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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Just got this note from a cousin out in California . . .



---------------------------------------

Penetrating Oils Compared



Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective

test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.



Penetrating oil           Average load



None ..................... 516 pounds



WD-40 .................. 238 pounds



PB Blaster ..............214 pounds



Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds



Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds



ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds



The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

transmission fluid and acetone.



Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as

good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.



------------------------------------------



   Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

   left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

   some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

   interesting to see that one can do better yet

   with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

   be interested in hearing from members on

   the list who have tried the home brew.



   Bob . . .

rd2(at)dejazzd.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Bob, good deal! Tx a lot for sharing this. Wish you have a large family (of cousins like this).  

Rumen



do not archive



---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 Just got this note from a cousin out in California . . .

 

 ---------------------------------------

 Penetrating Oils Compared

 

 Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

 out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective

 test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

 required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

 

 Penetrating oil           Average load

 

 None ..................... 516 pounds

 

 WD-40 .................. 238 pounds

 

 PB Blaster ..............214 pounds

 

 Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds

 

 Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds

 

 ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds

 

 The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

 transmission fluid and acetone.

 

 Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

 one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

 use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as

 good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

 

 ------------------------------------------

 

    Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

    left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

    some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

    interesting to see that one can do better yet

    with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

    be interested in hearing from members on

    the list who have tried the home brew.

 

    Bob . . .

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Bob -



I have been using "the brew" now for about a year, and am astonished at 

how well it works.  Recently I was tearing down a washer for repair, and 

the tub nut was frozen in place (aluminum).  All the repair directions 

said to cut it off with a chisel and replace.  I soaked it in "the brew" 

for around an hour, ever so often, giving it a couple of whacks around 

the perimeter with a hammer and a drift.  When I put the wrench on it, 

off it came like it was new!  I have used it side by side with Liquid 

wrench, and it works twice as fast.  Drawbacks are that it is very 

flammable, has to be kept in a closed container (I use old shampoo 

bottles with the snap over tops and a short length of vinyl tubing in 

the hole for a spout), and will ruin a paint job in a hurry.  I'm on a 

couple of machinist's websites and put the info on both of them 

recently.  All my buddies are using it now. 



M. Haught



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 Just got this note from a cousin out in California . . .



 ---------------------------------------

 Penetrating Oils Compared



 Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

 out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a 

 subjective

 test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

 required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.



 Penetrating oil           Average load



 None ..................... 516 pounds



 WD-40 .................. 238 pounds



 PB Blaster ..............214 pounds



 Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds



 Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds



 ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds



 The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

 transmission fluid and acetone.



 Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

 one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

 use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is 

 about as

 good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.



 ------------------------------------------



   Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

   left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

   some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

   interesting to see that one can do better yet

   with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

   be interested in hearing from members on

   the list who have tried the home brew.



   Bob . . .

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Good Afternoon 'Lectric Bob,

  

 I have been using Corrosion X for those purposes I wonder how it would fare  on an equivalent test?

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

 Do Not Archive

  

  In a message dated 4/6/2010 4:02:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"    <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

Just got this note from a    cousin out in California . .    .



---------------------------------------

Penetrating Oils    Compared



Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for    break

out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a    subjective

test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the    torque

required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted"    environment.



Penetrating oil              Average load



None ..................... 516 pounds



WD-40    .................. 238 pounds



PB Blaster ..............214    pounds



Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds



Kano Kroil ...........    106 pounds



ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds



The ATF-Acetone mix was    a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

transmission fluid and    acetone.



Note:   The "home brew" was better than any    commercial product in this

one particular test. A local machinist group    mixed up a batch and all now

use it with equally good results. Note also    that "Liquid Wrench" is about as

good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the    price.



------------------------------------------



      Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

   left over from our    airport days. Bought it to refurbish

   some parts on our    tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

   interesting to see that one can    do better yet

   with some off-the-shelf ingredients.    Would

   be interested in hearing from members on

      the list who have tried the home brew.



   Bob . .  ========================bsp; 	


  [quote][b]

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Hi Guys



What is the significance of the 'automatic transmission fluid'



Regards



John

 	  Quote: 	
		  > ---------------------------------------

> Penetrating Oils Compared

>

> Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

> out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a 

> subjective

> test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

> required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

>

> Penetrating oil           Average load

>

> None ..................... 516 pounds

>

> WD-40 .................. 238 pounds

>

> PB Blaster ..............214 pounds

>

> Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds

>

> Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds

>

> ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds

>

> The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

> transmission fluid and acetone.

>

> Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

> one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

> use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about 

> as

> good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

>

> ------------------------------------------

>

>   Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

>   left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

>   some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

>   interesting to see that one can do better yet

>   with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

>   be interested in hearing from members on

>   the list who have tried the home brew.

>

>   Bob . . .

>

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:16 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

What is the significance of the 'automatic transmission fluid'



Regards



John



				I would assume that this is the lubricant,

and the acetone is a strong solvent which carries it into the "nooks and

crannies" of the rusted assembly.  Probably some other lubricant could be

used, but this apparently works!



				Roger

winmail.dat

Description:

Download

Filename:

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Downloaded:

361 Time(s)

handainc(at)madisoncounty
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

I don't know - we tried regular motor oil and it did not work as well. 



M. Haught

ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   What is the significance of the 'automatic transmission fluid'



 Regards



 John



 				I would assume that this is the lubricant,

 and the acetone is a strong solvent which carries it into the "nooks and

 crannies" of the rusted assembly.  Probably some other lubricant could be

 used, but this apparently works!



 				Roger

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  What is the significance of the 'automatic transmission fluid'



Regards



John



				I would assume that this is the lubricant,

and the acetone is a strong solvent which carries it into the "nooks and

crannies" of the rusted assembly.  Probably some other lubricant could be

used, but this apparently works!



				Roger

  	
 	
 In addition, ATF is a pretty good solvent in it's own right...besides lubricating, it can dissolve lacquers, corrosion and other hard to remove cruds.  It is a recommended solvent for cleaning gun powder fouling in firearms.  

 

 So, I would think that between the acetone's properties of being thin and working into tiny spaces and being a solvent for most plastics, and the additional solvent properties of the ATF and it's ability to stay behind as a lubricant, it makes a good combination. 

 

 The containers of ATF do have warnings against getting it on your auto's finish...

 

 Harley

    [quote][b]

ainut(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:38 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

ainut(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

N20DG

Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 61
Location: lancaster, texas

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Hey, Ainut, this is the third blank you have sent

 What gives????????

  [quote][b]

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:58 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

I know a few human "nut busters."



Sorry, couldn't resist.



Do Not Archive

On Apr 6, 2010, at 5:26 PM, David wrote:



 	  Quote:

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

On 4/6/2010 8:45 PM, RGent1224(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hey, Ainut, this is the third blank you have sent

 What gives????????


	




	David (ainut(at)hiwaay.net) has the AVG virus scanner enabled on outgoing

email, and it messes up the email message.  David, if you disable the

scanning of your outbound mail, it will fix the problem.



do not archive



fyi



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV

Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/

FisherPaulA(at)johndeere.
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:48 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Bob,

I had seen that note a few months ago.  Over this last winter I had to replace an engine on a log splitter.  Since it had been together for 25+ years, everything was pretty well rusted together.  With nothing to lose, I tried the "home brew" and it worked exactly as advertised!  I was working outside, and removing paint was not an issue, so none of the concerns expressed on the list were an issue for me.  I was as surprised as anyone how well the brew worked.  I certainly recommend it for seriously rusted together parts!



Paul A. Fisher

Q-200, N17PF

RV-7A, N18PF

david.nelson(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Hi Bob,



Thank you for forwarding this great info on.  I was pondering this info while 

driving into work this AM and came up with a couple of curiosity questions:



- How long were the assemblies exposed to the penetrants before applying the 

torque (seconds, minutes, hours, days)?



- Is there any data for 'torque vs time' - ie. How much torque to break an 

assembly vs time exposed to the penetrants?

Also, I would imagine that the assemblies would have to be _very_ clean before 

re-assembling them - particularly for the 'home brew' stuff since it offers 

nearly 10x reduction in torque.



Regards,

 	 /\/elson

~~  Lately my memory seems to be like a steel trap .... without any spring.  ~~



On Tue, 6 Apr 2010, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 Just got this note from a cousin out in California . . .



 ---------------------------------------

 Penetrating Oils Compared



 Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

 out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective

 test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

 required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.



 Penetrating oil           Average load



 None ..................... 516 pounds



 WD-40 .................. 238 pounds



 PB Blaster ..............214 pounds



 Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds



 Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds



 ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds



 The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

 transmission fluid and acetone.



 Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

 one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

 use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as

 good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.



 ------------------------------------------



  Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

  left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

  some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

  interesting to see that one can do better yet

  with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

  be interested in hearing from members on

  the list who have tried the home brew.



  Bob . . .

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Here's one I have used a few times and it seems to work well. 1 oz of 

wintergreen oil (available at a pharmacy) with 1/2 gal diesel fuel is 

the formula I have seen.  When I've used it, I mix small (<1oz) batches 

of wintergreen and air tool oil ('cause it was close at hand and low 

viscosity).



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN.



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>

 

 

 Just got this note from a cousin out in California . . .

 

 ---------------------------------------

 Penetrating Oils Compared

 

 Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break

 out torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They arranged a subjective

 test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque

 required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.

 

 Penetrating oil           Average load

 

 None ..................... 516 pounds

 

 WD-40 .................. 238 pounds

 

 PB Blaster ..............214 pounds

 

 Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds

 

 Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds

 

 ATF-Acetone mix... 53 pounds

 

 The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic

 transmission fluid and acetone.

 

 Note:   The "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this

 one particular test. A local machinist group mixed up a batch and all now

 use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is 

 about as

 good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

 

 ------------------------------------------

 

   Kool Data! I have a can of Kroil that's

   left over from our airport days. Bought it to refurbish

   some parts on our tractor/hedge-hogg. But it's

   interesting to see that one can do better yet

   with some off-the-shelf ingredients. Would

   be interested in hearing from members on

   the list who have tried the home brew.

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

At 09:10 AM 4/7/2010, you wrote:


<david.nelson(at)pobox.com>

Hi Bob,



Thank you for forwarding this great info on.  I was pondering this 

info while driving into work this AM and came up with a couple of 

curiosity questions:



- How long were the assemblies exposed to the penetrants before 

applying the torque (seconds, minutes, hours, days)?



    I Did a web search on "ATF" and "acetone" and got a gob

    of hits. Seems the original author of the article

    did an update of the article but the website link

    is broken. I think the site is defunct. Did find this

    bit on at:



------------------------------

http://mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=99250

------------------------------

This same quote has been circulated over the internet for a while but 

if you actually read the article you will find:



The scientifically rusted environment was just 12 hours in salt water.



No bolts, no nuts but just dowel pins rusted into a block of steel.



A 8 hour soaking in the penetrating oil not just a few sprays.



There was no ATF but it was a 50-50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid.

Power steering fluid and acetone do not mix well, it will separate 

into two layers because acetone is relatively polar.



How valid was his study? From what I could tell from the article, it 

was really not valid. I suggest getting a copy of the article and 

deciding for your self.

-------------------------------



    The ATF/Acetone thing is very widely spread

    on 'net. Almost viral.  A search on "power steering

    fluid" and "acetone" yielded a bunch of articles

    on hazardous waste disposal.



    Would be interesting to pursue further but I'm painting

    cabinets today . . .



    Bob . . .

wgreenley

Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Dowagiac, MI

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:31 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

I have teach some advanced high school classes where the students are always

looking for interesting projects for science fairs. This research might be a

good fit. What thoughts does anyone have on how to "scientifically" within a

reasonable time frame get a bunch of comparably rusted bolts? Also, any

ideas on what application protocol for the "nut busters" would be most

useful?

Dr Greenley



--

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Chemical "nut busters"

Dr. G,



I'd say you have at least two nice projects here.



1. Studying corrosion

Compare solutions of water, water with NaCl, water with CaCl, water  

with both, on cheap, unplated, hardware bolts/nuts over time (days/ 

weeks/months).



2. Once you get a suitable set of corroded bolts/nuts, what works best  

to separate them.



I'll think more about the necessary protocols until I return home and  

can write more easily.



Regards,

Bob Borger



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 8, 2010, at 9:26, William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 I have teach some advanced high school classes where the students  

 are always

 looking for interesting projects for science fairs. This research  

 might be a

 good fit. What thoughts does anyone have on how to "scientifically"  

 within a

 reasonable time frame get a bunch of comparably rusted bolts? Also,  

 any

 ideas on what application protocol for the "nut busters" would be most

 useful?

 Dr Greenley



 --

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