Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

601XL mod list?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

careywf(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:12 am Post subject: 601XL mod list?

Is there a list available, on this site or another, that has the some or all of the following info?



1. All 601XL's completed in the United States, by N number, owners name, and city/state of residence, 



2. All 601XL's in the U.S. that have had the Zenith upgrade kit installed and are back in the air,



3. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. by owners name and city/state of residence,



4. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. that have installed, or intent to install, the Zenith upgrade kit,



5. Engine installed or being considered,



6. Zenith airframe only options installed,



7. Owner designed airframe options installed.



Walt Carey

Beavercreek, OH

601XL under construction

Upgrade kit ordered

Jabiru 3300A

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

Z601c(at)anemicaardvark.c
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: 601XL mod list?

On Friday 07 May 2010 11:12:08 you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Is there a list available, on this site or another, that has the some or

 all of the following info?


	


Maybe, but not likely. Data on factory built aircraft should be available from 

AMD. For kit or scratch built aircraft, Zenith would probably have more of the 

information than anyone else. Reasons are cited below.



 	  Quote: 	
		   1. All 601XL's completed in the United States, by N number, owners name,

 and city/state of residence,


	


Nothing requires experimental XLs to be registered as XLs. The builder can 

call them whatever he/she choses. They do not conform to a type certificate, 

and thus may have whatever designation the builder choses.



 	  Quote: 	
		   2. All 601XL's in the U.S. that have had the Zenith upgrade kit installed

 and are back in the air,


	


There is no legal requirement for anyone to collect this data. Zenith almost 

certainly knows to whom they've sold modification kits, but nothing prevents 

anyone from doing the mod from raw stock. There is no requirement to indicate 

when the mod is completed, and the aircraft is again flying, for existing 

aircraft. 



This data would appear in the aircraft logbook, but that information is not 

published publicly.



 	  Quote: 	
		   3. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. by owners name and city/state

 of residence,


	


Zenith would come closer to having this information than anyone. But I doubt 

their list is complete.



 	  Quote: 	
		   4. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. that have installed, or

 intent to install, the Zenith upgrade kit,


	


Zenith would know who has bought the modification kit. They would not 

necessarily know, nor would anyone other than the person doing it know, if the 

mod is done from raw stock. There is no requirement for anyone to state their 

intent to install or not to install the modification; hence there is no 

reliable source for this information.



 	  Quote: 	
		   5. Engine installed or being considered,


	


Only for Xls licensed as XLs and already completed. There is no registry of 

what someone may intend to do. I intend to install a Continental O200. I have 

an engine sitting here, ready to overhaul. What if I suddenly found a dirt 

cheap Rotax, cheaper than the cost of the overhaul of the Continental? I might 

very well change my mind.



 	  Quote: 	
		   6. Zenith airframe only options installed,


	


Again, Zenith knows what options they've sold. They do not necessarily know 

what standard options someone may have fabricated themselves.



 	  Quote: 	
		   7. Owner designed airframe options installed.


	


I am not aware of any records of this type being kept. For one thing, what 

counts as an option? As of this moment, I'm installing nutplates so I can 

remove the cover on the center console, instead of riveting in in place, for 

ease of later maintenance. Is this an option? Beats me.



One of the advantages we enjoy in this still relatively free country is that 

we can build our own aircraft, install options, and make changes that reflect 

our own individual wants and needs. But that means that few of these aircraft 

are exactly alike, and also, that no one is keeping careful records of all the 

configurations. A lot of money could be spent keeping this kind of information, 

which is probably why it doesn't exist.

-- 

========================================

                                       Jim B. Belcher

                                       BS,MS Physics

                                            A&P/IA

                      General Radio Telephone Certificate

                               Instrument Rated Pilot

                     Retired Aerospace Technical Manager

                         Semi-proficient Househusband

========================================

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: 601XL mod list?

Hi Walt



I do not know of any such list as your No. 1. Anyone could compile at least 

a partial list of completed 601XL's by searching the FAA registration 

database for 601XL. I think the list would be partial because one need not 

register an E-AB airplane by the model name. E.g., you could register your 

airplane as a "Walt's Cruiser" or whatever. That said, it is likely that 

most kit built E-AB's are registered by the model name. A clever person 

could likely write some sort of database query software that would 

automatically extract the specific information you want from the database, 

but that is way beyond my skill level.



The only people who could ID 601XL builders would be Zenair. They should 

know to whom they sold kits and plans, plus they should have a record of 

transferred serial numbers. I doubt they'd part with that information.



The "old" Zenair builder database was somewhat searchable for builders. I 

do not know whether it is still on line. I know that my personal access to 

that database was terminated in late '08 or early '09, but others still had 

access at that time. However, that database was voluntary, and probably far 

from complete.



I'm sure that the other information you want has never been collected.



Meanwhile, I'm very happy to see from your signature that you decided not 

to sell your project and that you are on the upgrade path. I am very 

optimistic that the upgrade will be successful.



Enjoy the build.



Terry

At 09:12 AM 5/7/2010 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is there a list available, on this site or another, that has the some or 

all of the following info?



1. All 601XL's completed in the United States, by N number, owners name, 

and city/state of residence,



2. All 601XL's in the U.S. that have had the Zenith upgrade kit installed 

and are back in the air,



3. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. by owners name and 

city/state of residence,



4. All 601XL's under construction in the U.S. that have installed, or 

intent to install, the Zenith upgrade kit,



5. Engine installed or being considered,



6. Zenith airframe only options installed,



7. Owner designed airframe options installed.



Walt Carey

Beavercreek, OH

601XL under construction

Upgrade kit ordered

Jabiru 3300A


	




Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

ZU-601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail & flaps are done;

Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

careywf(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: 601XL mod list?

Thanks for the reply Jim. Was wondering if there was any possibility of charting and posting the info I asked about so we 601XL builders/flyers could keep keep up with how the Zenith mods for the 601XL are working out. Walt. 

---

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: Re: 601XL mod list?

Could it be that registering an aircraft with a name that includes words like "Zodiac" or "601XL" is a bad idea...?



Eventually somebodies going to fly an *upgraded* Zodiac into a thunderstorm, or run out of fuel, or stall/spin while landing at Oshkosh, or have a heart attack, or hit a goose, or something...  



Then what....?  



Given the scrutiny that the Zodiac has been under, could the FAA respond with a politically driven knee-jerk reaction and *permanently* ground all the other perfectly airworthy Zodiacs...?



So here's the $64k question:  Would the "Walt's Cruisers" be insulated from that sort of thing...?



Is there any good reason NOT to register a Zodiac as something else?  



Pat

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

careywf(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: 601XL mod list?

My main reason for the original posting where I asked readers if there was any way to track modified Zenith 601XL's was so 601XL builders/flyers could see who and how many had finished the installation and were again flying. The additional questions I had were for info purposes only. Wouldn't it be nice to see the modified and flying again 601XL's list grow day by day? Would be  great confidence builder for us still working on our airplanes. Walt

---

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: 601XL mod list?

Hi Pat,



I understand your concern, but my issues are a little different from yours.



I don't think the FAA will ground the entire experimental fleet.  They did

that once (sort of) when the AMD change package was issued, but that was an

overreaction from the FAA (in my opinion) because they dragged their feet

when the NTSB asked for the whole fleet to be grounded last April.



For the most part, the decision to fly or not to fly an experimental plane

in the USA is solely up to the owner/operator.  Changing the name makes no

difference in this.



It is the owner/operator decision that is really the big issue here.  The

current upgrade package apparently strengthens the XL airframe, but it is

really unknown whether this fixes anything.  This is because there is no

known problem to fix.  The statistics make me believe there is a serious

design flaw in the Zodiac XL (prior to the upgrade), but I don't know what

the problem is.



My own decision is to install the upgrade in my XL and to put into phase I

testing.  I have not yet decided whether I will ever promote it to phase II.

That will most likely depend on my own interpretation of the fleet-wide

accident experience after the upgrades.  It will probably be at least a year

from now before I decide.  If there are 2 or more structure failures, world

wide, after upgrades then I will probably scrap my XL.  If there are none, I

will either put into normal operation or just wait a while longer before

deciding.  I wish I had a better way to make this life-and-death decision,

but I don't.



Paul

Installing upgrade.

--

- The Matronics Zenith601-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith601-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum