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Rex Hefferan
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"
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 Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Maybe it's not "How does it know?", but "How do we know the light is
vertical?"
Perhaps gravity has it's effect IF there are vertically oriented
particles or maybe it's just a gyroscopic thing. 
We manipulate the light and when released it rights itself.
Rex
in Florida
Michel Verheughe wrote:
| Quote: |
On Apr 14, 2006, at 8:15 AM, kurt schrader wrote:
>How does it know?
>
>
I have no idea, Kurt, but this is very interesting, thanks for sharing.
I guess the answer is that light can't be considered as something like
sound wave, wind or running water. It belongs to another universe where
Newton physics and even relativity doesn't rule. It belongs to quantum
physic, the micro-universe where things are not exactly where they are
and you can't predict their next position. ... and now, it gets too
complicated for my little brain!
Cheers,
Michel
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Rex
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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
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alnanarthur(at)sbcglobal.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Kurt, I think the situation that you have presented is a little
sloppy. Let me be a bit more rigorous.
If in a nuclear reaction, a pair of "quantum mechanically entangled"
photons are coaxed out of the vacuum, they will fly off in opposite
directions at the speed of light. They will have an "uncertain
polarization", that is, they have all possible polarizations ( like
Schrodingers cat - both dead and alive).
If we properly store one photon here while the other one journeys
off to Alpha Centauri (which we lowly mortals think is 4 light
years away), and then we measure the polarization of our photon it
will have to decide what polarization it will have ( this is known as
the collapse of the quantum wave function).
At that instant it's sibling must assume a polarization at right
angles.
"How do it know"? Well you answered the question. When a
photon travels in spacetime, it travels in a pure space dimension
and can travel across the universe in zero time. In its frame
there is no time and all of space is a single point.
Since, in the photo's point of view it is right next to it's
sibling so it has no trouble communicating with it.
This is somewhat hard for us earth bound creatures to get our head
around, but you see, the photon can't understand why it takes us so
long to fly from point A to point B in our Kitfox.
The photon travels in spacetime at the the speed of light with very
little energy since it has zero rest mass. But we also travel thru
spacetime at the speed of light.
NOTHING CAN GO SLOWER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT THROUGH SPACETIME!
We travel through spacetime mainly in the time dimension, that is
why time seems to go so fast (especially as we get older).
Do not archive
Al Arthur
On Apr 13, 2006, at 11:15 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
| Quote: |
<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>
Since the list is pretty quiet....
A puzzler: If you take light and shine it thru a half
silvered mirror so that 1/2 the light is passed thru
and the other 1/2 is reflected off in a different
direction,
And you pass each 1/2 of the light thru polorizing
glasses so that only verticle waves pass from one beam
and only horizontal waves pass thru from the other
beam and,
If you then take the verticle waves and optically turn
them horizontal,
The horizontal beam going off in a completely
different direction will immediately turn verticle!
How does it know?
Kurt S.
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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I love it Big Al!
You immediately got the answer.
Given that my physics is better than my spelling, I
think I'll stick it out here while the list is quiet.
We are way out of Popular Science and into Scientific
American territory mow. Theory that is changed by the
act of looking for the proof..... Uncertainity
principle? Chaos and anti-chaos theory?
You probably liked the origional Hitch Hiker's Guide
to the Galaxy too? I got the books and movie both.
42???
Hubble's constant?
I like to use flouresent lights as my "simple" and
every day quantum physics application. Jumpin'
electrons, orbits and wavelenghts. Absorbtion and
re-emmition..... It's a start.
The example I gave is an older experiment where the
light was then shined on a second pair of polarized
lenses as detectors and you could determine that
changing the polarity of 1/2 of the beam meant that
the second beam would no longer penetrate its
polarized lense until it was also turned. Messy as
you said, but an interesting experiment.
You are exactly right that if we view things in light
speed and "no time" the answer is much more obvious.
What we may see as light beams split and miles or
light years apart is really still connected to the
source, or everywhere at once.
This leads me to 3 points.
Have you heard of the recent success in entraping
light or "stopping" it? A photon you say....
Suppose that you split the beam (or entangled photons)
in 2 and polarized each half, then entrapped them.
Now if you carry the case for each half to any remote
location, you can still (?) change the polarity of the
other half by changing yours.
Take 40 or so such paired split beams and make a
"typewriter" from them that changes the orientation of
each 1/2 beam for characters and symbols selected as a
transmitter, or reads the polarity of those you have
as a reciever. Perhaps an unjammable and undetectable
communications device with no range limits? Beats
VHF! I'll let you build the detector.
Second point: If we replace the cat in the box with a
scientist and give the outside observer scientist a
gun, I bet we can determine if the scientist in the
box is alive or dead within a shot or 2 without
opening the box..... The boxed scientist will either
scream, or not..... I just like cats...  And not
uncertainty.....
Third, if gravity is such a problem to the unified
field theory.... Do you notice that we don't really
need any gravity in 4 dimensional space? Inertia will
explain the observed effects, if time is considered.
Accelleration requires a time component.
All except you can still have "gravity waves" as in
the unfolding of space-time, if mass is converted to
energy. But I think the 3 remaining forces can do the
whole job by themselves if we just recognize that we
have time enertia too.
Or am I just pulling your strings? After all, I
am just a KitFox driver.
OK, everybody got that? There will be a test....
Kurt S.
Do not archive
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Michael G,
--------------------------------
| Quote: | Kurt sez:
>The horizontal beam going off in a completely
different direction will immediately turn verticle!
>
>How does it know?
|
--------------------------------
| Quote: | --- Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net> wrote:
|
| Quote: | First it was general relativity, now quantum
mechanics! Who knew
that Kitfox drivers were so knowledgeable about
modern physics?
|
--------------------------------
One person can only do so much.
Helps to have attention deficite deslyxia and is that
how you spell fysics?
Well, what do you think about while you are building a
plane anyway???
kurt S.
Do not archive.
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alnanarthur(at)sbcglobal.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Hi Kurt, Thanks for the reply.
I think that I will take my towel and cogitate upon your most lucid
trilogy of conjectures.
I'm sure if I search deep enough, that I will find a kernel of truth
buried in there somewhere.
Yes, I have read about slowing light to a standstill and I don't
understand it.
Bell theorem proves quantum (spooky) action at a distance, but sadly
it also proves that it is not possible to use it to communicate
instantly . The receiver doesn't have the code needed to decode the
message, it would have to be sent by the "slow speed of light"
method. So you might just as well send the message via the speed of
light. Maybe wormholes would work!
As to your second point, I'm not getting in that box.
Thirdly, in a universe with 4 spatial dimensions, the effects of
gravity are unstable. And even gravitational waves are effected by
gravity. There would therefore clearly be Chaos in the Cosmos.
I think that only you and I seem to be playing this game. The other
listers seem to be underwhelmed with our deep. philosophical
ramblings. If the rain stops soon here in "sunny" CA, I'm going
flying.
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY
Al Arthur do not archive
On Apr 14, 2006, at 8:41 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
| Quote: |
<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>
I love it Big Al!
You immediately got the answer.
Given that my physics is better than my spelling, I
think I'll stick it out here while the list is quiet.
We are way out of Popular Science and into Scientific
American territory mow. Theory that is changed by the
act of looking for the proof..... Uncertainity
principle? Chaos and anti-chaos theory?
You probably liked the origional Hitch Hiker's Guide
to the Galaxy too? I got the books and movie both.
42???
Hubble's constant?
I like to use flouresent lights as my "simple" and
every day quantum physics application. Jumpin'
electrons, orbits and wavelenghts. Absorbtion and
re-emmition..... It's a start.
The example I gave is an older experiment where the
light was then shined on a second pair of polarized
lenses as detectors and you could determine that
changing the polarity of 1/2 of the beam meant that
the second beam would no longer penetrate its
polarized lense until it was also turned. Messy as
you said, but an interesting experiment.
You are exactly right that if we view things in light
speed and "no time" the answer is much more obvious.
What we may see as light beams split and miles or
light years apart is really still connected to the
source, or everywhere at once.
This leads me to 3 points.
Have you heard of the recent success in entraping
light or "stopping" it? A photon you say....
Suppose that you split the beam (or entangled photons)
in 2 and polarized each half, then entrapped them.
Now if you carry the case for each half to any remote
location, you can still (?) change the polarity of the
other half by changing yours.
Take 40 or so such paired split beams and make a
"typewriter" from them that changes the orientation of
each 1/2 beam for characters and symbols selected as a
transmitter, or reads the polarity of those you have
as a reciever. Perhaps an unjammable and undetectable
communications device with no range limits? Beats
VHF! I'll let you build the detector.
Second point: If we replace the cat in the box with a
scientist and give the outside observer scientist a
gun, I bet we can determine if the scientist in the
box is alive or dead within a shot or 2 without
opening the box..... The boxed scientist will either
scream, or not..... I just like cats... And not
uncertainty.....
Third, if gravity is such a problem to the unified
field theory.... Do you notice that we don't really
need any gravity in 4 dimensional space? Inertia will
explain the observed effects, if time is considered.
Accelleration requires a time component.
All except you can still have "gravity waves" as in
the unfolding of space-time, if mass is converted to
energy. But I think the 3 remaining forces can do the
whole job by themselves if we just recognize that we
have time enertia too.
Or am I just pulling your strings? After all, I
am just a KitFox driver.
OK, everybody got that? There will be a test....
Kurt S.
Do not archive
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mino2(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Kirt S.
I'm still with the guy figuring how to get polytak cement off my fingers
Fly safe,
Nelson
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:47 AM, Mr NELSON GOGUEN wrote:
| Quote: | I'm still with the guy figuring how to get polytak cement off my
fingers
|
Here is how: Put your fingers in a space/time wormhole after setting
your photon accelerator to ... about, 42.
Your fingers should come back on the other side, as they were about ten
years ago.
Warning: Do not abuse the wormhole or your fingers will come back as
baby fingers and it makes polytak cementing very, very difficult!
.. And now, I have to run before the nurse tries to give me my
medicine!
Cheers,
Michel
Do not archive
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Yes sticky fingers,
Now that we have alcohol to talk about, I think I'll
drop the subject, but it was fun for an off topic
subject to fill time and space with - time and space.
To the List: Thanks for all of your endurance for off
topic stuff.
Kurt S.
--- Mr NELSON GOGUEN <mino2(at)verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Kirt S.
I'm still with the guy figuring how to get polytak
cement off my fingers
Fly safe,
Nelson
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Tis ok Kurt, but I feel really dumb and have a headache now. Ron NB Ore
| Quote: | From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: off topic - Date time note
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>
Yes sticky fingers,
Now that we have alcohol to talk about, I think I'll
drop the subject, but it was fun for an off topic
subject to fill time and space with - time and space.
To the List: Thanks for all of your endurance for off
topic stuff.
Kurt S.
--- Mr NELSON GOGUEN <mino2(at)verizon.net> wrote:
> Kirt S.
>
> I'm still with the guy figuring how to get polytak
> cement off my fingers
>
> Fly safe,
>
> Nelson
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Hi Al,
--- alnanarthur <alnanarthur(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Kurt, Thanks for the reply.
|
And thanks for your tollerance of a mear Marine.
| Quote: | I think that I will take my towel and cogitate upon
your most lucid trilogy of conjectures.
|
Towel! I knew it....
Trilogy: Probably the closest I will get to writing
Star Wars.
Conjectures: Yes, I hardly rise up to a theory, which
is really just an opinion from someone who thinks they
are important.
| Quote: | I'm sure if I search deep enough, that I will find
a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.
|
Refer back to Star Wars, as in a fantasy.
| Quote: | Yes, I have read about slowing light to a
standstill and I don't understand it.
|
There are more such announcements:
Light (energy) traveling faster thru an "opaque"
object than the same distance around it?
A magnetic field that creates a shadow blocking
gravity? We already have the AirBus. Don't need any
more means of lift that totally depend upon
electronics to work.
.........
| Quote: | Chaos in the Cosmos.
.....
|
| Quote: | I think that only you and I seem to be playing this
game.
|
Yes, and we introduced chaos to matronics, so back to
sticky finger and alcohol for me too.
Kurt S.
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dafox(at)ckt.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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You Guys remind me of the two philosophing Monkeys that got overwhelmed by eating to many
bananas impregnated with himp dust, they were OK because they lived in the jungle social circle
with other monkeys that ate the same kind of Bananas that spoke the same language. concequently,
their language out side the monkey jungle had no value.
David
---
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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On Apr 23, 2006, at 4:26 AM, david yeamans wrote:
| Quote: | concequently, their language out side the monkey jungle had no value.
|
I beg to differ, my friend. While definitively "outside my league"
this exchange of ideas between Al, Kurt and others, is certainly
interesting (although off-topic Kitfox, of course). While it will not
change our everyday's life, it is a honour we do to our brain, to use
it in any thinkable way, even if it hurts. No pain, no gain, right?
Personally, I strongly feel that the mystery of the universe is
somewhat easy to explain in a global concept. Only that we can't "see"
it because our brain has, through evolution, been optimised for other
tasks like, finding food, finding a mate, surviving. I think that
talking about the "four spacial dimensions" on the internet and share
it with people on different continents is already a feast of
intelligence we can be proud of. It is much better than prejudice,
bigotry and ethnocentrism. Won't you agree?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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We have a saying now where I work: "Like 2 pigs
studying a wristwatch" .... (It referes to us
Boeing pilots trying to figure out our aircraft
computers.)
Good news and bad news: I studied Einstein's stuff in
the 10th grade before the U.S. decided that dumbing
down would win more Democratic voters. That is the
bad news. I haven't gotten any smarter since the 10th
grade.
The good news is that now I am old, lost my hair,
hearing and eyesight, and can't remember what else.
Given that, I am more tolerant of others whom I can't
see or hear, and I am left with sun burn, and only BS
for answers. So you all shouldn't feel too bad.
Like Al said, there was some truth in there somewhere,
but like "Hitchhiker's Guide..." it was far out and a
spoof on theoritical science. We don't really know
S---, but have heard the theories and know that
theoritical physicists don't know either. We are now
positively, absolutely certain that we were definately
wrong the last time we knew for sure.
So it was just for fun to fill in the off topic hour
until we got back to the real business of KitFox life.
It is better to get high on Avgas, IMHO.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- david yeamans <dafox(at)ckt.net> wrote:
| Quote: | You Guys remind me of the two philosophing Monkeys
that got overwhelmed by eating to many
bananas impregnated with himp dust, they were OK
because they lived in the jungle social circle
with other monkeys that ate the same kind of Bananas
that spoke the same language. concequently,
their language out side the monkey jungle had no
value.
|
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mmarks(at)sentex.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: off topic - Date time note |
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Hey Kert, does this mean that democratic votes would be good now, from far
away I would think (r) has missed the boat completely.
---
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
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Ceashman(at)aol.com
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Rex Hefferan
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"
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