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oil cooler issues

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stinis(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

Have any of you experience high oil temp on your Grumman tigers (AA5B) 

during the warm months?  I live in Southern CA and just the other day it was 

around 85-90 degrees and by the time I took off to climbing through 3,000ft 

my oil temp was almost at redline (250 degrees).  I recently bought the 

aircraft.  Since I've had it hasn't been hot lately, so the problem has been 

masked.

To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it, and 

no change.  This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under the 

cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring.  Do any of you think this 

would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman?  I also 

took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put both 

sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was 

something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified the 

thermostat was opening as well.  The funny thing is you would assume your 

cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees.   The 

particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.

Someone recommended to cross the oil lines at the oil cooler.  He said 

sometimes they could be switched internally...but, I've never heard of that 

before.  Every Grumman I've seen is rigged the same way I have it.  I also 

have another grumman that flies better in the heat.  The hottest I've see 

the oil temp is around 200 degrees and it's a stock AA5B.  It doesn't haven 

any of the mods I mentioned before on the other.  Right now, were all 

scratching our heads as to why this aircraft is at least 40-60 degrees 

warmer than the other grumman.



Any thoughts/suggestions?



Thanks,



Stephen

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/18/06 11:36:50 PM, stinis(at)cox.net writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it,

 and

 no change.=A0 This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under=20the

 cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring.=A0 Do any of you think this

 would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman?=A0 I=20also

 took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put both

 sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was

 something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified the

 thermostat was opening as well.=A0 The funny thing is you would assume your

 cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees.=A0=A0 The

 particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.




	


I would look seriously at the baffles and baffle seals.   Particularly the

ones behind the nose bowl.  



Fly it up to Auburn and let's take a look at it.   Or, when I go to get

Travis' plane at Fox, I could meet you there and look at it.



I flew out of Fox for 22 years and the highest oil temp I ever saw was 220.=20 

Gary

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/19/06 2:36:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stinis(at)cox.net 

writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   To stop the high oil temp, I recently put an oversized oil cooler on it, 

and 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    no change.  This particular aircraft has oversized scopes located under 

the 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    cowling and also has an exhaust speed faring.  Do any of you think this 

  would have any factor that would make it worse than a stock grumman?  I 

also 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    took the sending unit out and replaced it with a new one. I also put both 

  sending units in boiling water along with the gauges to see if there was 

  something wrong...but everything seems to be accurate. We also verified 

the 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    thermostat was opening as well.  The funny thing is you would assume your 

  cylinder temps would rise....well they were around 360 degrees.   The 

  particualar aircraft has an EI gauge which is helpful.

  Someone recommended to cross the oil lines at the oil cooler.  He said 

  sometimes they could be switched internally...but, I've never heard of 

that 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    before.  Every Grumman I've seen is rigged the same way I have it.  I also 

  have another grumman that flies better in the heat.  The hottest I've see 

  the oil temp is around 200 degrees and it's a stock AA5B.  It doesn't 

haven 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    any of the mods I mentioned before on the other.  Right now, were all 

  scratching our heads as to why this aircraft is at least 40-60 degrees 

  warmer than the other grumman.

  

  Any thoughts/suggestions?

  

  Thanks,

  

  Stephen

==========================
	


Stephen:



The good part is that a larger oil cooler is a good thing.  

Swapping the oil lines does NOTHING!  There is NOTHING to swap internally.  

B.O.B.S.   

But, from what you describe the problem sounds like your Vernatherm.  Pull it 

and inspect it ... You are looking for two things:

1 - WEAR MARKS - A wear ring on the shinny stainless steel seat.  Yes, there 

should be a small ring but not deep or uneven rings.  Bring it to your A&P if 

you are not familiar with what normal one looks like.  Best way to check 

function is to swap with a good one.

2 - There is an AD against older Vernatherms, to inspect the secureness of 

the crimped end nut.  Newer ones have a roll pin through the nut & shaft.



I would also check the quality of the ring lug connection on the temperature 

sending unit. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN!  Use a new internal star washer.

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

stinis(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

Thanks all for your help and suggestions.  We messed with the Vernatherm and 

verified all baffling was good.  We didn't see any issues upon inspection, 

but I think taking it out and looking at it probably did something when it 

was all back together. Climbing out at 70kts, 85 degrees outside

through 8500 ft. the oil temp reached 230 degrees at maximum.  Upon level 

flight, it would cruise around 215 degrees.  Upon landing it was around 190 

degrees.  Does this seem normal?



Thanks again for your help.



Stephen



---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/19/06 9:54:25 PM, stinis(at)cox.net writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Climbing out at 70kts, 85 degrees outside

 through 8500 ft. the oil temp reached 230 degrees at maximum.=A0 Upon level

 flight, it would cruise around 215 degrees.=A0 Upon landing it was around=20190

 degrees.=A0 Does this seem normal?



 Thanks again for your help.




	


The oil temp, typically, never goes much over 180 to 190 degrees.   I have a

digital oil temp sensor and my temp is typlically 180 to 181 under most

conditions.



Gary

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/20/06 12:54:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stinis(at)cox.net 

writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Climbing out at 70kts, 85 degrees outside

  through 8500 ft. the oil temp reached 230 degrees at maximum.  Upon level 

  flight, it would cruise around 215 degrees.  Upon landing it was around 

190 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    degrees.  Does this seem normal?

  

  Thanks again for your help.

  

  Stephen

========================
	


Stephen:



The oil temps do seem just a slight bit high.  I don't care for the 230 on 

climb or the 215 in cruise or even the 190 on decent.



You mentioned an EI gage, it sounded like the gage was for Cylinder Temps not 

oil, does it also do Oil Temps?



What color is your oil?



How long does it take to turn BLACK?



What are the compression's on the cylinders?



Playing Doctor over the Internet is difficult.  Ya loose out on all the 

touch'y - feel'y stuff.  At this point I t would really be helpfull to examine the 

baffeling and associated air flow.



You said you looked at the Vernatherm, but you did not mention anything about 

the ware marks.  They are a huge giveaway to problems.





Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

stinis(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

Gary,



What was your outside air temp where you operate.  My information was at 

full power at maximum climb....Trying to create a worse case scenario. 

Sound like my temp is still too high.  I don't know what else to do...maybe 

your cowling might help?



Stephen

---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/20/06 6:06:38 PM, stinis(at)cox.net writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 What was your outside air temp where you operate.=A0 My information was at

 full power at maximum climb....Trying to create a worse case scenario.

 Sound like my temp is still too high.=A0 I don't know what else to do...maybe

 your cowling might help?


	


With an OAT of 100+ I run about 190 to 195 oil temp.   Climbing to cooler air

helps.  



Baffles and larger cooling ramp exits help a lot with high oil temp.



Gary

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

923te(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: oil cooler issues

Gary,



Sounds like a perfect time to tout some of the outstanding benefits of your 

new cowling design:)



Ned

 	  Quote: 	
		   With an OAT of 100+ I run about 190 to 195 oil temp.   Climbing to cooler 

 air

 helps.



 Baffles and larger cooling ramp exits help a lot with high oil temp.



 Gary

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: oil cooler issues

In a message dated 4/21/06 3:45:23 AM, 923te(at)cox.net writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Sounds like a perfect time to tout some of the outstanding benefits of your

 new cowling design:)



 Ned

 > With an OAT of 100+ I run about 190 to 195 oil temp.=A0=A0 Climbing to cooler

 > air

 > helps.




	


I thought that was obvious

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

923te(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: oil cooler issues

Only to those on the list in the know:)



---

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