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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:44 am Post subject: flight plans

Hi all Kolbers,



As i am still gearing up for, and trying to learn about my first long  

X country, I have a question for  you that choose to fly long X  

countrys over lightly populated

areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

  you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would  

you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

   FYI I have a cell phone , GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater  

that has tracking ,check in , I'm OK , and SOS features.

Thanks



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville ,TX

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: flight plans

Frank C

  

   I have taken a few long distance X-country flight (several hundred miles each).  Most have been in my Cessna 172s that I used to own C but one was with a group of guys flying to Arlington Airshow with two Quicksilver 2-places.

  

   While crossing the mountain range to get close to Seattle C one of the Quicks threw a blade on the WarpDrive prop.  Fortunately C there was an emergency airstrip near the summit C and the pilot had enough altitude to glide in.  We C the ground crew C drove to him C dissasembled the plane C and rolled it into the trailer we were towing.  

   Luckily C this situation turned out to be a non-event (a two hour inconvenience).  Had this mishap occur over "rough terrain" C he would have been S.O.L.!!!

  

   On a couple of C-172 cross country's I've flown over "inhospitable" terrain.  If something happened that would have caused me to go down C it would have taken days for a ground crew (or rescue) to get to me.  High pucker factor.  Didn't like it much.

  

   My last x-country flight C from northern California to southern Utah C by way of the southern route C was mostly over main freeways.  I also flew with "flight following" the whole way C with LA Center C and Las Vegas Center.  HUGE comfort factor.

  

   I said all that to say this;  if I were going to fly x-country C and it was my first trip C and it was in an experimental airplane C I would not even consider anything but a route above major roads. 

  

   If C for whatever reason C you have to land the plane where you don't intend C your retrieval could be a thousand times harder in rough terrian.  What could have been a simple dissambly C and roll into a trailer C may now be a massively expensive C arduous rescue.

   Ask our buddy Dennis how much a helicopter costs to go get your plane.

  

   Other people may have a different take on x-country flights C but for me C I'll stay with the highway routes when possible.  Besides C why is it a bad thing to fly your plane a little longer??

  

   Just my thoughts.....

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII CX

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 > From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net

 	  Quote: 	
		   To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: flight plans

 Date: Mon C 18 Jan 2010 03:43:34 -0600

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>

 

 

 Hi all Kolbers C

 

 As i am still gearing up for C and trying to learn about my first long 

 X country C I have a question for you that choose to fly long X 

 countrys over lightly populated

 areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

 you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would 

 you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

 FYI I have a cell phone  C GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater 

 that has tracking  Ccheck in  C I'm OK  C and SOS features.

 Thanks

 

 Frank Goodnight

 Fir===

 

 

 


	


 		 	   		  Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.   [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: flight plans

Hi all Kolbers,



As i am still gearing up for, and trying to learn about my first long  

X country, I have a question for  you that choose to fly long X  

countrys over lightly populated

areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

  you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would  

you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

   FYI I have a cell phone , GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater  

that has tracking ,check in , I'm OK , and SOS features.

Thanks



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville ,TX

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


Frank

  I try to use a flight plan for this reason.     If you don't check in at

the time you said you would arrive,,,,   they send someone to look for you

right a way.  If something happened,   and you did not have cell coverage,

or you could not get the spot's buttons pushed or operating,  due to damage

to the spot or you.  Who would know.  



Boyd

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:05 am Post subject: Re: flight plans

I am not much of a cross country pilot anymore, but here is what I liked to do - Know the center sector frequency for whatever airspace you are in. If you have a transponder and want flight following, that's ok, personally I don't much like flying with constant FAA chatter in my ear.



But if you know what sector you are in, roll up on their frequency, make sure you can hear the controller talking, and then turn the volume down and go back to listening to your mp3 player. You will need to have some idea of sector boundaries and when to change to the next frequency. 



Here is a database of center frequencies -

http://microvoltradio.com/ARTCC/ARTCC.htm



If the fan quits turning, turn up the radio volume, and if no one else is talking, you do it just like in the movies: "Indy (whatever) Center, Mayday, mayday, mayday. Homebuilt Nxxxx just had an engine failure, let me know when you are ready to copy my position." And if you have a transponder, squawk 7700.



Believe me, you will have everybodies undivided attention. Because if the controller misses it and fails to respond, you will almost certainly get some other pilot asking about it (Center, did you hear that Mayday?). Which is what you want. 



While you are waiting for the center to reply, flip your gps to show your present lat/longs. When center replies, read them off. Twice. If you know where you are relative to a landmark on the sectional or whatever, that's good too. Between that and your 7700 code, they will know where you are. (If you glide another 5 miles away from where you said, you better let somebody know...)



Then concentrate on flying the airplane, the feds can no longer help you. They will ask you questions like souls on board, altitude, etc, and it's nice to have that going on, but mostly you need to be flying the airplane.



There are probably other good ways to do it, and if you don't mind listening to FAA chatter, active flight following is best, but after having spent 30 years in the FAA, doing flight following and working various emergencies, that's how I would do it. 



PS: Worth what ya paid for it.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Last edited by Richard Pike on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:09 am Post subject: flight plans

Filing a flight plan is never a BAD idea, but a lot of people see it as an inconvenience and/or hate to think they're relying on "big brother."  However, if you have a (bad) habit of not closing your plans, then you should probably not open one.  In your case, for this trip, it's probably a good idea.  (Note: if you land at a tiny, out-of-the-way airport and have no cell signal, and there's no phone around, you could have a real problem.) 



Flight following can be very useful and provide a comfort zone, but you have to be high enough for your radio to contact them.  This might preclude any ideas about flying low.

Make sure you have plenty of experience using your SPOT, and that your email goes to a wide variety of people, and that those people know what to look out for (the SOS message).

 



You should also try to carry 2-days of water/food, an emergency blanket, matches, duct tape, tie wraps, extra batteries for the GPS, and a knife/tool-kit.  There was once a downed pilot that wasn't too far off the beaten track, but broke a leg and couldn't go anywhere, so, having those essentials might help, even if you're following roads.

 



  -- Robert 

     Houston, TX

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:43 AM, frank.goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)>

  

 

 Hi all Kolbers,

 

 As i am still gearing up for, and trying to learn about my first long X country, I have a question for  you that choose to fly long X countrys over lightly populated

 areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

  you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

   FYI I have a cell phone , GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater that has tracking ,check in , I'm OK , and SOS features.

 Thanks

 

 Frank Goodnight

 Firestar 2

 Brownsville ,TX

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:31 am Post subject: flight plans

Frank



I have flown a number of cross countries mostly in GA aircraft but some in 

my MKIII. If you are concerned about someone finding you follow roads as 

Mike suggests. The best way to have someone track you is to use flight 

following. They watch your every move, mostly good, but they will also see 

every mistake. The biggest problem with flight following is that is 

optional. The controllers will follow only if they have time and have the 

desire to follow. Flight plans work well if you follow the plan and remember 

to close the plan. Way too often pilots forget to close them. Because of 

this there may be some delay in searching for you.



Spot is good but never used one. The old ELTs work but had so many false 

alarms the rescue people way too often ignored them. As soon as the new 

frequencies and spots get popular I would guess they also will be ignored.



I have used flight following in my Kolb a few times but I generally fly 

cross county without any of this stuff except for my cell phone. I have a 

old ELT because it is required.



In Michigan we have a Lake Watch for crossing the great lakes which I will 

no longer do. They require you to check in like every 5 minutes after you 

establish the watch or they send a helicopter. Other areas of the country 

may have watch areas such as mountain watches you can use. If you can't get 

flight following the next best are the watch services.



Again worth what you paid for it.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



---

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: flight plans

Frank C

 

  I failed to address your flight plan question.  Yes!  I would file a flight plan.  Be sure to open it C and also be sure to close it.  Plus C don't forget to check in with ATC once in awhile C so they know your progress along your route.

  

   One important thing to remember regarding flight plans or flight following:  You do NOT have to wait for you to land to close it out!  Usually C whe I have the airport in sight (maybe 10-15 minutes out) C I close my flight following.  You obviously "made it" C and don't need the service anymore.  Why wait until you get on the ground C get busy and have them hunt you down?

  

  I would also draw an exact route of your intended path on a sectional C and leave a copy with a person on your SPOT email notification.  Your cell phone will not be of much value if you stray too far away from highways.  The cell phone towers do NOT give you coverage out in the boondocks.

 

  It's definitely a good idea to have some of the supplies Richard P. mentioned.  Like I said C if it were me C I'd chart my route along major roads.  In the event of a mishap C your landing may be on the road C your cell phone will more likely work C your retrieval vehicle can drive right up to you C and help could be the next car to drive past you.

  A mishap way out in the sticks will not have any of the above.

 

Mike Welch

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: flight plans

 Date: Mon C 18 Jan 2010 03:43:34 -0600

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "frank.goodnight" <frank.goodnight(at)att.net>

 

 

 Hi all Kolbers C

 

 As i am still gearing up for C and trying to learn about my first long 

 X country C I have a question for you that choose to fly long X 

 countrys over lightly populated

 areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

 you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would 

 you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

 FYI I have a cell phone  C GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater 

 that has tracking  Ccheck in  C I'm OK  C and SOS features.

 Thanks

 

 Frank Goodnight

 Firestar 2

 

 

 


	


 		 	   		  Hotmail: Fgo/196390708/direct/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.  [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: flight plans

I don't think I've filed a flight plan since I got my license, over 30 years ago.  If you're just talking VFR flight plan, that's no different from letting somebody know where you're going and when you should be expected to arrive.  I did some long cross countries in the T-Craft, but I never had a radio so I couldn't use flight following or anything like that anyway.  In the Kolb I do have a radio, but I route my flights over areas where I can make a safe landing... no long legs over the forest... and most of Connecticut isn't exactly remote anyway.



 -Dana

 --

  The missionaries go forth to Christianize the savages-- as if the savages weren't dangerous enough already.    [quote][b]

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: flight plans

Hi all,



Thanks to everyone that answered my request. Looks like I will  file a  

flight plan most of the time. Although I can still remember the 2  

times I forgot to close, 35 years ago

just after I got my private.[ Red face and hung down head] It was bad  

enough that I have never filed another one. Could be that as I am  

older now and a little more settled may be that

I can remember the things that I have to do.

   The Kolb list is a wonderful vehicle to access the wealth of  

aviation knowledge that is out there , especially for very light A/ 

C.Thanks again to those that are willing to share.

I,m sure some of that knowledge was acquired the hard way.



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

On Jan 18, 2010, at 10:04 AM, b young wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi all Kolbers,



 As i am still gearing up for, and trying to learn about my first long

 X country, I have a question for  you that choose to fly long X

 countrys over lightly populated

 areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

  you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would

 you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

   FYI I have a cell phone , GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater

 that has tracking ,check in , I'm OK , and SOS features.

 Thanks



 Frank Goodnight

 Firestar 2

 Brownsville ,TX

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



 Frank

  I try to use a flight plan for this reason.     If you don't check  

 in at

 the time you said you would arrive,,,,   they send someone to look  

 for you

 right a way.  If something happened,   and you did not have cell  

 coverage,

 or you could not get the spot's buttons pushed or operating,  due to  

 damage

 to the spot or you.  Who would know.



 Boyd

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:50 am Post subject: flight plans

Hi all,



Thanks to everyone that answered my request. Looks like I will  file a  

flight plan most of the time. Although I can still remember the 2  

times I forgot to close, 35 years ago

just after I got my private.[ Red face and hung down head] It was bad  

enough that I have never filed another one. Could be that as I am  

older now and a little more settled may be that

I can remember the things that I have to do.

   The Kolb list is a wonderful vehicle to access the wealth of  

aviation knowledge that is out there , especially for very light A/ 

C.Thanks again to those that are willing to share.

I,m sure some of that knowledge was acquired the hard way.



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


The worst I have ever had is no phone at the destination airport...   it

took a bit of time to be able to call in and cancel,  ( had to go across the

street  1/4 mile after securing the plane)  ..  in the in between time they

had called my wife.   But when I got to a phone I called the faa and my

wife.   So all was good.   It happened at monument valley.     No radio

coverage at MV on the ground...  best to close the flight plan while still

at altitude.  Or plan some extra time to get to a phone.   My cell had no

coverage at mv.  



Boyd 



Do not archive

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: flight plans

At 02:49 PM 1/18/2010, b young wrote:



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  The worst I have ever had is no phone at the destination airport...   it

 took a bit of time to be able to call in and cancel,  ( had to go across the

 street  1/4 mile after securing the plane)  ..  in the in between time they

 had called my wife... 	


 I forgot to close my flight plan once, while I was still a student pilot.  I remembered several hours later, all panicky (I was 17 at the time and they'd emphasized that you'd pay for an unnecessary search).  The guy at the FSS when I called was real friendly, "don't worry, it's OK, nobody's lookin' for you."  No doubt since it was a controlled field I landed at the first thing they did was contact the tower and verify I'd arrived.



 -Dana



 do not archive

 

 --

  If you don't grow up by age 35, you don't have to.    [quote][b]

vincenic1(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: flight plans

Frank,



I have used a simple device to help remember to open and close flight 

plans.  I  put a small patch of Velcro on the instrument panel.  Then, I 

made a small tag with "Open Flight Plan" written on one side and "Close 

Flight Plan" written on the other side and a small piece of the mating 

Velcro on each side.  With the tag attached to the Velcro, say just 

above the ignition switches, it is hard to forget to open or close the 

flight plan.



Vince Nicely



do not archive

b young wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Hi all,



 Thanks to everyone that answered my request. Looks like I will  file a  

 flight plan most of the time. Although I can still remember the 2  

 times I forgot to close, 35 years ago

 just after I got my private.[ Red face and hung down head] It was bad  

 enough that I have never filed another one. Could be that as I am  

 older now and a little more settled may be that

 I can remember the things that I have to do.

    The Kolb list is a wonderful vehicle to access the wealth of  

 aviation knowledge that is out there , especially for very light A/ 

 C.Thanks again to those that are willing to share.

 I,m sure some of that knowledge was acquired the hard way.



 Frank Goodnight

 Firestar 2

elleryweld(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: flight plans

Vic  in Maine you need something like that that says take off on one side and Land on the other 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: Re: flight plans

 	  frank.goodnight(at)att.ne wrote: 	
		  Hi all Kolbers,



As i am still gearing up for, and trying to learn about my first long  

X country, I have a question for  you that choose to fly long X  

countrys over lightly populated

areas with sometimes rather harsh terrain.When on a trip do

  you file a flight plan with the FAA? If you do or if you don't would  

you please tell me your reasoning for your decision?

   FYI I have a cell phone , GPS and a SPOT brand personal locater  

that has tracking ,check in , I'm OK , and SOS features.

Thanks



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

Brownsville ,TX 	




I agree with others on flight following instead if you have a transponder. 



A flight plan vs FF is a little like the difference between snail mail and email. Both will do the job but the flight plan is a little clunkier. I.e.



VFR flight plan:

- someone realizes you're overdue

- people start making phone calls

- SAR is dispatched

- it's finally discovered you made it to dest. and forgot to close your flight plan

- you get yelled at

- you possibly get cited with violations, etc.



Flight following:

- fan stops turning/other problem

- you: "Albuquerque center, 972SS just lost the engine, I'm a glider going down"

-ATC: "972SS Roger"



Boom, ATC has your position and altitude right there on the screen. The know which dot to chase because of your squawk code. They know what happened and where to look etc.



So to me, it's really a slam-dunk in favor of FF. Back when I flew GA I used FF for breakfast, lunch and dinner. It's great because you're real-time integrated into the ATC system for the major portion of your flight and they can respond real-time to any kind of situation you could end up in during the trip.

And not only that, but they give you traffic reports, weather advisories, etc. It's a great deal all around.

The only drawback is they may turn you down if they're really busy. Tho even then they may hand you off to someone else to try in that event. I think I've been turned down maybe 2 or 3 times out of a whole bunch of times they gave it to me, so it's still pretty likely they'll fit you in.



If you take enough trips of any length it's worth it to fit a transponder and use FF whether or not you file flight plans. I'm thinking about putting one in the titan for this reason...



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: flight plans

From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 07:24:53 -0800

................... 

 	  Quote: 	
		  

While crossing the mountain range to get close to Seattle, one of the Quicks 
	


threw a blade on the WarpDrive prop.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  

............
	




Mike,



What was the cause of failure?



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: flight plans

> While crossing the mountain range to get close to Seattle C one of the Quicks 

 	  Quote: 	
		   threw a blade on the WarpDrive prop. 

 >

 .............

 

 Mike C

 

 What was the cause of failure?

 

 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester C IN

  
	


 Hi Jack C

  

   I don't recall what caused the prop to lose a blade.  To be honest C I don't think I ever knew the exact reason for the failure.  I was more like a bystander in the situation C than a participant.

   A fellow student pilot and I were the ground crew for the two Quicksilver 2-placers.  We drove the pickup and trailer that had the camping supplies and fuel.  It was a full enclosure trailer C to haul a plane C if it was needed.  Obviously C it turned out to be the case.

  

   This incident was on our way to the 1994 Arlington Airshow.  I do remember that the Warp Drive people met with him (Dan C my instructor) C and I think they got everything worked out okay.  Even the Rotax people even got involved C due to the tremendous C violent shaking the engine experienced.  Both vendors were present at the airshow anyway C so they got to work immediately resolving the problem.  

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

 		 	   		  Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security target='_new'>Get it now.  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:11 am Post subject: flight plans

Mike W/Gang:

  

 I too, was at 1994 Arlington Flyin.  Had just  gotten back into the Lower 48 from Alaska.

  

 Bob, with Warp Drive, was there.  He helped me  do some field repairs to my three Warp Drive Blades with JB Weld.  I had  flown in a lot of heavy rain which caused erosion just inboard the nickle steel  leading edges.  At that time 11" edges were max.  Now we have 15"  edges which cover the area that was subject to rain erosion.

  

 Larry Bourne was also there.  He reminded  me that I didn't think it was a good idea for him to try on my MKIII for  size.  I don't remember the incident, but do remember I still had a long  way to fly to get back home to Alabama, by way of the northern, eastern  perimeter of CONUS, and the west coast of Florida.

  

 And to keep this comment relative to the subject  line, no, I do not file flight plans with FAA while flying in CONUS.   However, I do flight follow with friend or family in Alabama and  Florida.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]      This incident was on our way to the    1994 Arlington Airshow.  I do remember that the Warp Drive people met    with him (Dan, my instructor), and I think they got everything worked out    okay.  Even the Rotax people even got involved, due to the    tremendous, violent shaking the engine experienced.  Both vendors were    present at the airshow anyway, so they got to work immediately resolving the    problem.  

 

Mike Welch

MkIII

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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