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Eugene Zimmerman
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392
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 Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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Tony,
No they are not identical, but they can be interchangeable. 583
pistons have only one piston ring per piston, and the piston skirt is
configured differently.
Aftermarket parts are less than half price of genuine Rotax, and I
have used them with no problem. But there is a certain level of
personal security that comes with knowing you are using genuine Rotax
parts that "may" be lacking in using the aftermarket parts. I
repeat ,,,,,, "may be", because I have no proof, or negative
experience.
Bore and stroke are identical between Rotax UL582 and 583 Snowmobile.
The only reason for replacing your genuine Rotax Elco pistons is if
they are worn out of tolerance, cracked, scored, or broken. Pistons
can be reused, but all the carbon must be carefully removed,
especially from the ring grooves, being careful not to gall the piston
in the process. Rod bearings are an integral part of the crankshaft
assembly, and your biggest concern should be the proper installation
of "ALL" the cageless piston pin needle bearings, and always using
NEW piston pin clips.
Good luck,
Gene Z
On Jan 28, 2010, at 8:28 AM, albertakolbmk3 wrote:
| Quote: |
>
Where's the best place (cheapest) to buy parts for these engines?
Are these identical to the 583 internally? Can I just buy 583
connecting rod bearings or wrist pins if it needs them? Anything I
should be looking for in particular that is a known problem area for
these engines?
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 83746#283746
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albertakolbmk3
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 69
Location: Innisfail, AB
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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I noticed that the piston ring was stuck in its groove on one side of the piston (both pistons on the same side). I will measure the pistons and see if they are within tolerance. I noticed some scoring on the intake side (possibly ice???) I know the previous owner flew in the winter quite a bit. The cylinder walls look good.
The piston connecting rod bearings I can use off of a 583?
I see ebay they have rebuild kits for the UL582, any good?279.99 for gasket set, pistons, rings.
Where's the best place to buy parts for these?
Thanks,
Tony
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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| albertakolbmk3 wrote: | I noticed that the piston ring was stuck in its groove on one side of the piston (both pistons on the same side). I will measure the pistons and see if they are within tolerance. I noticed some scoring on the intake side (possibly ice???) I know the previous owner flew in the winter quite a bit. The cylinder walls look good.
The piston connecting rod bearings I can use off of a 583?
I see ebay they have rebuild kits for the UL582, any good?279.99 for gasket set, pistons, rings.
Where's the best place to buy parts for these?
Thanks,
Tony |
The rings on the 2-strokes generally start to stick around the 100 hour mark and usually in the vicinity of the gap. But they stay free enough to allow the motor to run normally for a quite a while after that.
But at the 150 hr teardown, it's normal to have at least some sticking of the rings (a piece of old ring is the best tool to clean out the groove, btw. I still have some in my 2-stroke toolset).
Scoring on the pistons indicates mild siezures, probably cold siezure from poor throttle management (lots of idling followed by immediate hammering to wide open and holding it there). Personally, I probably wouldn't put scored pistons back in the engine and would practice good throttle technique on the new ones.
Personally (again), I would never put anything into a 582 that came from an uknown source. It's far cheaper overall to get the OEM parts from a Rotax dealer - the engine is in a known state after that and you're not banging up the plane or worse in engine-out/engine-falter situations....
LS
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_________________
LS
Titan II SS |
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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Here's a 90hp 1.3 suzuki (4 cyl/4stroke) available from the flygeo site:(contact) rdace AT hansoninfosys.com
No decarboning or 300 crankshaft replacement. He's asking $6200 including redrive and some gauges.
BB
On 29, Jan 2010, at 9:34 AM, lucien wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>
albertakolbmk3 wrote:
| Quote: | I noticed that the piston ring was stuck in its groove on one side of the piston (both pistons on the same side). I will measure the pistons and see if they are within tolerance. I noticed some scoring on the intake side (possibly ice???) I know the previous owner flew in the winter quite a bit. The cylinder walls look good.
The piston connecting rod bearings I can use off of a 583?
I see ebay they have rebuild kits for the UL582, any good?279.99 for gasket set, pistons, rings.
Where's the best place to buy parts for these?
Thanks,
Tony
|
The rings on the 2-strokes generally start to stick around the 100 hour mark and usually in the vicinity of the gap. But they stay free enough to allow the motor to run normally for a quite a while after that.
But at the 150 hr teardown, it's normal to have at least some sticking of the rings (a piece of old ring is the best tool to clean out the groove, btw. I still have some in my 2-stroke toolset).
Scoring on the pistons indicates mild siezures, probably cold siezure from poor throttle management (lots of idling followed by immediate hammering to wide open and holding it there). Personally, I probably wouldn't put scored pistons back in the engine and would practice good throttle technique on the new ones.
Personally (again), I would never put anything into a 582 that came from an uknown source. It's far cheaper overall to get the OEM parts from a Rotax dealer - the engine is in a known state after that and you're not banging up the plane or worse in engine-out/engine-falter situations....
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=283905#283905
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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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Robert
I'm not the #1 fan of Rotax but isn't that 4 cyl Suzuki kind of heavy?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
[quote] ---
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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According to builder legend it weighs somewhere around 15 lbs more than the 3 cyl.If so, then carefully built, it would be about 155-160.
I overlooked the fact that the engine combo I suggested was for a tractor installation and the redrive
may have a too high thrust line. Some major butchering of the upper tier of your MkIII may be necessary.
With the G10 on my Kolb, since I made no airframe mods, I could pop it off and install any factory-ready
engine like a 912 in short order.
BB
On 29, Jan 2010, at 12:20 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
[quote]Robert
I'm not the #1 fan of Rotax but isn't that 4 cyl Suzuki kind of heavy?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
[quote]---
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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Bob and Rick N. C Kolb guys C
In my opinion C I think the 160 lbs idea for the 1.3L GEO is more than optimistic. When you add things like a radiator C coolant C hoses C redrive C and such C I'd bet you're a lot closer to 190-200 lbs for the 1.3L GEO. Maybe I'm wrong on the true total weight C but I bet the complete package comes in closer to 200 lbs than 160. Just my opinion.
In my experience C the person who chooses to go with a Suzuki engine combo is NOT doing it because of the weight. More than likely C he/she is not anal about the engine weight C but prefers the low fuel consumption C 4 cycle engine dependability C inexpensive rebuild C lower purchase price C etc C along with other factors.
As discussed before C an auto conversion engine is not for everyone. Some people are more comfortable with what they feel is a "real" airplane engine. That's understandable C because they do get to make their decision for themselves C after all.
But C for those that do decide to go with either a GEO C VW C BMW C Yamaha C Subaru C and a list of others C there are countless hundreds C maybe thousands of pilots that have hundreds of hours of dependable service from their machines. A dependable C fuel efficient auto engine conversion is a choice some builders ought to consider.
One more thing...... For some builders (some!!) C if they had to wait until they had the money to buy a new Rotax 912 C plus shell out 12 grand for a kit C they just wouldn't ever get to build a plane. Although some of these auto engine conversions aren't exactly cheap C many can be had for around $7-8 C000. This price allows the possibilty of building a plane to a lot of people. For many C it's either this C or nothing.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
From: slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Subject: Re: Re: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons
Date: Fri C 29 Jan 2010 12:51:41 -0500
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
According to builder legend it weighs somewhere around 15 lbs more than the 3 cyl. If so C then carefully built C it would be about 155-160.
I overlooked the fact that the engine combo I suggested was for a tractor installation and the redrive
may have a too high thrust line. Some major butchering of the upper tier of your MkIII may be necessary.
With the G10 on my Kolb C since I made no airframe mods C I could pop it off and install any factory-ready
engine like a 912 in short order.
BB
On 29 C Jan 2010 C at 12:20 PM C Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
[quote] Robert
I'm not the #1 fan of Rotax but isn't that 4 cyl Suzuki kind of heavy?
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
[quote] ---
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: Rotax 582 cylinder head & Pistons |
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Hi Gang:
Rick Neilsen does not like Rotax, period. If you do not believe me ask him. He is a VW guy through and through. He wouldn't fly with a 912ULS if Rotax gave it to him, delivered and installed, with a little hug and a kiss to go with it.
However, you would not have believed the reaction I got from Rick when he flew with me out of Goulding's mile high airstrip at Monument Valley last year, or a couple a years ago. Even though he is not a #1 fan of Rotax, he sure had a big grin on his mug when we took off and climbed steeply out of Gouding's. Not hard for me to tell when someone is surprised and a little impressed. I may be wrong, but it won't be the first time, or the last, I am sure of that.
Being a flat land furriner, I was a little impressed with the little MKIII myself. 
Anxious to get ready and fly to Monument Valley this May.
john hauck
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
[quote]
| Quote: | I'm not the #1 fan of Rotax but isn't that 4 cyl Suzuki kind of heavy?
Rick Neilsen
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[b]
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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