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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

Hi Gang:



Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we 

pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange 

sealant.



I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.  It 

is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I



Can anyone help me out?  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get 

serious about flying this year.



Thanks,



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

from a quick google looks like $40 a tube.  Loctite makes good stuff.  Cure time is at least 7 days with this product.

Have to mow the lawn or clean the house meanwhile.  

BB

dog walked,  old gas tanks soon to be pulled for the swirch.  Bowling tomorrow.

On 31, Jan 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Gang:

 

 Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange sealant.

 

 I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.  It is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I

 

 Can anyone help me out?  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get serious about flying this year.

 

 Thanks,

 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:55 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

john You might look for Honda Bond or Yama bond I think there the same stuff for that type of job

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

I asked Ronnie Smith about using Hondabond and  Yamabond when the engine was still in warranty with a slight oil leak between  the gearbox and engine case.  He said we needed to stick to what Rotax  recommended to keep the warranty valid.

  

 I used Hondabond and Yamabond on motorcycle cases  with perfect success.  It is worth a try now that the warranty has expired,  to use either  bike sealer than spend 50.00 for the Loctite 5910.  I  believe it would probably do a better job.  Not that difficult or time  consuming to R&R the gear box.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 [quote]    

john You might look for Honda Bond or Yama    bond I think there the same stuff for that type of job



      Ellery Batchelder    Jr.



 [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

John..  



I don't know bout the locktite 



But Yamaha makes a case joining compound  that I used on a snowmobile

engine.  I may still have some if it has not gone bad,   or you could check

your Yamaha shop.



Boyd

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>.....


	




Hi Gang:



Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we 

pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange 

sealant.



I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.  It 

is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I



Can anyone help me out?  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get 

serious about flying this year.



Thanks,



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Loctite 5910 Black

What's wrong with Loctite 574 (orange)? I've used that on every 912 gearbox I've inspected, per instructions current at the time. Never had a leak or any other problem with it.



Maybe mighty Rotax is colluding with Loctite to find more ways to make Rotax maintenance more expensive for owners and profitable for them.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

John

I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in  

CONUS?

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi Gang:



 Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time  

 we pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended  

 gearbox flange sealant.



 I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of  

 5910.  It is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I



 Can anyone help me out?  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I  

 get serious about flying this year.



 Thanks,



 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:42 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

You can get Loctite 5910 from McMaster Carr, Part Number:  1832A11                      $53.62 each. Yikes! 



Rick Girard

 

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:07 AM, russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com (russkinne(at)mac.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com (russkinne(at)mac.com)>

 

 John

 I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?

 do not archive

 

 On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 Hi Gang:

 

 Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange sealant.

 

 I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.  It is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I

 

 Can anyone help me out?  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get serious about flying this year.

 

 Thanks,

 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

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 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in 

 CONUS?


	




It would still cost me more than I want to pay, and a lot would go to waste 

because of the large size of the container.



I will reseal with either Yamabond or Hondabond, I have both in the shop, or 

maybe a new product I recently obtained.



This new product is called, "Permatex The Right Stuff" Item #85224.  It is 

an elasometric rubber gasket maker.  I don't know how well it would work as 

a flange sealant.  The only way to find out would be to take the time to 

pull the gear box and try it.  I can go to their web site and pull up more 

detailed info on its applications.



I've got a feeling that the motorcycle sealant will do the job, based on 

success with it over the years.  Sealing motorcycle engine cases is very 

similar to sealing the Rotax gear box flanges to the engine cases.  MEK cuts 

it, if I remember correctly.   So, next time around after using, MEK will 

make the job of clean up and prep a lot easier.



Gear box pressure is the same as crank case pressure, 3 to 5 psi, if I 

remember correctly.  That's not much.



Removal and replacement is not difficult.  I remove the prop and all the 

bolts in the gear box.  I do not have a Rotax gear box puller, but a block 

of soft 2X4 and a large ball peen hammer break the seal between the gear box 

and engine case fairly easy.  I have forgotten the bolt torque, there are 

two different size bolts, but a quick call to Ronnie Smith will provide 

those, or I can break down and look it up in the manuals.



That job will have to wait until the weather gets a little warmer though.  A 

good time to do it is in conjunction with an oil change.  I just changed the 

oil an hour ago.  How's that for putting off the repair?



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:09 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

That with or without shipping?   

  

 For one R&R reseal......I'd probably use 25  cents worth.

  

 Undecided about the Permatex "Right Stuff" until I  do some research.

  

 Confident the Yamabond or Hondabond will do the  trick.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 titus, alabama

  

  

 [quote]    

You can get Loctite 5910 from    McMaster Carr, Part    Number:  1832A11                         $53.62 each. Yikes!   



   Rick  Girard

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:45 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

They've never offered me free shipping in the 20+ years I've been buying from them, so I'm guessing that's without. As for the right stuff, without going to the specs and just going by the applications listed it seems to have the same uses as Ultra Black. For high temps good old Ultra Copper is hard to beat. 



Rick



On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:07 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]        That with or without shipping?   

  

 For one R&R reseal......I'd probably use 25  cents worth.

  

 Undecided about the Permatex "Right Stuff" until I  do some research.

  

 Confident the Yamabond or Hondabond will do the  trick.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 titus, alabama

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      

You can get Loctite 5910 from    McMaster Carr, Part    Number:  1832A11                         $53.62 each. Yikes!   



   Rick  Girard

 





get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:46 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

John, Yeah, pricey stuff for a one time application. I used Hylomar sealant for my Harley. Loctite is made by a German company (Henkel) but their U.K. division publishes PDF's of their products



http://www.henkel.fi/fis/content_data/96621_Silicone_Leaflet_1.0_1.0.pdf

 



[url=http://www.henkel.fi/fis/content_data/96621_Silicone_Leaflet_1.0_1.0.pdf][/url]as well as MSDS data. With the MSDS you could probably make a reasonable deduction about what Honda or Yamaha sealant product would coincide. Notice in the PDF above that Henkel shows that 5910 is available in smaller tubes than the giant industrial size. The 80 mil is the size of the tubes sold in auto parts stores in the $5 to $6 range. Permetex Blue is used for the same applications and it's only $5.49 a tube at O'Reilly's.

 As for torque apecs, the last section of the 912 IPC has the torque specs for every screw uses in Rotax engines.

Rick Girard



On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

  

 

 

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com (russkinne(at)mac.com)>

 



 I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?

 

	
 

 

 It would still cost me more than I want to pay, and a lot would go to waste because of the large size of the container.

 

 I will reseal with either Yamabond or Hondabond, I have both in the shop, or maybe a new product I recently obtained.

 

 This new product is called, "Permatex The Right Stuff" Item #85224.  It is an elasometric rubber gasket maker.  I don't know how well it would work as a flange sealant.  The only way to find out would be to take the time to pull the gear box and try it.  I can go to their web site and pull up more detailed info on its applications.

  

 I've got a feeling that the motorcycle sealant will do the job, based on success with it over the years.  Sealing motorcycle engine cases is very similar to sealing the Rotax gear box flanges to the engine cases.  MEK cuts it, if I remember correctly.   So, next time around after using, MEK will make the job of clean up and prep a lot easier.

  

 Gear box pressure is the same as crank case pressure, 3 to 5 psi, if I remember correctly.  That's not much.

 

 Removal and replacement is not difficult.  I remove the prop and all the bolts in the gear box.  I do not have a Rotax gear box puller, but a block of soft 2X4 and a large ball peen hammer break the seal between the gear box and engine case fairly easy.  I have forgotten the bolt torque, there are two different size bolts, but a quick call to Ronnie Smith will provide those, or I can break down and look it up in the manuals.

  

 That job will have to wait until the weather gets a little warmer though.  A good time to do it is in conjunction with an oil change.  I just changed the oil an hour ago.  How's that for putting off the repair? 



 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:33 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

Hi Russ,

  

 Not into the various grades of Loctite and a long way from home at the moment.

  

 I am sure that a post to the British Microlihjt Association website with an ask for help someone would give you a steer.

  

 Made it to the Bay of Islands 2 days ago after good time in Cambodia and Laos.Pretty much bushed at the moment as I have had to get the cushions for the sunbeds

and lay them out on the deck which surrounds the bungalow. Sea is about 20ft5. away. Nice gentle waves. Weather warm wind 5knots. .I think I will get a beer.

  

 Pat 

  

 -- On Mon, 1/2/10, russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>

Subject: Re: Loctite 5910 Black

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, 1 February, 2010, 14:07



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: russ kinne <russkinne(at)mac.com>



John

I wonder if Pat Ladd couldn't get you some if it's not available in CONUS?

do not archive



On Jan 31, 2010, at 4:16 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 

 Hi Gang:

 

 Ronnie Smith used Loctite 5910, black, to seal my gearbox last time we pulled it.  This is supposed to be the new Rotax recommended gearbox flange sealant.

 

 I have tried several times to find a source for a small amount of 5910.  It is popular in Europe, but not in the US.  I

 

 Can anyone help me out?  I would like  to reseal my gearbox before I get serious about flying this year.

 

 Thanks,

 

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, A/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>httpe via the Web .matronics.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com                     &nbsf="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" rel=nofollow target=_blank>=


	




	




 [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Loctite 5910 Black

Hi John H,

Permatex "The Right Stuff" is just like 5910 and you can't tell the difference. It works very well. You can pick it up at any automotive store. It works well for the gearbox. Loctite 574, 5910 and "The right stuff" works for pesky oozing valve covers. First pick for oozing covers is 574. Have talked with Eric Tucker and 574 or 5910 is ok for valve covers that have a a leak problem.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

> Permatex "The Right Stuff" is just like 5910 and you can't tell the 

difference. It works very well. You can pick it up at any automotive store. 

It works well for the gearbox. Loctite 574, 5910 and "The right stuff" works 

for pesky oozing valve covers. First pick for oozing covers is 574. Have 

talked with Eric Tucker and 574 or 5910 is ok for valve covers that have a a 

leak problem.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 --------

 Roger Lee


	


I bought a can recently to make valve cover gaskets for my antique tractors. 

Gaskets, for them, are hard to find, and when you do find them they are 

expensive.  Everything I have read about The Right Stuff indicates it does a 

real good job, especially replacing valve cover gaskets.



The Right Stuff looks like it will be easier to clean and prep the gear box 

flanges after I use it the first time on the 912ULS gear box, than either 

Yamabond or Hondabond.



I'm sure Yamabond and Hondabond would do the job, but probably more work to 

clean and prep.



The 5910 held for a hundred hours or so, but it is oozing again.  There may 

have been some oil residue on the flanges when it was reinstalled.  I like 

to let the engine sit with the gear box off at least overnight to let as 

much oil drain out of the crankcase and the crankshaft as I can.  We did a 

quick turn around to replace last time.



Soon as it warms up, I'll "get'er done" and get ready to do some serious 

flying.  Planning on wandering around Florida in the mkIII sometimes after 

the middle of February, if the weather gets right.  Probably go down one 

side and back up the other, after visiting Key West once again.



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:55 am Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

Would that be the local Lion red. You will be the  center of attraction in Russel next week. Waitangi day Saturday. You are in a  good place to see how well we all get on in this country. As you probablt know  Waitangi is gust across the bay from you. It is a lovely place .Enjoy your  visit. to keep it Kolb related ,I headed off into the wild blue yonder on Sunday  in the MK111c ,15 minutes later I had had enough of up ,down, side ways so  returned to tera fima , went home and had a beer or two . Lots of thermal  activity, plus they just made my local airport a mandatory radio operation,I  have been flying inaudo from there for close on15 years and radio was playing  up. Thought I had better play by the rules since they are new.

 Downunder

 Mk111c

 safe flying

 Regards

            Tony     

 [quote]   ---

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

<<  I would like to reseal my gearbox before I get serious about flying this year.  Thanks, john hauck  >>  

   

John –  

   

Why do you have to reseal your gearbox?  

Is it leaking, or is this a documented item of 912 maintenance?  

   

Dennis Kirby  

      [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

This engine has always had an tiny ooze, first at  8'clock and now at 4'clock.  The 518 did not last, the 5910 lasted a little  longer, and maybe some of these new sealers/gasket makers will get the job  done.  The casting in the area of the flanges on the gear box and engine  cases are not perfect, looks like it may have had an inperfection in the area of  the leak.  One that slipped past the inspectors.  Nothing serious,  just a little oil on the engine type of thing that is not normal on a 912.   I get more oil on the engine from the crankcase breather than I do from the  leak.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 titus, alabama

 [quote]   ---

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

John, If the gearbox leaks at 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock, I recommend you fly it at 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock.



Rick Girard



On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:45 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]       This engine has always had an tiny ooze, first at  8'clock and now at 4'clock.  The 518 did not last, the 5910 lasted a little  longer, and maybe some of these new sealers/gasket makers will get the job  done.  The casting in the area of the flanges on the gear box and engine  cases are not perfect, looks like it may have had an inperfection in the area of  the leak.  One that slipped past the inspectors.  Nothing serious,  just a little oil on the engine type of thing that is not normal on a 912.   I get more oil on the engine from the crankcase breather than I do from the  leak.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 titus, alabama

 [quote]   ---

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:21 pm Post subject: Loctite 5910 Black

Thanks.  If that will stop the leak, I  will.

  

 john hauck

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 [quote]    

John, If the gearbox leaks at 4    o'clock and 8 o'clock, I recommend you fly it at 2 o'clock and 6 o'clock.   



   Rick Girard

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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