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Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:27 am Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

I have just finished installing the counter balance upgrade and the LAA  measurements will not work as printed. If you lay out the new ribs to the 327.3  the counter balance weights will not clear the lower wingtip and will hang out  of the wingtip if you install the weights on the outboard side of the square  tube.



The plans don't show this but the fix is either move the ribs 200  mm inboard or making the ribs 90 degrees of the hinge line.



for those of  you that have already rivited them as to the drawings you will have to install  all but one of your weights inboard and one of the thin weights outboard to keep  the tube from crushing.



Have Fun 

  [quote][b]

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davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

I agree it could be to close.

  

 I have finished my aileron upgrade and took them out to trial fit them  today.  The distance that I used was 320 mm due to existing holes that I  had.  

 They fit fine,  with the ailerons clamped in the neutral position, I  measured 85 mm above the top end of the bar to the top skin and 85 mm below the  bottom end of the bar to the bottom skin.  Lateral clearance from the  outboard face of the distal end of the bar to the beginning of the slanted  wingtip skin on the bottom was 40 mm.

 The 97 degree angle for the bar apears to be correct.

  

 Still

 I would have moved the installation inbound to the 300mm mark which would  put the impact area of the weights better centered over the skin protection  plates.

  

  

 Gary Ray

 davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

  

  

 [quote]   ---

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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

Thanks Gary so to recap . 

  

 If you used 300 mm and only had 40 mm side clearance then 327 would only  give you 13 mm side clearance which on the aileron without the trim tab might  work but the aileron with the trim requires much more weight and 40 mm will not  be enough because you will hit the rivets. I think the balance weight arm should  be 127 mm from the first rib and that would clear up any misalignment.

  

 Also was the 40 mm with weight or just the arm?

  

 Jeff

  

  In a message dated 2/3/2010 7:03:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  davgray(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

 [quote]   I agree it could be to close.

    

   I have finished my aileron upgrade and took them out to trial fit them    today.  The distance that I used was 320 mm due to existing holes that I    had.  

   They fit fine,  with the ailerons clamped in the neutral position, I    measured 85 mm above the top end of the bar to the top skin and 85 mm below    the bottom end of the bar to the bottom skin.  Lateral clearance from the    outboard face of the distal end of the bar to the beginning of the    slanted wingtip skin on the bottom was 40 mm.

   The 97 degree angle for the bar apears to be correct.

    

   Still

   I would have moved the installation inbound to the 300mm mark which would    put the impact area of the weights better centered over the skin protection    plates.

    

    

   Gary Ray

   davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

    

    

   [quote]     ---

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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

sorry 320 mm so that would give you 33 mm 

  

  In a message dated 2/3/2010 8:25:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  Afterfxllc(at)aol.com writes:

 [quote]   Thanks Gary so to recap . 

    

   If you used 300 mm and only had 40 mm side clearance then 327 would only    give you 13 mm side clearance which on the aileron without the trim tab might    work but the aileron with the trim requires much more weight and 40 mm will    not be enough because you will hit the rivets. I think the balance weight arm    should be 127 mm from the first rib and that would clear up any    misalignment.

    

   Also was the 40 mm with weight or just the arm?

    

   Jeff

    

      In a message dated 2/3/2010 7:03:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,    davgray(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

   [quote]     I agree it could be to close.

      

     I have finished my aileron upgrade and took them out to trial fit them      today.  The distance that I used was 320 mm due to existing holes that      I had.  

     They fit fine,  with the ailerons clamped in the neutral position,      I measured 85 mm above the top end of the bar to the top skin and 85 mm      below the bottom end of the bar to the bottom skin.  Lateral clearance      from the outboard face of the distal end of the bar to the beginning of      the slanted wingtip skin on the bottom was 40 mm.

     The 97 degree angle for the bar apears to be correct.

      

     Still

     I would have moved the installation inbound to the 300mm mark which      would put the impact area of the weights better centered over the skin      protection plates.

      

      

     Gary Ray

     davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

      

      

     [quote]       ---

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purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

It wouldn't b a bad idea for you guy's to think about putting a inspection hole in the tipso you can get the weights off if you want to remove the aleron with out drilling the wing skin again,also would be nice to look in there durning a annual insp. . Were having a good time doing this,lots of fellow ship and fun all around. we work about 6 to 7 hr. every day fly a hr. or two then work some more.I've used this refitto do some changes like adding  a aleron trim ,design a new paint color paint and design.,

plus build a different console and interior. another thing I'am going to do is pop the top off the back and stiffen up the sides of the  plane ,Zenith said that helps alot with the oil canning noise ,they do that on all of the 650 as Oh ! going to put a access door in the  bottom of the plane just behind the seats ,will make it a lot easier to get to the cables,long as I'am here might as well do the changes and  make a much better air craft look's like I'am going to have it for a long time. I'de like to thank Zenith for the great job  there doin getting these kits out so fast and supplying us with the parts we need to do this fix.   Can you belive that only 85% of the 601 Xl are fixing there aircraft,That is sad. If we have any more wing failure's we'll know who fixed and who didn't.Hope you guy's are having as much fun as I am If I can be any help let me know. got to go we start early every day .FLY SAFE             Joe N101HD  601XL /RAM 

   From: Gary Ray <davgray(at)sbcglobal.net>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, February 3, 2010 3:09:18 PM

Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

   I agree it could be to close.

 I have finished my aileron upgrade and took them out to trial fit them today.  The distance that I used was 320 mm due to existing holes that I had.  

 They fit fine,  with the ailerons clamped in the neutral position, I measured 85 mm above the top end of the bar to the top skin and 85 mm below the bottom end of the bar to the bottom skin.  Lateral clearance from the outboard face of the distal end of the bar to the beginning of the slanted wingtip skin on the bottom was 40 mm.

 The 97 degree angle for the bar apears to be correct.

 Still

 I would have moved the installation inbound to the 300mm mark which would put the impact area of the weights better centered over the skin protection plates.

 Gary Ray

 davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

 [quote] ---

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davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

Jeff

 The 40 mm clearance is without any weights.  Measured laterally from  the outboard face of the bar to the start of the wingtip slant of the bottom  skin.  So if I had choosen 300 mm I would have had 60mm.  I  did this work without having the wings available for reference.   Seemed a better idea at the time due to 9 degree weather in Michigan.

 I would definitely recommend everybody double check the clearance before  going with the call out in the plans.  It is better than 27 new useless  holes in your ailerons.

 Another possible interference is with the top skin anti oil-canning  L-angles.

  

 Gary Ray

 davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

  

 [quote]   ---

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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

Gary

  

 I think your weights will be more than 40 mm... I would measure mine but  the wing is closed now. I do know that the wing with the trim is more than 40  mm. another concern is the weights hitting the rivet row in the lower skin I  hope it works out for you I wish I had moved it in board a bit.

  

 Jeff

  

  In a message dated 2/3/2010 10:29:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  davgray(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

 [quote]   Jeff

   The 40 mm clearance is without any weights.  Measured laterally from    the outboard face of the bar to the start of the wingtip slant of the bottom    skin.  So if I had choosen 300 mm I would have had 60mm.  I    did this work without having the wings available for reference.     Seemed a better idea at the time due to 9 degree weather in    Michigan.

   I would definitely recommend everybody double check the clearance before    going with the call out in the plans.  It is better than 27 new useless    holes in your ailerons.

   Another possible interference is with the top skin anti oil-canning    L-angles.

    

   Gary Ray

   davgray(at)sbcglobal.net (davgray(at)sbcglobal.net)

    

   [quote]     ---

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ben52425(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:43 am Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

JEFF IF YOU DO NEED MORE ROOM RODGER SAID THE ROD CAN BE BENT

                                                                     BEN

 

  

 

 

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4RCSIMMONS(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: Counter balance snag in the LAA drawings

Are there other folks who have completed the upgrade in this Counter balance area that also had a problem using the supplied values?



If so, what were the values you used?



If I am reading this stuff correctly, the values used are measure from the "center line" to "center line" and is 327.



I get my kit around the end of the month. I am just listening! 



Rich Simmons

601XL Hope to fly mid 2011

 



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