Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Access panel and wing lockers...

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Access panel and wing lockers...

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

allenricks(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Dear fellow listers...



I am about to commit metalcide on my wing skins.  Two questions.



1.  Does anyone have a really great method or advice for cutting the

    inspection panels out.  Anyone had good luck with a hole saw vs. drill

and file, or any other

    great method.



2.  I need to cut the skins for the wing locker option.  Again, any great

    advice here.  I do have a hand held high speed air cutting wheel.

    Anyone tried one of these,and does it heat the metal

    too much?  Can you keep it straight?  Any other advice or tips.



I'd really hate to screw up the skins at this point.  They are ready to

rivet in place once I have accomplished the above two tasks.



Thanks.



Allen Ricks

Beaverton, OR.

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Allen,

Don't use any power equipment.  These are best done by hand.  If you 

need to cut a circle type

hole for inspection, drill a quarter inch hole at center of it with a 

drill. Then put a sharp tool in your

fly-cutter with the vertical side of the cutting tool to the outside, 

manually pull the tool like a compass

in a circle with very light pressure to remove material until the disk 

virtually drops into your hand.  This

is a fool-proof method where using a drill can be easily pressing your 

luck. Takes about 10 minutes.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/accessspydersafety.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/accessplate2.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/inspectail.gif



On the luggage wing opening, carefully ink mark your opening. Drill a 

hole with a step drill a couple of

inches inside of the line.  Cut the skin away with your best Weiss hand 

shears, right or left hand and work

the hole down to an inch from the ink mark. Then cut to leave an eighth 

inch.  Then proceed to cut on the

inside edge of the ink mark with the shears. Afterward, carefully file 

the edge to smooth it and keep it straight.

This method removes material in a way that will least likely bend any 

outside the perimeter of the hole you

intend to make. Takes a little time, but it is a sure way to get a good 

job. See links below.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/baggagearea/full/baggage-door-rear.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/baggagearea/full/luggageopenrear.gif  

   

If you have further questions, just ask.

Good luck,

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Allen Ricks wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Dear fellow listers...



I am about to commit metalcide on my wing skins.  Two questions.



1.  Does anyone have a really great method or advice for cutting the

    inspection panels out.  Anyone had good luck with a hole saw vs. drill

and file, or any other

    great method.



2.  I need to cut the skins for the wing locker option.  Again, any great

    advice here.  I do have a hand held high speed air cutting wheel.

    Anyone tried one of these,and does it heat the metal

    too much?  Can you keep it straight?  Any other advice or tips.



I'd really hate to screw up the skins at this point.  They are ready to

rivet in place once I have accomplished the above two tasks.



Thanks.



Allen Ricks

Beaverton, OR.

pilotdna(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Hi Allen,



I have not yet made any inspection holes and can't help you there.  However, 

I do cut everything using a die grinder with a 3" cutting wheel as you 

mentioned.  It works extremely well, and the thinnest style wheels 

(depending on vendor, they range from paper thin to almost 1/8" thick) slice 

through .032 and thinner sheet so fast it only gets slightly warm to the 

touch.  The wheel will not distort the edges as hand shears do, and it 

allows "plunge cuts" like you need to do for the locker openings.



After using the cutting wheel to cut close to your intended line, a 90 

degree die grinder with a small 50 grit sanding disk allows very 

controllable final trimming, although if you need to trim more than an 

eighth inch or so you may have to pause to allow cooling since the sanding 

disk does heat the metal up quickly.



This is the technique I have used for all rib, horn, fitting, and skin 

blanks for the H. Stab and elevator.  However, that is all I have built so 

take it for what it's worth.



Do not Archive



Douglas Eatman

601XL/Corvair scratch builder

bill_dom(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Two words.. Olfa Knife

http://www.ch601.org/tools/olfa.htm 



It is the best thing for straight cuts like the one

needed for the wing lockers.



William Dominguez

Plansbuilt Zodiac 601XL

--- Allen Ricks <allenricks(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <allenricks(at)verizon.net>

 

 Dear fellow listers...

 

 I am about to commit metalcide on my wing skins. 

 Two questions.

 

 1.  Does anyone have a really great method or advice

 for cutting the

     inspection panels out.  Anyone had good luck

 with a hole saw vs. drill

 and file, or any other

     great method.

 

 2.  I need to cut the skins for the wing locker

 option.  Again, any great

     advice here.  I do have a hand held high speed

 air cutting wheel.

     Anyone tried one of these,and does it heat the

 metal

     too much?  Can you keep it straight?  Any other

 advice or tips.

 

 I'd really hate to screw up the skins at this point.

  They are ready to

 rivet in place once I have accomplished the above

 two tasks.

 

 Thanks.

 

 Allen Ricks

 Beaverton, OR.

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

 Admin.



 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 


	




protection around

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

For the baggage holes I had rapid success with a jigsaw...Tape the skins

with masking tape so the foot of the saw won't scratch...Then let it

rip...Now don't try to cut up to the edges of the hole with a saw,

grinding wheel or anything else that is "hi speed"...simply cut to

within 3/8ths" minimum and finish off with tin snips.



This mthod has them cut in no time flat!



Frank



601HDS 395 hours...fresh BFR



 



--

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Hi Allen,



It seems like there are as many ways to cut holes in wing skins as 

there are builders doing it.  Let me add my method to the list of alternatives.



First I mark exactly the shape I want in the finished hole with a 

felt tip (permanent) marker.  This often requires making a pattern 

from 1/8 inch plywood or similar material and just tracing the 

outline.  In the case of an inspection hole, I mark the centerline 

and endpoints of the oval shape on the wing and then use my full size 

pattern with matching centerline marks to locate and draw the outline 

on the skin.



To get the actual hole I use what I call my "Sneaking up" 

method.  This method works for everything from forming nearly perfect 

inspection holes to machining parts on a lathe or shoving dirt and 

gravel around with a tractor.  In the wing skin case, I start by 

making a nice hole with a step drill somewhere inside the marked 

pattern.  This hole winds up being 3/4 inch or so and is large enough 

to allow tin snips to start cutting toward the final outline.  Next I 

make as many repeated passes as necessary with the snips removing 

metal from the hole.  Depending on the shape needed, I stop using the 

snips when I am around 1/4 inch from the final mark to right on the 

line for a straight portion of the outline.  Then I move to hand 

files and sometimes a Dremel tool with a triangular (conical?) rotary 

file to work ever closer to the final line.  I like the triangular 

shape because I can choose to use the small radius portion for slow 

cutting or move to larger radius portion for faster metal removal.  A 

rat tail file is great for forming relatively small radius areas like 

a rounded inside corner.



For an actual inspection plate, I start by making the plate 

itself.  I drill pilot holes where the final screws will go.  After 

finding the correct position for the plate, I attach it to the skin 

with duct tape and drill through the holes to get perfect matches for 

the holes in the skin.  Clecos are handy for this process too.  The 

actual inspection hole is then marked inside the screw holes and the 

metal is removed.  Meanwhile the screw holes are opened up to the 

required size for the screws and nut plates installed on the 

inspection plate.  (I set the solid rivets using a 1 ton arbor press 

I have had around the shop for a long time.)  After creating the 

inspection hole, the screw holes are enlarged.  To install the 

inspection plate I like to attach a temporary handle with duct tape 

rolled into a circle to make double stick duct tape.  That is used to 

hold a block of wood onto the plate to position it for the 

screws.  After the screws are installed the temporary handle comes right off.



After reaching the marked outline, it is time to finish the edge of 

metal.  I do this with smooth files of appropriate shape.  The half 

round shape seems to be the best for most uses.  Final finish can be 

done with the files or a few passes with extra fine grit sandpaper or 

emery cloth will make a very smooth edge that won't cut you or one of 

your many girlfriends while they are stowing baggage for the weekend 

in the wilderness.



Good luck,



Paul

XL wings

At 04:28 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anyone have a really great method or advice for cutting the

     inspection panels out.  Anyone had good luck with a hole saw vs. drill

and file, or any other

     great method.

hrs1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

How about cutting the outline with Jillson snips - slow, sure, and easy. 

Touch up with a file.  Robert Schoenberger  do not archive



---

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Allen Ricks wrote:

I am about to commit metalcide on my wing skins.  Two questions.

Anyone had good luck with a hole saw vs. drill and file, or any other

great method.



Allen,

	FWIW I used a unibit to drill out the four corners of the opening.

Then I enlarged the openings with a hand nibbler enough to use simple

straight hand snips with a non-serrated edge.  Then I filed the cut edges

smooth.  It is a manual process, but I felt that I had a lot more control

this way.  They came out fine.  



Jeff Davidson

Do not archive

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Access panel and wing lockers...

Two questions for you Larry.



First, Could you take some closeup photos of the installed fasteners on your wing lockers? Or point me somewhere I can get instructions on how to install them. I've put off their installation and I'm goinfg to have to install them sooner or later and I'm not really sure how they are installed.



Second, did you make those inspection point springy things or did you buy them and if so where?



GigG

www.peoamerica.net/N601WR



 	  larry(at)macsmachine.com wrote: 	
		  Allen,

Don't use any power equipment.  These are best done by hand.  If you 

need to cut a circle type

hole for inspection, drill a quarter inch hole at center of it with a 

drill. Then put a sharp tool in your

fly-cutter with the vertical side of the cutting tool to the outside, 

manually pull the tool like a compass

in a circle with very light pressure to remove material until the disk 

virtually drops into your hand.  This

is a fool-proof method where using a drill can be easily pressing your 

luck. Takes about 10 minutes.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/accessspydersafety.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/accessplate2.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/largeassembly2/full/inspectail.gif



On the luggage wing opening, carefully ink mark your opening. Drill a 

hole with a step drill a couple of

inches inside of the line.  Cut the skin away with your best Weiss hand 

shears, right or left hand and work

the hole down to an inch from the ink mark. Then cut to leave an eighth 

inch.  Then proceed to cut on the

inside edge of the ink mark with the shears. Afterward, carefully file 

the edge to smooth it and keep it straight.

This method removes material in a way that will least likely bend any 

outside the perimeter of the hole you

intend to make. Takes a little time, but it is a sure way to get a good 

job. See links below.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/baggagearea/full/baggage-door-rear.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/baggagearea/full/luggageopenrear.gif  

   

If you have further questions, just ask.

Good luck,

Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Allen Ricks wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Dear fellow listers...



I am about to commit metalcide on my wing skins.  Two questions.



1.  Does anyone have a really great method or advice for cutting the

    inspection panels out.  Anyone had good luck with a hole saw vs. drill

and file, or any other

    great method.



2.  I need to cut the skins for the wing locker option.  Again, any great

    advice here.  I do have a hand held high speed air cutting wheel.

    Anyone tried one of these,and does it heat the metal

    too much?  Can you keep it straight?  Any other advice or tips.



I'd really hate to screw up the skins at this point.  They are ready to

rivet in place once I have accomplished the above two tasks.



Thanks.



Allen Ricks

Beaverton, OR.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: Access panel and wing lockers...

Gig,

I used Dzus fasteners have been illustrated for the installation in the 

2006 Aircraft Spruce Catalog

on page 105.  The problem with Dzus components is picking the right 

sizes. See the following links.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzustools.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzusdimples.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/cowling/full/Dzusspring.gif

The links show a Dzus tool set, the dimpled set of holes that are needed 

and the back side

of the installed Dzus spring.  I use A4 rivets to secure the springs.  

Dimple the material for the head

and use the flat surface on the pop riveter to secure.  Dzus springs are 

S4-225s. The Dzus studs are

S4 (1/4-inch) and are -50 length.  The Dzus grommets are GB4B.

You need a set of dimpling dies that can be pulled with your pop riveter.

I had to make a similar dimpler for the large stud holes to dimple them too.

You need to make a steel drill template to allow marking and drilling 

accurate holes

for the springs and Dzus studs. The holes for the studs should be 

5/16-inch and the

holes for the rivets are 1/8-inch.  You need to make a shim to adjust 

the springs to the correct

height from a smooth surface for uniformity.  The installed spring needs 

to be centered across

the stud hole accurately and can be done visually.  All spring height 

and centering adjustments can be

made by hand with two pair of pliers.

Also, you want to install the springs in a manner that leaves the slot 

aligned with the wind or uniform to

the rest of the installed studs.

Now, as you progress in making or obtaining these parts and making the 

tools, don't just start on your

airplane.  Make a test sample installation on one or two sample patches 

of aluminum.  When you're satisfied

that the installed Dzus pieces are done correctly, then start on your 

luggage area.  I prefer the Dzus fasteners

to the newer components because they're simpler.  If you aren't 

satisfied with the fit, you drill out the rivets as

you would for any other redo and salvage the springs.  You might need to 

tighten the spring for the rivet or not

but I've not had any come loose since they were installed.



The spiders for the inspection plates are of my own design.  The spiders 

have half an inch overlap on the inspection

holes.  The centers are held by an 8-32 screw in a rivnut.  The .040 

inspection plates were spun in a lathe to remove half an inch

of material thickness or .015 so the plate stays centered in the hole 

and the spider is adjusted to a consistent

height that snugs the plate and won't let go.  You should try making 

one. They're not really hard to do.  If you need

to put one forward of the spar underneath, I recommend you add a leading 

edge screw and tinnerman for security.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/spiders.jpg

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/wing/inspectionpanels/full/accessspydersafety.gif



Good luck,



Larry McFarland- 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Gig Giacona wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Two questions for you Larry.



First, Could you take some closeup photos of the installed fasteners on your wing lockers? Or point me somewhere I can get instructions on how to install them. I've put off their installation and I'm goinfg to have to install them sooner or later and I'm not really sure how they are installed.



Second, did you make those inspection point springy things or did you buy them and if so where?



GigG

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum