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Realistic price for 914F3?

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zwakie

Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

Someone informed me about a Rotax 914F3 that will be coming up for sale in the near future.



I was told that this fully certified engine:

- currently runs on a certified airplane

- will be taken off due to TBO coming up shortly (year of build: 1998)

- is in perfect shiny state ("looks like brand new")

- has 400 hours TT on the clock

- will be delivered with all parts and documentation that you would get when buying a new 914F3

- will receive a 600 hrs interval inspection and maintenance before it is being sold

- has all SB's/TM's completed

- has flown appr. 30 hours each year, without extended periods of non-running

- has always been maintained according to Rotax maintenance schedules



To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity to have a certified engine for a homebuilt. But.... since I have not built my Europa myself, I have no clue about prices of engines. 



I would therefore highly appreciate all input I can get from the Europa-community on the subject of price: what do you think would be a realistic price for this engine based on above description?

_________________
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR

zwakie

Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

Anyone out there who can give me some direction on this?



 	  zwakie wrote: 	
		  Someone informed me about a Rotax 914F3 that will be coming up for sale in the near future.



I was told that this fully certified engine:

- currently runs on a certified airplane

- will be taken off due to TBO coming up shortly (year of build: 1998)

- is in perfect shiny state ("looks like brand new")

- has 400 hours TT on the clock

- will be delivered with all parts and documentation that you would get when buying a new 914F3

- will receive a 600 hrs interval inspection and maintenance before it is being sold

- has all SB's/TM's completed

- has flown appr. 30 hours each year, without extended periods of non-running

- has always been maintained according to Rotax maintenance schedules



To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity to have a certified engine for a homebuilt. But.... since I have not built my Europa myself, I have no clue about prices of engines. 



I would therefore highly appreciate all input I can get from the Europa-community on the subject of price: what do you think would be a realistic price for this engine based on above description?

_________________
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR

acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 3:45 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

I do not think that Rotax had any "certified" engines in 1998.... Check the serial number, if it has UL after the serial number then it is not certified...at least to my thinking....  

  

 Here in the U.S. if you install a "certified" engine in a experimential airplane then the engine becomes a non certified engine..Or words to that effect.

  

 I know some of the 912 S series of engines installed in the Light Sport airplanes are certified, I have not seen any 914 engines installed in certified light sport airplanes.....

  

 In 1998 Rotax did not have any TBO's on their engines, sometime in the mid-2000 they started showing TBO on the light sport aircraft and I think all of the Light Sport a/c are equiped with the 912 S series of engines.

  

 These are my thoughts, as to your questions... I have operated a 914 since 2000 when I started flying a monowheel with a 914..At that time Rotax did  not have any certified engines..

  

 Jim Brown

 N398JB

 

   From: zwakie <mz(at)cariama.nl>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 5:03:37 AM

Subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?



--> Europa-List message posted by: "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl (mz(at)cariama.nl)>



Anyone out there who can give me some direction on this?

zwakie wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Someone informed me about a Rotax 914F3 that will be coming up for sale in the near future.

 

 I was told that this fully certified engine:

 - currently runs on a certified airplane

 - will be taken off due to TBO coming up shortly (year of build: 1998)

 - is in perfect shiny state ("looks like brand new")

 - has 400 hours TT on the  clock

 - will be delivered with all parts and documentation that you would get when buying a new 914F3

 - will receive a 600 hrs interval inspection and maintenance before it is being sold

 - has all SB's/TM's completed

 - has flown appr. 30 hours each year, without extended periods of non-running

 - has always been maintained according to Rotax maintenance schedules

 

 To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity to have a certified engine for a homebuilt. But.... since I have not built my Europa myself, I have no clue about prices of engines. 

 

 I would therefore highly appreciate all input I can get from the Europa-community on the subject of price: what do you think would be a realistic price for this engine based on above description?


	




--------

Marcel

(Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON)





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299335#299335[b]

                [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

I believe the F models were indeed certificated, although I was unaware 

of a 914F.



The Diamond Katana aircraft used a certificated 912 starting in about 1994

_________________
Ira N224XS

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

Just out of curiousity, what certified aircraft used this Rotax 914?



A Stemme? A super Dimona?



In the US at least, the certification status of an engine adds nothing

to its value in homebuilt applications

_________________
Ira N224XS

stranfaer(at)btinternet.c
Guest

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

Marcel



Second user engines are really difficult to value and its really what are

you prepared to pay?



However personally I would have thought that between £5K and £8  for what

you have described, am sure that someone will chip in with either more or

less of a figure, anyhow have chucked a stone in the pond so let's see where

the ripples go?



As far as I am aware certainly here in UK if you put a certified engine into

a permit aircraft it then becomes non certified? Will have a great

maintenance record though, probably better than most permit engines? A

flying buddy of mine replaced a 912UL from his certified aircraft with a

replacement exchange engine from Austria/Germany and they were credited less

than £3K for it (had done 800Hrs)!



rgds

Dave Joyce (The other one, former co owner of G-BWON)



 

Sent to you from David Joyce

www.eastmidsspas.com



--

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

On 05/30/2010 03:24 PM, rampil wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Just out of curiousity, what certified aircraft used this Rotax 914?

 

 A Stemme? A super Dimona?

 

 In the US at least, the certification status of an engine adds nothing

 to its value in homebuilt applications


	


It will devaluate the engine, as the maintenance of homebuilt aircraft

is not considered "certified maintenance", hence the engine will loose

its certification.

There is no technical difference between a certified Rotax and a

non-certified Rotax.



Frans

tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:19 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

Hello Jim,

I am an Australian builder about to install a 914. Could you pls tell

Me if yours uses a standard Europa fuel supply setup? If u built your a/c

And have any specific advice about this engine install

I am like a dry sponge at the moment.

Reg

Tony Renshaw 

Sydney Aussie 



On 30/05/2010, at 9:44 PM, Jim Brown <acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM (acrojim7534(at)YAHOO.COM)> wrote:



[quote]I do not think that Rotax had any "certified" engines in 1998.... Check the serial number, if it has UL after the serial number then it is not certified...at least to my thinking....  

  

 Here in the U.S. if you install a "certified" engine in a experimential airplane then the engine becomes a non certified engine..Or words to that effect.

  

 I know some of the 912 S series of engines installed in the Light Sport airplanes are certified, I have not seen any 914 engines installed in certified light sport airplanes.....

  

 In 1998 Rotax did not have any TBO's on their engines, sometime in the mid-2000 they started showing TBO on the light sport aircraft and I think all of the Light Sport a/c are equiped with the 912 S series of engines.

  

 These are my thoughts, as to your questions... I have operated a 914 since 2000 when I started flying a monowheel with a 914..At that time Rotax did  not have any certified engines..

  

 Jim Brown

 N398JB

 

   From: zwakie <mz(at)cariama.nl (mz(at)cariama.nl)>

To: [url=mailto:europa-list(at)matronics.com]europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 5:03:37 AM

Subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?



--> Europa-List message posted by: "zwakie" <[url=mailto:mz(at)cariama.nl]mz(at)cariama.nl (mz(at)cariama.nl)[/url]>



Anyone out there who can give me some direction on this?

zwakie wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Someone informed me about a Rotax 914F3 that will be coming up for sale in the near future.

 

 I was told that this fully certified engine:

 - currently runs on a certified airplane

 - will be taken off due to TBO coming up shortly (year of build: 1998)

 - is in perfect shiny state ("looks like brand new")

 - has 400 hours TT on the  clock

 - will be delivered with all parts and documentation that you would get when buying a new 914F3

 - will receive a 600 hrs interval inspection and maintenance before it is being sold

 - has all SB's/TM's completed

 - has flown appr. 30 hours each year, without extended periods of non-running

 - has always been maintained according to Rotax maintenance schedules

 

 To me this sounds like a perfect opportunity to have a certified engine for a homebuilt. But.... since I have not built my Europa myself, I have no clue about prices of engines. 

 

 I would therefore highly appreciate all input I can get from the Europa-community on the subject of price: what do you think would be a realistic price for this engine based on above description?


	




--------

Marcel

(Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON)





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299335#299335

           	  Quote: 	
		  [b]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

Just a thought if it was certified and the aeroplane used for training in

the UK then it will have been run on AVGAS 100LL for its entire life.  Not

good!



Pete



--

zwakie

Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

Thanks to all for the input and 'warnings'. 



I am aware that the main benefit of acquiring a certificated engine are the availability of maintenance logs. I hadn't yet thought about the engine loosing is certification status, but seems quite logical (and even obvious) to me.



(at) rampil: Good guess, the engine coming up for sale is currently operated on a Super Dimona 



(at) David: Thanks for throwing that stone. I hope you are right, and others will throw a price-expectation in. 



(at) Pete: good point, something to look into, thanks!



Maybe it's worthwhile if others can provide a realistic price for the 914UL version...

_________________
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR

DanBish

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 29
Location: TUCSON, AZ

Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

I bought a new, in-the-crate, 914F in Jan of 2006 for $18k. At the time, they were going for around $30k but I totally discount the fact that it's certified for the earlier stated reason that in an experimental, it doesn't retain it's status. 



Granted, I got extremely lucky- this guy just happened to be retiring and was closing his shop and had 2 914's and 6 912's that he was selling off. He'd been doing contract work for the DOD on the Predator program. But even still, for a used one I don't think I'd pay more than $10k unless it was able to be verified that it was extremely low use.



My 2 cents,

Dan

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 242

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:51 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

Having had experience with Rotax engines ran on only Avgas 100LL l would estimate you have a high chance of big expenses well before TBO.  Hence price l would recommend is around â‚¬4000-4500.  Obviously check the compressions and analyse the oil/filter before committing.

zwakie

Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Realistic price for 914F3?

Thanks to all that gave advise and things to be careful about. One more question, if someone would be answer this one, I think I have some realistic ground to base my decision on:



How would the price of an engine that has only run on AVGAS relate to one that only took unleaded fuel, is it in the region of 1/3rd, one half, 2/3rds?

_________________
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR

n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: Realistic price for 914F3?

Marcel,

This most likely won't be of much help, but having said that...

I have a brand new, still pickled 914 that was purchased from CPS in 

California 10/20/2004 that CPS says I should be asking $25,000 for OBO. 

I will be putting it and everything else back on Barnstormers web site 

in the next few days.



Ralph



On 6/1/2010 10:41 AM, zwakie wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks to all that gave advise and things to be careful about. One more question, if someone would be answer this one, I think I have some realistic ground to base my decision on:



 How would the price of an engine that has only run on AVGAS relate to one that only took unleaded fuel, is it in the region of 1/3rd, one half, 2/3rds?



 --------

 Marcel

 (Classic Tri-Gear PH-MZW - formerly G-BWON)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299588#299588

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