gets little use.

 David

 [quote]   ---

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

That is similar to my experiences with Duracell.  For more than a decade 

I used them in my car and boat flashlights and had no problems. More 

recently I have had several leak.  Same environment and use profile, 

many more failures. Anecdotal evidence, but enough to send me in search 

of a different battery.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN.

do not archive



David LLoyd wrote:

[quote] Deke,

 Sorry that you had to toss the 3-cell Mag Light.  I would have made a 

 suggestion to try and save it.  I had a 5-cell do that and with 

 Duracell's.  At first I thought about sending the whole mess to Duracell 

 as they probably would have replaced the mag light.  But, decided to see 

 if I could fix it.  Using penetrating oil to soak the cell sides I was 

 able to tap out the bad cells with a dowel and light hammer work.  

 Amazingly, the mag light is made pretty well and it cleaned up just fine 

 with baking soda and oil.  Now, I check the flashlight from time to time 

 as it is my emergency light for the car and gets little use.

 David

 

     ---

gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: Re: duracell battery leak

Bob:



I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with 

rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers 

we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in 

particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal 

animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story 

how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on 

to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an 

engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are 

people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that 

only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false 

association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling 

behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult 

curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America 

great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant.

Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you 

have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic 

rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go 

to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering 

curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just 

dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that 

battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is 

due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be 

you will have more respect for them and understand what they do.



Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline 

batteries.



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660

Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain 

they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh 

technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging 

and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from 

internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch 

of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have 

better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline 

is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are 

disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. 

I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed 

and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay 

more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and 

AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in 

things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home 

programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station 

receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However 

with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.



Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!



George

MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767

sportav8r(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: duracell battery leak

Off your meds again, George?



I find your "complaint" not worth the occupied bandwidth.  Perhaps you could utilize "spread-spectrum" by taking it somewhere else.



 On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, gmcjetpilot <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "gmcjetpilot" <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Bob:

 

 I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with

 rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers

 we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in

 particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal

 animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story

 how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on

 to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an

 engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are

 people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that

 only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false

 association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling

 behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult

 curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America

 great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant.

 

 

 Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you

 have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic

 rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go

 to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering

 curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just

 dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that

 battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is

 due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be

 you will have more respect for them and understand what they do.

 

 Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline

 batteries.

 

 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660

 

 

 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain

 they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh

 technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging

 and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from

 internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch

 of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have

 better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline

 is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are

 disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications.

 I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed

 and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay

 more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and

 AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in

 things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home

 programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station

 receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However

 with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.

 

 Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!

 

 George

 MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 "_blank">www.howtocrimp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:13 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

You, sir, get one lump of coal..



Matt-



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>



 Bob:



 I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with

 rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers

 we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in

 particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal

 animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story

 how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on

 to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an

 engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are

 people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that

 only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false

 association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling

 behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult

 curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America

 great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant.

 Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you

 have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic

 rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go

 to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering

 curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just

 dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that

 battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it

 is

 due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be

 you will have more respect for them and understand what they do.



 Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline

 batteries.



 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660

 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain

 they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh

 technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging

 and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from

 internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch

 of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have

 better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications.

 Alkaline

 is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are

 disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications.

 I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed

 and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay

 more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and

 AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in

 things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home

 programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station

 receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However

 with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.



 Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!



 George

 MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 78801#278801

N20DG

Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 61
Location: lancaster, texas

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Deke

   Do you still have thatflashlight??

   If so send it back to Mag-lite. They'll repace at no charge I've done it

   Just my $00.0002 Worth

   Merry Xmas & Happy New Year

   Dick

   #606/N20DG

 

 

 

   --

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Shoo, go away.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN

do not archive



gmcjetpilot wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bob:

 

 I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with 

 rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers 

 we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in 

 particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal 

 animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story 

 how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on 

 to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an 

 engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are 

 people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that 

 only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false 

 association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling 

 behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult 

 curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America 

 great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant.

 

 

 Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you 

 have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic 

 rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go 

 to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering 

 curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just 

 dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that 

 battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is 

 due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be 

 you will have more respect for them and understand what they do.

 

 Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline 

 batteries.

 

 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660

 

 

 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain 

 they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh 

 technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging 

 and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from 

 internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch 

 of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have 

 better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline 

 is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are 

 disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications. 

 I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed 

 and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay 

 more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and 

 AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in 

 things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home 

 programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station 

 receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However 

 with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.

 

 Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!

 

 George

 MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 78801#278801

gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: duracell battery leak

Thanks for your kind comments trolls and Bob's girlfriends. Merry Christmas.

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

You could do like me.    

   

Just add the address to the spam filter.  

   

Phil  

   

   

     

From: Bill Boyd [mailto:sportav8r(at)gmail.com] 

 Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 12:28 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: duracell battery leak  

  

   

Off your meds again, George?    

   

    

I find your "complaint" not worth the occupied bandwidth.  Perhaps you could utilize "spread-spectrum" by taking it somewhere else.    

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 1:08 PM, gmcjetpilot <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:  

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "gmcjetpilot" <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Bob:

 

 I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with

 rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers

 we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in

 particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal

 animus for any one who is an a true engineer. You went into a long story

 how you would not hire engineers, as if you had that power. You went on

 to say you would prefer some one from a vocational school over an

 engineer with a degree from an accredited University. I know there are

 people like you, but never heard anyone bash education. Dear Sir, that

 only shows your ignorance of what an engineer is, making your false

 association, even in passing, even more egregious. America is falling

 behind because people are not taking engineering, a very difficult

 curriculum. To bash engineering, which is part of what made America

 great, engineering excellence, is really un-American and ignorant.

 

 

 Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you

 have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic

 rants. You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go

 to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering

 curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just

 dishonest. You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that

 battery test circuit your original design? You should give credit where it is

 due. May be you should go back to school and take engineering. May be

 you will have more respect for them and understand what they do.

 

 Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline

 batteries.

 

 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660

 

 

 Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain

 they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh

 technology, a good NiMh charger and/or use poor technique in charging

 and using them. They are so cheap now, if bought in quantity from

 internet discount stores or eBay. There is no reason not to have a bunch

 of fully charged AA or AAA batteries ready on standby. Alkaline do have

 better shelf life and do have longer run life in most applications. Alkaline

 is a wonderful chemistry for solid battery power. However they are

 disposable, and it gets expensive replacing them in high use applications.

 I have some NiMh batteries I first bought around 1999. They finally failed

 and started to decline. I got my moneys worth. There is no need to pay

 more than a $1 each or even $1.80 for the higher capacity NiMh AA's and

 AAA's. It is a worth while investment. Frankly I now only use Alkaline in

 things that need a new battery every year or two, like my home

 programmable thermostat or wall mounted outside weather station

 receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However

 with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.

 

 Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!

 

 George

 MS Mechanical Engineering, ATP, CFI, B737/757/767

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=278801#278801

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 "_blank">www.howtocrimp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

   

  

   

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      [quote][b]

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Bob,

I don't think its an issue of a definitive study but rather 

experience gained over time.  Myself I never used to have problems 

with Duracells leaking - even if they were dead - now they leak for 

no determined reason even if not fully discharged.  Even new ones 

used well within there date code in my PDA device leaked.



Something with the product has had to been changed to cause them to 

leak prematurely.  My experience with Rayovac's is you could just 

about guarantee they would leak if left in a flashlight for any 

period of time.  My experience with Energizers has been better than 

the prior brand but still experienced leakage problems.  In the past 

Duracells seldom ever leaked even if left in equipment for 

years.  Not so anymore, so what is different with them today.  From 

my position I don't have enough knowledge about the engineering and 

manufacturing aspects of this type of battery product to determine 

the cause, I can only base it upon my recent experience in last few 

years to compared to that before then.  I had them leak in my PDA, 

GPS, and a few Mag lites.

jerb

At 08:08 AM 12/23/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



A few years ago I did a study of variability in various

brands of alkaline batteries. I concluded from the study

that there is no extra value to be realized for the

purchase of batteries that have high-dollar advertising

budgets. See:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/AA_Bat_Test.pdf



I suspect that any brand and any size of alkaline cell

is capable of leaking under some conditions. Further,

given today's business environment for farming out

the production about any kind of product, there's

not much you can hang a hat on for stating that

brand D's demonstrable leakage problems will go away

if one moves their loyalty to brand E.



If you dig around in my alkaline cell stock that

ranges from AAAA to D cells, you'll find a host of

different brands. I've not suffered a severe battery

leakage event in so long I don't recall the last time.

At the same time, we go through batteries pretty

quickly. No cell sits around in a seldom used

device.



The fact that some of us here on the

list have suffered a leakage event with a particular

brand is not a definitive study of the propensity

of that brand for failure. If say 90% of all cells

presently occupying the battery box of our favorite

accessories are Duracells . . . it's axiomatic that

the propensity of any failures will be in Duracells.



Bob  . . .

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

Raymond,

Your comments are exactly what I have experienced.  The question is 

what has changed with regards to the Duracell product and is this now 

a product characteristic.

jerb



At 06:28 PM 12/23/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



That is similar to my experiences with Duracell.  For more than a 

decade I used them in my car and boat flashlights and had no 

problems. More recently I have had several leak.  Same environment 

and use profile, many more failures. Anecdotal evidence, but enough 

to send me in search of a different battery.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN.

do not archive

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: duracell battery leak

At 10:01 PM 12/24/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,

I don't think its an issue of a definitive study but rather 

experience gained over time.  Myself I never used to have problems 

with Duracells leaking - even if they were dead - now they leak for 

no determined reason even if not fully discharged.  Even new ones 

used well within there date code in my PDA device leaked.


	


    Well put. The preponderance of experience here on the

    List is compelling.



    A great deal of what's accepted as "best practice",

    "policy", or whatever has been developed over years

    of crafting successful recipes in the kitchen. Chefs

    in those kitchens may not be able to articulate the

    foundations for their success based on the physics

    but they can certainly demonstrate what has worked . . .

    and probably many more things that didn't work.

    It seems that the chefs in Duracell's battery

    kitchen have lost the touch.



    It's a certainty that every manufacturer of high-

    volume, well competed products is always looking

    for ways to improve market share (increased

    advertising . . . perhaps reputation for superior

    quality, etc.). At the same time, they're looking

    for ways to keep the stock-holders happy. NOT an

    easy task or everyone could do it. It may well be

    that the management of once great suppliers of

    alkaline cells no longer possess the 'magic' that

    propelled them to center stage in the first place.

    We've seen it happen many times with many products.

    We're going to see it in the future.



    It will be interesting to watch the market

    dynamic in alkaline cells The majority of cases where

    product performance is found lacking do not support

    our own detailed studies of simple-ideas behind a

    failure to perform. But do ourselves well to

    avoid demonstrable problem children . . . which is

    EXACTLY what this List is all about.



    I regret that I've become ignorant of any such

    failures in the Duracell kitchen . . .

    I don't think I've bought more than a few dozen

    name-brand cells in the last 10 years!



    Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: duracell battery leak

At 12:08 PM 12/24/2009, you wrote:




Bob:



I like the article and have done many test like that, especially with

rechargeable NiMh. I have one complaint, where you say "as Engineers

we'er....". Who is "we" engineers? Normally I would not mind, but you in

particular, have shown some kind of irrational disrespect and personal

animus for any one who is an a true engineer.



   Your penchant for mis-interpreting and/or using

   facts not in evidence to assign motive to my words

   is legendary . . .



Bob, you don't have an engineering degree. In fact on these forums you

have attacked and maligned the engineering profession with vitriolic

rants.



   George, you'll have to be specific. Please link

   us to any "rant" I may have indulged myself . . .

   it's no doubt in the archives.



You really should not "embellish" your qualifications. Engineers go

to school and learn math, physics, science and an intensive engineering

curriculum. I'm offended you'd even think you are an "engineer". It's just

dishonest.



   I have never claimed to be anything more than what

   my resume' states nor what my employers were willing

   to compensate me for performing. Since they paid me

   well for my performance as an engineer in the

   company of other engineers, you'll please forgive

   me if I defer to their definition of the task as

   opposed to the opinion of one who pays me nothing,

   designs nothing, has offered no well considered teachings

   nor satisfies any customer base.



   I humbly suggest that while you claim be an engineer

   on paper, I'm an engineer in the marketplace of

   customers. Your studies may have ended years ago

   but mine have been ongoing since childhood. I am

   (as should we all be) a life-long students/teachers

   in the college of "make it work".



You are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief either. Is that

battery test circuit your original design?



   Say what? It's a computer driven data acquisition

   module set up to plot voltage over time. If one

   uses a tape measure to gather statistical data

   on the variation in lengths on pre-cut studs,

   is one obligated to tip their hat to who ever

   perfected the roll-up steel tape?



Here is another link with extensive comparisons of brands of alkaline

batteries.



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64660



   Nice work . . . much of the data meshes with the study

   I did. The article offers some interesting findings

   on absolute performance. The study I conducted went

   to a deduction of $value$ for the various products.



   The idea was to meet design goals for minimizing cost

   of a single mission while maximizing reliability of

   the battery powered device by not fiddling with

   loose cells and battery box covers in the cockpit.



Personally I am sold on NiMh for all my applications. People complain

they don't last as long. I suspect they don't have the latest NiMh

technology, . . .



     <snip>



  . . . receiver. I do keep some Alkaline's around for "emergencies". However

with all the NiMh fully charged I really don't need them.



    An interesting design goal . . . but doesn't

    seem to address the topic of this thread. Are

    you starting a new thread?  If you want to talk

    NiMh, I've personally tossed out never-used cells

    from inventory that already showed signs of leakage . . .



Merry Christmas every one, fly safe!



    George, you wade in kicking up a cloud of chicken

    feathers and pigeon poop and then wish folks

    a merry Christmas . . . at best disingenuous

    and at worst hypocritical to the extreme.



    Bob Nuckolls, EPT (Engineer in perpetual training)

rvtach

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: Re: duracell battery leak

Sometimes you get what you pay for. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But it's crazy what people try to save money on (airplane tickets, health insurance, car tires). When we buy the cheapest option available we force the higher quality providers of whatever product or service to compete with that option and so all the options available in the marketplace start to look a lot like the cheap stuff. If enough of us are buying our batteries at Harbor Freight then it's safe to assume that Duracell will start making batteries that compete with the Chinese produced stuff rather than making the best batteries they know how to make.

_________________
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Flying

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