Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

wingdingy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >>>>>>OBTW very well said Mike we are supposed to be fellow aviators!<<<<<<<

	


Hey David, 



What you said here is the very crux of why I responded so forcefully to ongoing, seemingly never ending, unfounded comments about Jabiru <<reliability>> in the first place. Mike's comment echos my own frustration. Those of you who responded to my comments about Rotax did so exactly as I expected you would. You took the bait, hook, line and sinker. 

 

 With the recent series of responses to my commentary regarding Rotax vs. Jabiru it is patently obvious that the Rotax owners here who have chimed in don't appreciate it one bit when I exaggerate failures that have occurred with your Rotax engine. Why then is it acceptable behavior for some here to repeatedly speak disparagingly of the Jabiru, more often than not with no direct experience with the engine? Are we Jabiru owners supposed to just sit here like potted plants and take it? Many here seem to feel unrestrained to criticize my Jabiru, despite the fact that they addmittedly have no practical experience with Jabiru engines. Doesn't it make more sense to educate yourself, rather than perpetuate exaggerated rumors? 

 

Giles, Mike, and others, understand that I intentionally exaggerated my comments about Rotax engine reliability, knowing full well that my comments would tweek someone into chiming in. Turns out my comments tweeked several folks, exactly as they were intended to do. To each of you who took the bait, I thank you kindly for brilliantly illustrating the very essence of my point. In the southern USA, we call that "hit dog hollers". To quote a more common euphemism, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

We are indeed supposed to be fellow aviators here. This is why I find the perpetual unfounded negative commentary about Jabiru engine <<reliability>> so distasteful. We've all chosen to build and fly the Europa for our own reasons.  Likewise, we've also each chosen an engine to power our Europas for our own reasons. We all should be encouraging each other and helping each other where we can, rather than besmirching the engine of choices of those of us that have decided to go with something OTR (other than Rotax) with little or no basis in fact. Isn't the purpose of this forum to share information, discuss issues and help each other? My own motivation to participate in this forum certainly is founded in this concept.

 

For whatever reason, Jabiru seems to be the forum whippin' boy and it is long past time for it to stop. I and others who have decided to go with the Jabiru don't appreciate the exaggerated disparaging comments about our Jabiru engines any more than those of you who responded to my exaggerated disparaging comments about Rotax engines do. As I said initially, if you have specific issues you would like to discuss regarding the Jabiru 3300 and the Europa, I'm happy to oblige. The Jabiru 3300 is indeed a fine little engine, well suited for use in the Europa. Is it perfect? No, but neither is the Rotax 9XX. I have nothing to hide. I'm happy to share the knowledge I've gained over the past four years of actual, hands on experience with this engine. I'm sure the other Europa/Jabiru owners who read and participate in this forum are likewise happy to share their own experiences. If you have a question, by all means, ask! In any event, if you have no experience with Jabiru engines you would be far better off to keep your unfounded negative commentary and rumor mongering to yourself, rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt. The Rotax owners here who chimed in and responded to my comments clearly expect me to govern myself in regard to my commentary about your Rotax engine, keeping the commentary truthful and above board.. All I am asking is that you do the same when it comes to my Jabiru 3300. 

 

I will now climb down off my soap box. Mission accomplished. (with a little help from my friends)



Regards,



John Lawton

Whitwell, TN (TN89)

N245E - Flying



  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10

What a waste of time. Same for discussing if Apple is better than Microsoft.   

Much better to discuss which tool is best for the job. Let’s stop comparing Apples to Oranges. Or Toyotas to GM.  

Christoph Both  

#223  

   

     

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Lawton

 Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 12:05 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10  

  

   

      	  Quote: 	
		    



 >>>>>>OBTW very well said Mike we are supposed to be fellow aviators!<<<<<<<  	
    



 Hey David, 

 

 What you said here is the very crux of why I responded so forcefully to ongoing, seemingly never ending, unfounded comments about Jabiru <<reliability>> in the first place. Mike's comment echos my own frustration. Those of you who responded to my comments about Rotax did so exactly as I expected you would. You took the bait, hook, line and sinker. 

 

  With the recent series of responses to my commentary regarding Rotax vs. Jabiru it is patently obvious that the Rotax owners here who have chimed in don't appreciate it one bit when I exaggerate failures that have occurred with your Rotax engine. Why then is it acceptable behavior for some here to repeatedly speak disparagingly of the Jabiru, more often than not with no direct experience with the engine? Are we Jabiru owners supposed to just sit here like potted plants and take it? Many here seem to feel unrestrained to criticize my Jabiru, despite the fact that they addmittedly have no practical experience with Jabiru engines. Doesn't it make more sense to educate yourself, rather than perpetuate exaggerated rumors? 

 

 Giles, Mike, and others, understand that I intentionally exaggerated my comments about Rotax engine reliability, knowing full well that my comments would tweek someone into chiming in. Turns out my comments tweeked several folks, exactly as they were intended to do. To each of you who took the bait, I thank you kindly for brilliantly illustrating the very essence of my point. In the southern USA, we call that "hit dog hollers". To quote a more common euphemism, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

 We are indeed supposed to be fellow aviators here. This is why I find the perpetual unfounded negative commentary about Jabiru engine <<reliability>> so distasteful. We've all chosen to build and fly the Europa for our own reasons.  Likewise, we've also each chosen an engine to power our Europas for our own reasons. We all should be encouraging each other and helping each other where we can, rather than besmirching the engine of choices of those of us that have decided to go with something OTR (other than Rotax) with little or no basis in fact. Isn't the purpose of this forum to share information, discuss issues and help each other? My own motivation to participate in this forum certainly is founded in this concept.

 

 For whatever reason, Jabiru seems to be the forum whippin' boy and it is long past time for it to stop. I and others who have decided to go with the Jabiru don't appreciate the exaggerated disparaging comments about our Jabiru engines any more than those of you who responded to my exaggerated disparaging comments about Rotax engines do. As I said initially, if you have specific issues you would like to discuss regarding the Jabiru 3300 and the Europa, I'm happy to oblige. The Jabiru 3300 is indeed a fine little engine, well suited for use in the Europa. Is it perfect? No, but neither is the Rotax 9XX. I have nothing to hide. I'm happy to share the knowledge I've gained over the past four years of actual, hands on experience with this engine. I'm sure the other Europa/Jabiru owners who read and participate in this forum are likewise happy to share their own experiences. If you have a question, by all means, ask! In any event, if you have no experience with Jabiru engines you would be far better off to keep your unfounded negative commentary and rumor mongering to yourself, rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt. The Rotax owners here who chimed in and responded to my comments clearly expect me to govern myself in regard to my commentary about your Rotax engine, keeping the commentary truthful and above board.. All I am asking is that you do the same when it comes to my Jabiru 3300. 

 

 I will now climb down off my soap box. Mission accomplished. (with a little help from my friends)

 

 Regards,

 

 John Lawton

 Whitwell, TN (TN89)

 N245E - Flying

 

   

  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

      [quote][b]

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10

and while we are at it (I mean the Europa list topics),

please let us stop copying into replies the well written but copious

comments from Mike.  I don't need to reread then 10 or 15 times.



Ira

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

_________________
Ira N224XS

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 01/27/10

Christoph,

  

 that is a waste time of course but it is fun to "fight".  Also for some readers /followers.

 It is always possible some one can find a hidden secret  from these debats. 

 R&D centers are monitoring this kind of lists also  and they can find ideas to make things better.

  

 Jabiru or Rotax no matter but I am happy I have not  Lycoming (320 "H" engine) any more.

  

 Raimo

 ex Cessna-owner

  

  

 [quote]   ---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

Cessna´s_forced_landing_place_5.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

103.35 KB

Viewed:

2101 Time(s)

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum