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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
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 Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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thanks graham for the deflection note.
Another question for the collective wisdom of group. The flap cross
tube is too far to the left such that the right hinge bracket has two
holes off the hard point (off the left edge) and the left slot is right
on the left edge of the left hard point. In order to get the hinge
brackets onto the hard point the rod would have to move right about 3/8
inch. I shaved 1/16 off the rod to get it to fit between the flaps at
full retraction without pushing them out and currently the two bearings
are right up against the flap roots fully retracted but without pushing
the flaps outboard.
I have tried full deflection and with the cross tube 3/8 to the right
which puts both hinge brackets on the hard points and there appears to
be a lot of of the flap root pin still to go on the left.
The manual is not specific about max clearance at fully retracted
between cross tube and flap root...it just says "small clearance". Is
small 1/16 1/8 or 1/4?
So please can you tell me what the rough clearance is between your flap
root and the cross tube fully retracted so I can have an idea about the
range of possibilities.
Happy New year to everyone and thanks in advance.
Will
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Brian Davies
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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Hi William,
The factory issued a mandatory SB16 in June 2008 (available on their
website) that specifies the maximum gap with the flap fully down so that
will be the limiting factor. I understood that with the flaps in the up
position you could expect a slight push of the flaps outboard.
Hope that helps,
Regards
Brian Davies
--
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:37 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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On 01/02/2010 03:38 PM, William Daniell wrote:
| Quote: | I have tried full deflection and with the cross tube 3/8 to the right
which puts both hinge brackets on the hard points and there appears to
be a lot of of the flap root pin still to go on the left.
The manual is not specific about max clearance at fully retracted
between cross tube and flap root...it just says "small clearance". Is
small 1/16 1/8 or 1/4?
|
Have you noticed the SB about this subject? A Europa here in the
Netherlands nearly crashed when, due to a rough touch-down during a
touch-and-go, the pin slipped out of the cross tube, and upon flap
retraction, the flap was pushed outwards against the aileron, resulting
in a lock-up of the aileron. (And because the pilot had no clue what was
causing the sudden lock-up, he opted for landing with a locked-up aileron).
For this reason I have zero clearance between the cross tube and flap
root, as I can't see the benefit of *any* clearance here. The flaps
allow some sideways motion by the design of their hinges anyway, so any
stress will find an unharmfull way out. The more pin you get into the
cross tube, the less likely the chance that with full flaps down a
sideways jerk to the flaps will get the pin out of the cross tube.
About your question: You have not mentioned why your cross tube won't
fit onto the hard points properly. Are the hard points imbedded at the
wrong locations? Is the cross tube itself manufactured incorrectly, or
is one of your flaps just a tad too short?
I would rather fix any of these anomalies, than to install the cross
tube off the hard points or have more than neglectable clearance between
the flap root and the cross tube.
Happy new year to everyone!
Frans
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:55 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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Frans
the flaps will be pushed outboard when retracted, so you need just
enough clearance, 1/2mm say with flaps retracted. Otherwise they might
start to push the aileron outwards
Graham
Frans Veldman wrote:
| Quote: | For this reason I have zero clearance between the cross tube and flap
root, as I can't see the benefit of *any* clearance here. The flaps
allow some sideways motion by the design of their hinges anyway, so any
stress will find an unharmfull way out. The more pin you get into the
cross tube, the less likely the chance that with full flaps down a
sideways jerk to the flaps will get the pin out of the cross tube.
|
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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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thanks to everyone
I looked at the SB which stipulates a max of 15mm between the root and
the cross tube bearing at full deflection at which point the minimum pin
engagement is 10mm on a 1" length flap drive pin.
By moving my tube to the right at full deflection so that the distance
between bearing and root face is 11mm my hinge brackets are positioned
with the 3/16 hole center not less than 1/2 from the edge of the hard
point which I would guess is adequate.
As to why this has occurred I am not really too sure. the root of one
of the wings is slightly further away from the fuselage than the other.
Given that the spar alignment bush holes are pre-drilled I assumed that
this is normal...
Will
Brian Davies wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi William,
The factory issued a mandatory SB16 in June 2008 (available on their
website) that specifies the maximum gap with the flap fully down so that
will be the limiting factor. I understood that with the flaps in the up
position you could expect a slight push of the flaps outboard.
Hope that helps,
Regards
Brian Davies
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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"As to why this has occurred I am not really too sure. the root of one
of the wings is slightly further away from the fuselage than the other.
Given that the spar alignment bush holes are pre-drilled I assumed that
this is normal..."
this may be a stupid question, but you have done the lift / drag socket
install, to fix the alignment wings/fuse, if so and its the port side wing
that is closer by about 10mm, then yes there seem to be a few kits with this
issue.
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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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My first boss used to say the only stupid question is the one you don't
ask...so thanks for the question .
As it happens the difference between the wing roots and the fuselage is
small 1-2mm not of the order of about 10mm so thankfully that is not the
issue.
I think that the issue is less of a problem than I had thought given
that the minimum engagement with flap pins is 10mm.
Continuing in the subject of aileron jamming I don't see how the flaps
could have jammed the aileron given that the two are separated by a
fiberglass close out or at least at the root...or am I being thick
(perfectly possible)?
I have tried moving my flaps outboard as far as they will go at full
deflection and they rub against the outboard close out of the flap slot
not against the aileron. Further extension is prevented by the outboard
hinge assembly.
Will
craig bastin wrote:
| Quote: |
"As to why this has occurred I am not really too sure. the root of one
of the wings is slightly further away from the fuselage than the other.
Given that the spar alignment bush holes are pre-drilled I assumed that
this is normal..."
this may be a stupid question, but you have done the lift / drag socket
install, to fix the alignment wings/fuse, if so and its the port side wing
that is closer by about 10mm, then yes there seem to be a few kits with this
issue.
|
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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On 01/05/2010 01:56 PM, William Daniell wrote:
| Quote: | Continuing in the subject of aileron jamming I don't see how the flaps
could have jammed the aileron given that the two are separated by a
fiberglass close out or at least at the root...or am I being thick
(perfectly possible)?
|
I'm not sure exactly how, but the pilot involved is a professional and
not making things up. I also know that the alerted rescue team
afterwards was quite shocked when they discovered in what condition the
airplane was landed.
What happened is that the pin slipped out of the socket, and then rested
against the edge of the socket. If you then retract the flaps, the
forces involved are huge, and likely to bend anything, including the
outboard hinges.
I don't know how much clearance there was between flap and aileron in
that particular airplane. Keep in mind though that during flight the
wings will bend somewhat, and that clearance might be smaller than normal.
I believe that the event was covered in detail on this list.
Anyway, it happened, it was a serious event, and it was worth an SB.
Frans
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p-a.austin(at)xnet.co.nz
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: Flap cross tube |
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I also know that the alerted rescue team
| Quote: | afterwards was quite shocked when they discovered in what condition the
airplane was landed.
What happened is that the pin slipped out of the socket, and then rested
against the edge of the socket.
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If memory serves me correctly it was the original factory aircraft G-YURO
that had an incident, where on assembly of the wings to aircraft, one flap
pin failed to engage the cross tube, instead going down the side of it. This
was not noted until after take off where by the aircraft returned and landed
OK. This prompted a bulletin from the factory to cut an inspection hole in
the Flap root close out to check that the pin was correctly engaged.
I decided instead to fill in the Flap root closed out with foam and fibre
glass, building in a tapered cone leading to the pin.
On assembly of the wings to aircraft the Flap cross tube enters the large
opening of the cone, as the flap cross tube nears the pin the tapered cone
dimensions are now just slightly bigger than the Flap cross tube,
centralised to the pin, this forcing the Flap cross tube to self align with
the pin, the tapered cone at this point becomes a straight tube to the base
of the pin.
I do not need or have an inspection hole and regarding the incident above
should the pin come out of the tube for what ever reason!!! it has nowhere
to go but straight back into the tube.
Regards
Peter Austin
ZK-ZEB
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