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psm(at)att.net
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 Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni |
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Ok, Mathieu.
You inspired me to really think about this whole situation. I posted a long
comment on Zenith.aero, and here is a copy for anyone who doesn't use that
web site.
Best regards,
Paul
================================
Mathieu,
First let me say I appreciate the openness of this whole discussion. I am
hopeful we will eventually reach a level of comfort with the Zodiac design
that has been sorely lacking for years.
After reading the FAA report (at least the parts I could understand) and
reading the comments on this Q&A I'm afraid we are almost back where we
started last year when the NTSB letter came out. It seems you are saying all
is well and the government is saying there is need for major further effort
and potential changes. The FAA report calls for many additional tests and
you are saying the stuff submitted months before the report was written
takes care of all the needs.
I realize there are a lot of expensive things under discussion. These are
not only expensive for Zenair/Zenith/AMD they are also expensive for every
builder/owner of this design. The government has a significant interest in
seeing this question reach a happy conclusion. I suspect there are many
owners who feel like I do that the costs involved in further testing and
analysis should not prevent having them take place. We are all in this
together.
As an owner, I stand to lose the investment I have already made in this
plane. However, I would rather scrap it than take undue risk flying it when
it needs further evaluation and possible improvement. Unfortunately, I don't
have the knowledge or resources to take the further steps by myself. I would
certainly consider contributing a share of the funds needed to get this
design to the level needed for all of us to sleep well at night
I think the next step should be an open discussion with all the parties to
this fiasco present. This should include representatives from the NTSB, FAA,
Zenith/Zenair/AMD (particularly Mathieu and Sebastian Heintz) and builders
and owners of these planes. Perhaps Sun n Fun could provide a suitable venue
for this big meeting. I would expect the meeting to take at least several
hours and possibly several days.
My goals for such a meeting are:
1. A clear understanding by all major parties that answers the question: Is
the current set of changes sufficient to be comfortable with this design or
is further testing and possible design change needed?
2. A plan for conducting any further tests that are needed including who
will conduct the tests and where the funding will come from. This requires
several phases- first define the needs, then estimate the costs, finally
come up with a funding plan. Furthermore, we should examine the availability
of government engineers to aid in the design and evaluation of any further
testing that is required. Clearly, the FAA and NTSB have more engineering
manpower than either the builders or Zenair/Zenith/AMD.
3. Since the NTSB letter really started this public discussion of the Zodiac
problems, I suggest the NTSB provide a chairman to lead this discussion. If
that choice doesn't work, then I suggest the FAA provide a chairman.
4. I hope any further engineering analysis can be done as an open and public
event rather than the secretive style used so far in this situation. That
way we should all be able to reach the same general conclusions about the
engineering judgments that are currently under significant dispute.
If such a meeting is scheduled, I will personally attend it (after traveling
3,000 miles) and I will also consider contributing funds toward the costs of
further testing.
I hope we can eventually reach a point where we all can sleep well while
flying and selling our Zodiacs.
Paul Mulwitz
Camas, WA
--
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Scotsman
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/65 |
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As an aside after considering the FAA's report it looks like, contrary to numerous other comments on Matronics, that a number concerns raised by ZBAG on the original design were legitimate.
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eldenej(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni |
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When the modification kit was introduced some weeks ago, it was my impression that the FAA had, in effect, both collaborated in, and "signed off" on, the kit as an adequate response to the concerns expressed by both it and the NTSB. Now this.
What did I miss? Was the kit made public before the FAA was satisfied? Are we to suppose that there are, potentially, additional modifications it will deem necessary?
Elden Jacobson
xl/3300
do not archive
--- On Wed, 2/24/10, Scotsman <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za> wrote:
[quote][b]
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni |
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Hi Eldon and James,
It seems the FAA felt the design changes were necessary but not necessarily sufficient to fix the problems. It may be that some of the FAA people felt the changes were sufficient but the authors of the recent report clearly want more evaluation to be done. It may help to remember that the FAA is a huge bureaucracy and that it is silly to assume that so many different people already agree on any subject.
James, you appear to be correct. I wasn't convinced there was a flutter problem, but the FAA engineers seem completely convinced this is part of the problem. Now, I am forced to consider some kind of flutter problem to be a matter of fact.
I wonder if this will ever be resolved to give us a design with a clean bill of health. I certainly hope so.
Paul
Camas, WA
Soon to receive the upgrade kit.
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elden Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:55 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni
When the modification kit was introduced some weeks ago, it was my impression that the FAA had, in effect, both collaborated in, and "signed off" on, the kit as an adequate response to the concerns expressed by both it and the NTSB. Now this.
What did I miss? Was the kit made public before the FAA was satisfied? Are we to suppose that there are, potentially, additional modifications it will deem necessary?
Elden Jacobson
xl/3300
do not archive
--- On Wed, 2/24/10, Scotsman <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Scotsman <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za>
Subject: Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/650 (Warni
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 9:25 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scotsman" <james.roberts(at)computershare.co.za>
As an aside after considering the FAA's report it looks like, contrary to numerous other comments on Matronics, that a number concerns raised by ZBAG on the original design were legitimate.
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
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[quote]============================== [b]
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Scotsman
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Q&A FAA Special Review Team Report - Zodiac 601XL/65 |
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I certainly hope so too. My upgrade kit has arrived in South Africa yesterday (awaiting collection) and I believe that the modifications contained therein talk to the issues raised by the various agencies. With cognisance of the various recommendations I am comfortable to fly in a modified XL....though it would be "nice" to have the FAA's blessing!
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