 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: Air system report |
 |
|
Thought yall might be interested in my long term (7 years, 1200hrs) report on using Marvel Mystery AIR TOOL oil through my air system on an every six month basis. I pulled the gear retract cylinders today to just see what they looked like, I was especially interested in the nose strut as being vertical it should have the tendency to pass the oil after a few cycles and then just be running on air tool oil vapor unlike the main cylinders laying on their sides which would tend to retain some oil.
Aircraft history: TTAFSN: 487hr. Year built: 1985 Model: Haiyan C
I overhauled all the cylinders in 2004 while in restoration. All the stock Chinese seals were replaced with US supplied METRIC O-RINGS, replacing the stock square seals the Chinese use. At this time the ball lock mechanism showed some signs of galling and I noticed that it was greased (hard now and not working) and there was no trace of oil in the system. I overhauled as necessary replacing anything suspect with new. Cylinders were lightly honed. And the ball locks were heavily greased with AeroShell #5 upon assembly but everything else was soaked in MM air tool oil.
Present day: Typical findings:
Everything looked just as if it was 2004. Air tool oil was found in all cylinders, and I would estimate about one ounce in each. The ball locks looked brand new, and everything was coated with oil and very clean. O-rings all looked new with no signs of abrasion or wear whatsoever. There was a slight amount of wear on the O-ring pistons but since they were reused I suspect that was there at overhaul. I was prepared to replace the O-rings and anything else but everything looked so good all I did is regrease the ball locks and hose everything down with air tool oil and reassemble. The oil also will keep the cylinder walls from rusting and pitting from having water sit in them when not in use, especially the main cylinders laying on their sides and their ports halfway up the sides helping to keep water in the cylinder.
Note:
Every six months I inject MM air tool oil (8 ounces) into the system through the ground service port, I also inject about one ounce into both sides of the gear cylinders with a syringe. Once I year I pull the air tanks and clean and install about 10 ounces of air tool oil and rotate the tanks to fully coat the inside. I have also replaced the main bottle drain plug with a high pressure gear strut valve so that I can drain and refill the tank very quickly to eliminate any contaminates and especially water. I also have gear and flap valve shields and hoses that vent the oil mist on cycling overboard.
In closing I will add that I have never had a air system problem since 2004 and the system will hold its full pressure pretty much forever. (That is if I don't forget to turn off the main valve!)
Final: I would say it works!
The Great Bunndini
Vector Warbirds USA
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Air system report |
|
|
OK........
TGB, I really enjoy reading your posts but in this case, I'm sure I'm not the only one on this list thinking wtf is he talking about.
Injecting oil into gear cylinders with a syringe? I have an "idea" what you are talking about but a picture is worth a 1000 words.
(I once had to inject some farm animals I owned with antibiotics and let's just say it wasn't pretty)
"gear and flap valve shields and hoses that vent the oil mist on cycling overboard. "
not a clue on this one...I'm guessing this is some custom made mod.
Regards,
Keith
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
Many uses for a syringe in aircraft maintenance. Injecting a specific amount
of oil as Bundini has noted, filling compasses, removing air bubbles from
newly installed de-ice boots, etc.etc.
Walt
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Air system report |
|
|
Walt, I don't doubt that at all. There are many uses for a lot of things.
My QUESTION is simply how he went about it. Injecting it through the rubber seal seems to be the logical answer. Generally I don't assume anything I know little about and injecting Nanchangs would fit into that categogy.
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
There have been a lot of comments over the years concerning the pro's
and con's of injecting air tool oil (and other substances) into the air
system of YAK's and CJ's.
There is no doubt at all that oil can help slow down corrosion.
But there are other things just as dangerous as corrosion and I will say
this about the whole issue: BE CAREFUL.
Not all seals are the same. Not all seals are created equal. One test
on one airplane is proof that what was done worked on one aircraft, and
that is all it proves.
I have seen with my own eyes (and on my OWN AIRPLANE) where injecting
this kind of oil into the air system caused the seals in the cylinder to
just simply disintegrate. This resulted in the requirement of using the
emergency gear blow-down system, which worked. It worked mainly because
the emergency gear blow-down in the YAKS does not have flow restrictors
and full pressure all at once was enough to get the gear down with what
was left of the seals.
My "take it or leave it" unsolicited advice to all of you is this: DO
NOT INJECT ANY DARN THING INTO THIS SYSTEM ***IF**** you have old seals
that have been in for a long time and you do not know their origin or
condition. That is what I did. It was a BAD MOVE on my part. I also
know of one other YAK-50 that this happened to as well. Both mine and
the other one had original Russian seals.
If you want to try this procedure, first rebuild your actuators, get an
extra seal or two and dump it into a jar of "whatever" you plan on
putting into the system and let it soak for a week or two and see what
happens. Better yet... Contact the maker of the seals and ask what
happens when you expose them to whatever you plan on putting in there.
Whatever you do, don't start putting this stuff into an aircraft that
has old seals from Russia. Rebuild them FIRST~!
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK/N66PW
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
One does not have inject the needle into a hose, one only needs to disconnect a hose on the down side of the actuator. "Inject" the oil into the hose and than reconnect the B nut. The next time you open the main air valve, the oil is pushed into the actuator. Wa-la you've oiled the actuator. You can do the same to the up side of the actuator. When you bring the gear-up, air blast the oil into the up side of the actuator. You'll get a fine mist of oil out gear handle, indicating that you've oiled just about the entire system.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:57 am Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
Keith:
Google: Monoject 412 or check ebay and you will be the exact little plastic syringe I use. They are tough, cheap and it fits snugly into the gear hoses, I snipped off a bit of the tip to make the hole bigger. I take off the up and down hose NOT at the cylinder but at the wheel well bulkhead at the fittings there, I do this because its hard to get to the fittings on the sides of the cylinders and also because when you inject the side that the piston is at that end you can't really get much oil in there and it comes squirting back out. I take off just one hose at a time as well. I also marked them up and down so it is easier not to screw the pooch.
If you inject at the bulkhead and shove it down the hose it works better. Once I inject it I pull the syringe plunger back and push it back in a few times to make sure I get the oil down the hose so it doesn't come squirting back out. Its really just trial and error to get the hang of it so you don't get a hairdo in MMO!
In fact after one or two strokes I pull the plunger out of the end to release any pressure. For some odd reason my girl don't like the MMO slicked back look or the smell. I told her it was way cheaper than Brillcream but she ain't buying it.
I made little covers out of brass with tubes that cover the gear and flap valve ports, then a hose runs down and out the bottom of the aircraft. With as much MMO that is running in the system it will mist into the cockpit and my backseater is a priss. But a nice rag doubled up and wrapped around and zip tied to each will also do the trick. Just have to change it every now and again or it will start dripping oil on your flight suit pant leg!
I really think this has helped the system throughout, and I have seen a few air lines corrode through especially at low points, with the oil in there that probably will not happen again. It also keeps the system very clean, being a carrier for all the crap it blows it out.
Hope this helps, any more questions let me know.
TGB
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
Guys,Read the manual, it goes into detail as to where to inject the oil, how much and what kind. Be VERY cautious about over oiling as it will wash the high pressure grease out of the actuators. This will cause premature failure due to wear inside of the actuator cyl.
Someone much smarter than me once said when asked "what is the best thing I can do for my airplane to increase its performance? His reply was to go fill up the gas tank and go fly, bring it back and fill the gas tank again and go fly...........in short practice and experience are the best things you can have to get the most out of your aircraft. This applies to systems knowledge as well, fill up your coffee cup and go READ your manuals, fill it up again and READ some more. The list is great, don't get me wrong, but advice when given is sometimes questionable. The knowledge put forth in the 9 available manuals are the accumulation of many years of experience, the manuals are a gold mine of facts if you just take the time to read them.
Also, and maybe of equal importance, during this time of increased fuel, and maint costs, knowing your aircraft's systems and the correct maint procedures will save you big dollars in the long run. As the Yuan continues to edge closer to the US dollar parts cost will continue to escalate. The news papers in Beijing warn of another possible "adjustment" in the next 60 days due to pressure from the Obama regime.
I'll get off my soap box now.
Fly safe.
Doug
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:16 PM, <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] One does not have inject the needle into a hose, one only needs to disconnect a hose on the down side of the actuator. "Inject" the oil into the hose and than reconnect the B nut. The next time you open the main air valve, the oil is pushed into the actuator. Wa-la you've oiled the actuator. You can do the same to the up side of the actuator. When you bring the gear-up, air blast the oil into the up side of the actuator. You'll get a fine mist of oil out gear handle, indicating that you've oiled just about the entire system.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: Air system report |
|
|
Gesus,
Do yall really think I am stabbing a needle through the hose? I am doing just as Pappy eludes, removing the hoses from the fittings!
Also my AC had less than 500 hrs on it when I rebuilt the cylinders, the grease was pretty much all gone, hard and not doing a thing at that point. I am sure you have all seen dried out Chinese grease! So unless you are taking them apart every 200 or 300 hrs and re-greasing them as the Chinese ground crews probably did then the grease is gone.
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
