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4130 steel and rockwell hardness

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Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Hello all,



I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.



My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend.  I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes.



I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for different rockwell c hardnesses.



Regards

Jason

MKIII

Portland Oregon

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 

49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears 

out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact 

but will bend.  I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c 

scale makes.



I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for 

different rockwell c hardnesses.



Regards

Jason

Jason/Gang:



I don't have  a chart.



48 Rockwell was the number I came up with many years ago after experimenting 

with my first gear legs at 42 RC, which was what Maxair was using on their 

4130 gear legs.  These were way too soft.  Those were the first 4130 heat 

treated legs on a Kolb, 1987.



I think you will be in the ball park to bend and not break.



1.8 to 1.9 is not that much harder.  Will probably make a better spring.



If it was my gear legs I would not be worried about them breaking.



I bent two of my gear legs at Mucho Lake, BC, in 2000, both 90 degrees 

without breaking.  I think my legs came out to 49 RC or close to it.



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

At 08:10 PM 2/22/2010, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.



 My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend.  I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes.



 I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for different rockwell c hardnesses. 	


 49.9 is 253 ksi.  48 is 237 ksi



 http://www.unified-eng.com/scitech/hardness/hardness.html



 If you search for MIL-HDBK-5, it contains this and much more materials information (it can be downloaded as a pdf, but I don't have time to find the link).



 -Dana

 --

  Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.    [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Jason,

  

   If your steel gear was tested by the heat treater, and it came out to be 49.9 RH, then that's pretty darn close!!

  

   My absolute favorite class in college was my Engineering Materials class!!  Now, THAT class was just plain fun!!  We stretched steel rods until they broke, we heat treated metals to check their Rockwell hardness, before and after.  We crushed 2" x 2" wooden blocks in a big press to determine their resistance to collapse.  We did all kinds of neat science lab tests to investigate all kinds of materials.  Heating metals and testing them was part of the lab work.  It was also fun.

  

   Like I said, I tested some steel samples for their Rockwell Hardness properties.  Simple test, too.  You slam a little tiny super hard steel ball against a surface (from the testing rig).  You then measure the dent diameter and determine on the Rockwell Scale what the hardness is.  Soft metals give big dents.  Spring steel gives almost no dent.

  

   If your steel legs came back at 49.9, then I'd personally relax, and not worry about it.

 I can't recall the exact numbers for spring steel, but it is a "range", like 42 RH to 65 RH.

 1.9 is not much of a deviation.

  

   Besides, Rockwell 48 is only an educated guess at what the best treatment is for the gear legs, anyway.  It could have just as easily Rockwell 50.  There is, undoubtedly, a "range" of hardness that will work just fine!!

  

   In my opinion, you've got a set of mighty fine gear legs.  Don't worry about 'em.  Unless, of course, you still have any holes to drill.  In that case, worry!

  

 Best regards,

 Mike Welch

 MkIII 

  

   

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

 From: jason(at)trek-tech.com

 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:10:11 -0800

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason(at)trek-tech.com>

 

 Hello all,

 

 I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.

 

 My dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9. I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful gears out there. The goal is to have a spring that will not break on hard impact but will bend. I have no idea how much different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes.

 

 I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for different rockwell c hardnesses.

 

 Regards

 Jason

 MKIII

 Portland Oregon

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731

 

&gt===
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 		 	   		  Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. Get it now.

Jason Omelchuck

Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Thanks for the quick reply guys.  



Tomorrow I fly!



Jason

MKIII

Portland, OR

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Jason & kolb gang



I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs.   

The  last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to in  

New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their  

oven. I've checked with five different  metal treating  outfits and  

they all gave me the same answer.  They must all be using the same  

heat treating equipment.



Gene Z

On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Hello all,



 I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me  

 the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.



 My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at  

 RC 49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the  

 successful gears out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will  

 not break on hard impact but will bend.  I have no idea how much  

 different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes.



 I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for  

 different rockwell c hardnesses.



 Regards

 Jason

 MKIII

 Portland Oregon





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:42 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Hi Jason,



If will call Travis at Kolb He can tell you everything you need to  

know , He helped me when I had to get the CM tubes heat treated for my  

firestar gear legs.

Great folks at TNK can't say enough good things about them.



Frank Goodnight

Firestar 2

HKS

Brownsville , TX





On Feb 22, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jason & kolb gang



 I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs.   

 The  last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to  

 in New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their  

 oven. I've checked with five different  metal treating  outfits and  

 they all gave me the same answer.  They must all be using the same  

 heat treating equipment.



 Gene Z

 On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote:



> 

> >

>

> Hello all,

>

> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives  

> me the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.

>

> My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater  

> at RC 49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the  

> successful gears out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will  

> not break on hard impact but will bend.  I have no idea how much  

> different 1.9 on the rockwell c scale makes.

>

> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties  

> for different rockwell c hardnesses.

>

> Regards

> Jason

> MKIII

> Portland Oregon

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731

>

>

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs.



Gene Z



 Gene/Gang:



Check out a local truck spring company.  Find out where they get their 

springs done.  Might be able to get a lead on a heat treater for over 36".



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

> Jason & kolb gang

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs. 

 

 Gene Z

  
	


 Gene,

  

   Did you give those folks a call at Industrial Heat Treat in Salt Lake City?  They did

 mine, and the 36-37" length didn't seem to be a problem.

  

 Mike Welch

  

 I'll measure my gear legs the best I can, since they are installed, but I can't see why they can do mine, and not yours.  I'll get back to you........



 		 	   		  Your E-mail and More On-the-Go469229/direct/01/' target='_new'>Sign up now.  [quote][b]

pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:22 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Eugene Zimmerman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Jason & kolb gang

 

 I'm still looking for a heat treater to do my three foot gear legs.  

 The  last place I checked was the company that John H pointed me to in 

 New Jersey and they also told me three foot is too long for their oven. 

 I've checked with five different  metal treating  outfits and they all 

 gave me the same answer.  They must all be using the same heat treating 

 equipment.

 

 Gene Z

 

 

 

 

 

 

 On Feb 22, 2010, at 8:10 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote:

 

> 

>

> Hello all,

>

> I have searched the web, and I cannot find the a table that gives me 

> the properties for 4130 in different hardnesses.

>

> My  dilemma is that my steel gear came back from the heat treater at 

> RC 49.8 to RC 49.9.  I had asked them for RC48 like all the successful 

> gears out there.  The goal is to have a spring that will not break on 

> hard impact but will bend.  I have no idea how much different 1.9 on 

> the rockwell c scale makes.

>

> I would love to find a chart for 4130 that states the properties for 

> different rockwell c hardnesses.

>

> Regards

> Jason

> MKIII

> Portland Oregon

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287731#287731

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 

 

Gene, Are you telling them these are landing gear legs for a
	


  aircraft. Maybe their oven gets smaller due to liability.



JacK C. FSII Ohio

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Kolb friends,



Whoopee! 

I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house.



They said it would be a  2 to 3 day turnaround.   

They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait.



I want to  thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Wouldn't you know it....  I was shopping at  my favorite place today 

and found a heat treat furnace...It was discarded from a trade 

school....Electric...and lined with fire brick..



   so...there is a likely a furnace in many trade schools around the 

country.. This one came from one of the state of Tenn trade 

schools... and  could be bought for about 15 cents a pound....



   My favorite "trickle down" shopping place is the local salvage 

yard..   But I still get my rib reinforcing tape at a sewing 

shop..    Herb



At 04:42 PM 2/23/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Kolb friends,



Whoopee!

I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal 

Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes 

from my house.



They said it would be a  2 to 3 day turnaround.

They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no 

freight and no wait.



I want to  thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to 

help me find a heat treater.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887





Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

02/23/10 07:34:00

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Eugene Z landing this coming summer:  boing  boing boing .  ahh now I got it!

BB

do not archive



On 23, Feb 2010, at 5:42 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Kolb friends,

 

 Whoopee! 

 I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house.

 

 They said it would be a  2 to 3 day turnaround.   

 They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait.

 

 I want to  thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

Bob,

LOL   "boing  boing boing ."  eh?

Well, spring steel gear won't be nearly as springy as what I have now.

The only reason I'm changing to steel is because FIBERGLASS is not  

torsionally stiff enough to maintain  precise wheel alignment.

This makes for some really squirrelly ground roll at times.

Been using fiberglass for years but the time has come for me for  

something more tame and docile.

Hate to add the extra weight of steel however.

Gene Z

On Feb 23, 2010, at 6:17 PM, robert bean wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Eugene Z landing this coming summer:  boing  boing boing .  ahh now  

 I got it!

 BB

 do not archive

 On 23, Feb 2010, at 5:42 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:

> 

> <etzimm(at)gmail.com>

>

> Kolb friends,

>

> Whoopee!

> I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal  

> Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes  

> from my house.

>

> They said it would be a  2 to 3 day turnaround.

> They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no  

> freight and no wait.

>

> I want to  thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to  

> help me find a heat treater.

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887

>

>

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

I compared the weights when I installed the steel legs and they do weigh slightly more than the aluminum too.

BB

On 23, Feb 2010, at 9:45 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Bob,

 LOL   "boing  boing boing ."  eh?

 Well, spring steel gear won't be nearly as springy as what I have now.

 The only reason I'm changing to steel is because FIBERGLASS is not torsionally stiff enough to maintain  precise wheel alignment.

 This makes for some really squirrelly ground roll at times.

 Been using fiberglass for years but the time has come for me for something more tame and docile.

 Hate to add the extra weight of steel however.

 Gene Z

 On Feb 23, 2010, at 6:17 PM, robert bean wrote:

> 

> 

> Eugene Z landing this coming summer:  boing  boing boing .  ahh now I got it!

> BB

> do not archive

> 

> On 23, Feb 2010, at 5:42 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Kolb friends,

>> 

>> Whoopee!

>> I just got back home from delivering my 4130 legs to "Metal Improvement Company" (MIC) in Emigsville Pa, less that 40 minutes from my house.

>> 

>> They said it would be a  2 to 3 day turnaround.

>> They have $140. minimum charge however, but what the heck, no freight and no wait.

>> 

>> I want to  thank all you guys for your suggestions and attempts to help me find a heat treater.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=287887#287887

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: 4130 steel and rockwell hardness

I compared the weights when I installed the steel legs and they do weigh 

slightly more than the aluminum too.

BB



Bob B/Gang:



In 1991, at Homer's, during fabrication of my mkIII, we compared our "hauck 

MKIII landing gear" with stock aluminum MKIII main gear.  Our gear weight 

included the gear leg mounts and gear legs.  We came out lighter than the 

standard aluminum gear, but memory of amount is long gone.  My gear legs are 

24" long with 6" inserted in the gear leg sockets.



john hauck

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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