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AVGAS Prices

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allenc3(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

I just put 30 gal of avgas in my Tiger today, $5.15 a gal (over $150.00). I

am wondering now what I am going to do with it when gas hits $10.00 or

$15.00 a gal. I certainly won't be flying it except on special occasions.



Guess I can turn my hanger into a museum so people can look at what we used

to do in the good old days (I will put my 2004 Hemi Powered Pickup Truck in

their too).



I see a lot of Tigers now going on sale. This must be a part of the reason.



I hope I can afford to fly 68B to Texas in July........... May have to drive

my wife's Diesel Jetta, which I have converted to run on McDonalds used

french fry oil.........................................



Claude



I posted this to the OTHER board: Bounced it as NOT Grumman Specific. I 

thought all Grummans use gas of some sort...

mattd(at)drahz.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

I think we are all going to be more European in our approach to flying - 

long distance will be a 2 hour flight with an overnight stay (of course, 

on the Continent, you can cover many countries in two hours!)



I have gotten mighty "economy minded" when I fly - maybe its time create 

some economy charts and find the best-efficiency altitude and 

horsepower...(Flying through France - I do remember a $250.00 fuel bill 

to top off a Tiger...)

/drahz

Claude & Verna Allen wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I just put 30 gal of avgas in my Tiger today, $5.15 a gal (over $150.00). I

am wondering now what I am going to do with it when gas hits $10.00 or

$15.00 a gal. I certainly won't be flying it except on special occasions.

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/21/06 4:14:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

allenc3(at)bellsouth.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   (I will put my 2004 Hemi Powered Pickup Truck in

  their too).

  

  I see a lot of Tigers now going on sale. This must be a part of the reason.

  

  I hope I can afford to fly 68B to Texas in July........... May have to 

drive
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    my wife's Diesel Jetta, which I have converted to run on McDonalds used

  french fry oil.........................................

  

  Claude

================================
	


I could have told you that!  That what?  That unless you own our own business 

you could not afford to run a Hemi!  Runs ONLY on Supper huh!  That's why I 

put a 409 in my 53 Ford.



So you converted your diesel ... Gee, I wonder how you did that?  All you 

have to do is refine the french fry oil ... Not the engine.  Only other problem 

is cost of refining brings up the cost of used french fry oil up to gas prices.



So when is the dumb government and environmentalist going to wise up and let 

business develop more refineries?

And don't give me that BS about GasAlcohol.



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

PS

I purposely spelt french fries in lower case.

gilalex(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

I took an MS Excel performance chart for the Tiger (off the other list) and 

modified it to show power settings - density altitude and miles per gallon.



If anyone is interested in a copy, it is here....



http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/Tiger/



called "performance chart.xls"



Except for high power settings at low altitudes - not applicable to me 

since I live at 3000 ft in a warmer than average climate, the MPG does not 

really alter that much...



At 11,000 ft, 2500 rpm, 123 kts    gets 16.0 mpg



At   6,000 ft, 2450 rpm, 123.5 kts  and 15.35 mpg   (interpolating)



4% worst mpg, same speed, but you would use more gas climbing the extra 

5,000 ft.



gil in Tucson      90F tomorrow... summers on the way.....



At 01:43 PM 4/21/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I think we are all going to be more European in our approach to flying -

long distance will be a 2 hour flight with an overnight stay (of course,

on the Continent, you can cover many countries in two hours!)



I have gotten mighty "economy minded" when I fly - maybe its time create

some economy charts and find the best-efficiency altitude and

horsepower...(Flying through France - I do remember a $250.00 fuel bill

to top off a Tiger...)

/drahz

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/22/06 2:39:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   At 11,000 ft, 2500 rpm, 123 kts    gets 16.0 mpg

  

  At   6,000 ft, 2450 rpm, 123.5 kts  and 15.35 mpg   (interpolating)

  

  4% worst mpg, same speed, but you would use more gas climbing the extra 

  5,000 ft.

  

  gil in Tucson 

===========================
	


Gil:



Why are you using MPG, instead of GPH?  



I know, you are just trying to confuse me ... Hey!  It does not take much.



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

gilalex(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

Barry... just trying to determine the least fuel used for distance 

travelled....  and hence get the lowest fuel cost component of that $150 

hambuger.

Gallons per hour (which was on the original chart) does not take speed into 

account, so I hid that column (GPH) on the spread sheet and made a new MPG 

column...

To put it in common automotive terms, I mixed units and used statute miles 

and not nautical miles.

The Tiger is in the MPG range of a large SUV, but travels 2 to 3 times 

faster and takes a straight line....

gil in Tucson

At 04:35 AM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

In a message dated 4/22/06 2:39:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:

 > At 11,000 ft, 2500 rpm, 123 kts    gets 16.0 mpg

 >

 >  At   6,000 ft, 2450 rpm, 123.5 kts  and 15.35 mpg   (interpolating)

 >

 >  4% worst mpg, same speed, but you would use more gas climbing the extra

 >  5,000 ft.

 >

 >  gil in Tucson

===========================

Gil:

Why are you using MPG, instead of GPH?

I know, you are just trying to confuse me ... Hey!  It does not take much.

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

flyv35b(at)ashcreekwirele
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

Gil, I'm not sure where you got these numbers from but they look awfully 

optimistic and don't agree with the POH for the Tiger.



At standard temp of 3 C and 6000 ft. and 2450 rpm the POH shows 9.25 gph 

(interpolation) and that would provide 13.35 nmpg.  8000 ft at 2600 rpm 

results in 132 kts and 10 gph or 13.2 nmpg.  Not much different and nearly 

10 kts. faster.  This is over 2 nmpg less than what you mentioned and more 

in line with what I've seen on numerous stock Tigers.



Actually, these numbers are very close to what I get in my "gas guzzling" 

Bonanza at 160 kts operating at peak or on the lean side of peak EGT.  I 

would imagine that Gary is doing noticeably better with those HC pistons and 

reduced drag.  FYI a typical RV-8, -9, -7 will do about 20 nmpg at 160 kts. 

I've flown formation with them for hundreds of miles and the fuel 

consumption is 2/3 of what it is in my Bonanza OR a Tiger.



Cliff

---

flyv35b(at)ashcreekwirele
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

 	  Quote: 	
		   To put it in common automotive terms, I mixed units and used statute miles

 and not nautical miles.

 No wonder your #'s came out optimistic - you mixed the units and the mpg is 
	


statute!



Cliff

---

gilalex(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

Yeah... I don't usually mix units, but I thought automotive terms would be 

good in this case.

Sorry for the confusion......

gil A

At 07:42 AM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

<flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com>

 > To put it in common automotive terms, I mixed units and used statute miles

 > and not nautical miles.

  No wonder your #'s came out optimistic - you mixed the units and the mpg is

statute!

Cliff

---

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/22/06 7:10:52 AM, gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The Tiger is in the MPG range of a large SUV, but travels 2 to 3 times

 faster and takes a straight line....

 


	


I went to Lancaster and back (400 miles each way) last week and burned 3.7 

gallons per hour and averaged 72 mph (11 hours round trip) in my Tahoe.   Fuel 

cost was $120.



In my Tiger, the 576 nautical mile round trip takes 4.4 hours, burns about 11 

gph (at that speed), and costs about $200.   



It takes about 2.5 times the length of time to drive as it does to fly.   

I've made this trip many times.   It's cheaper to drive.   



Gary

By-the-Way, if I hammer down, I can cut about 15 minutes on the time to 

Lancaster.   Gas mileage drops from about 20 to 21 miles per gallon to about 18 to 

19 miles per gallon.   If I slow down to the speed limit, I can average 60 mph 

and I get 23 to 24 mpg.   That adds about an hour to the trip.

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/22/06 7:39:19 AM, flyv35b(at)ashcreekwireless.com writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would imagine that Gary is doing noticeably better with those HC pistons

 and

 reduced drag.=A0




	


in miles per gallon, I'm getting about



288 nm * 1.15 miles per nm =3D 331 miles in 2.2 hours =3D 150 mph average. =20

2.2*11

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

gilalex(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

Gary... are you hammering down on the Tiger throttle?

The 11.0 gallons per hour is higher than the book figures and gives you 

13.7 mpg in the Tiger (statute miles)

If you got 16 mpg, your fuel cost would be $170, a little closer.

Your point-to-point Tiger speed is  131 kts.

Do you think the Tiger burns that extra gas in the climb to altitude?

What altitude and rpm do you cruise at for 11.0 gph?

Gil in Tucson

PS ...it's more fun in the Tiger anyway....

PPS my comparison was Tucson to Bakerfield.

10-11 hrs by road - travelling thru LA - could add hours is badly timed

3.7 hours by Tiger - could fly around LA airspace....

The Tiger made a weekend trip possible.

At 11:41 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

In a message dated 4/22/06 7:10:52 AM, gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:

 > The Tiger is in the MPG range of a large SUV, but travels 2 to 3 times

 > faster and takes a straight line....

 >

I went to Lancaster and back (400 miles each way) last week and burned 3.7

gallons per hour and averaged 72 mph (11 hours round trip) in my 

Tahoe.   Fuel

cost was $120.

In my Tiger, the 576 nautical mile round trip takes 4.4 hours, burns about 11

gph (at that speed), and costs about $200.

It takes about 2.5 times the length of time to drive as it does to fly.

I've made this trip many times.   It's cheaper to drive.

Gary

By-the-Way, if I hammer down, I can cut about 15 minutes on the time to

Lancaster.   Gas mileage drops from about 20 to 21 miles per gallon to 

about 18 to

19 miles per gallon.   If I slow down to the speed limit, I can average 60 

mph

and I get 23 to 24 mpg.   That adds about an hour to the trip.

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/23/06 12:09:54 AM, gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Gary... are you hammering down on the Tiger throttle?

 The 11.0 gallons per hour is higher than the book figures and gives you

 13.7 mpg in the Tiger (statute miles)

 If you got 16 mpg, your fuel cost would be $170, a little closer.

 Your point-to-point Tiger speed is=A0 131 kts.



Yes, that's pushing it.   During a climb, i can burn 19.5 gph at near sea
	


level.   If I throttle back to stay with a Cheetah/Traveler, I can get the fuel

burn down to 8 to 8.5 gph at about 128 to 130 knots true.   The

Cheetah/Traveler is burning closer to 10 gph.  



I fly to Lancaster at about 7500 to 9500 feet.   I climb in stages to about

the halfway point because the plane is heavy with fuel.    Level off at 3500

after take-off, 5500 at Columbia, 7500 at Fresno.   On the way back, I have=20to

climb to 7500 to 8500 to get over the Tehachapi Mts.   Then, I use the altitude

to get back the speed on the way back to Auburn.   P pretty much descend the

entire trip, 500 feet at a time.   By Columbia, I'm down to 4500 feet and hold

that to Placerville.   Pattern altitude at Auburn is 2500 feet.

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

aa1bflyboy(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

I didn't know about this thread before I left or I'd have taken better 

notes.

I just drove to Poughkeepsie, NY from Wilmington, DE 210 miles according to 

Yahoo vs. 140 NM via airnav. It took about four hours each way to drive it. 

(nice drive going up Friday but nasty rain coming home; thats why we drove) 

I burnt 19 gal of 87 octane in my Toyota Tacoma 2WD pickup. When I was 

calculating a flight plan earlier in the week before I left I was 

calculating I'd burn about 23.4 gal of fuel; 1.8 hours (at) 6.5 GPH. I have the 

auto fuel STC so the fuel used would be the same, only the qty different. 

Add in the cost of the tolls for the drive and the tiedown fee if charged 

depending on where I landed (I intended on going to KPOU) and the cost 

difference would be a dinner out. My time is worth more than that. BTW that 

is with an AA1B with stock O235-C2C DMA wheelpants and aux fuel tanks... No 

need to refuel unless we did a fair amount of sight seeing while there.

I'm hoping to fly up again soon as I've been told the scenery flying up the 

Hudson is truely awsume. Dicky Betts is playing at the theater we saw Blues 

Traveler at Friday night sometime in May so a trip next month is probable. 

If the WX is right I'll fly... Hope to have the IFR ticket soon... Any Blues 

fans/Grumman pilots out there in the Northeast/MidAtlantic?

Do a lot, get a little;

Do a little, get a lot;

Do nothing, get it all.

Steve Roberts - AA-1B N9664L (at) ILG

Gary... are you hammering down on the Tiger throttle?

The 11.0 gallons per hour is higher than the book figures and gives you

13.7 mpg in the Tiger (statute miles)

If you got 16 mpg, your fuel cost would be $170, a little closer.

Your point-to-point Tiger speed is  131 kts.

Do you think the Tiger burns that extra gas in the climb to altitude?

What altitude and rpm do you cruise at for 11.0 gph?

Gil in Tucson

PS ...it's more fun in the Tiger anyway....

PPS my comparison was Tucson to Bakerfield.

10-11 hrs by road - travelling thru LA - could add hours is badly timed

3.7 hours by Tiger - could fly around LA airspace....

The Tiger made a weekend trip possible.

At 11:41 PM 4/22/2006, you wrote:

 >

 >

 >In a message dated 4/22/06 7:10:52 AM, gilalex(at)earthlink.net writes:

 >

 > > The Tiger is in the MPG range of a large SUV, but travels 2 to 3 times

 > > faster and takes a straight line....

 > >

 >

 >I went to Lancaster and back (400 miles each way) last week and burned 3.7

 >gallons per hour and averaged 72 mph (11 hours round trip) in my

 >Tahoe.   Fuel

 >cost was $120.

 >

 >In my Tiger, the 576 nautical mile round trip takes 4.4 hours, burns about 

11

 >gph (at that speed), and costs about $200.

 >

 >It takes about 2.5 times the length of time to drive as it does to fly.

 >I've made this trip many times.   It's cheaper to drive.

 >

 >Gary

 >By-the-Way, if I hammer down, I can cut about 15 minutes on the time to

 >Lancaster.   Gas mileage drops from about 20 to 21 miles per gallon to

 >about 18 to

 >19 miles per gallon.   If I slow down to the speed limit, I can average 60

 >mph

 >and I get 23 to 24 mpg.   That adds about an hour to the trip.

v1rotate(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

I have the same viewpoint when commuting from Lancaster to Fresno once a 

week (193 miles each way), but I still fly when I can because the drive just 

wears me out, especially the trip home.  My wife and I plan to move to 

Fresno within year or so.  We've looked at other, shall we say, more 

aesthetically pleasing areas, but it's hard to beat being 15 minutes from 

work and home more nights.  Of course, the plane is financially 

unjustifiable and always has been.  It comes down to how much pain one is 

willing to endure at the pump.  Gary, I moved to a hangar behind your old 

one at Fox.  Nice to have electric.



Bill Kelly



 	  Quote: 	
		   I went to Lancaster and back (400 miles each way) last week...



 It takes about 2.5 times the length of time to drive as it does to fly.

 I've made this trip many times.   It's cheaper to drive.



 Gary

GrummanDude

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Location: Auburn, CA

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: AVGAS Prices

In a message dated 4/24/06 12:51:33 PM, v1rotate(at)verizon.net writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Gary, I moved to a hangar behind your old

 one at Fox.=A0 Nice to have electric.



 Bill Kelly




	


Hey Bill, Glad to hear you're still around.   I moved to Lancaster for work. 

 As far as I can tell, that's the only reason someone would move there.   

Are you going to move into the fly-in community near Fresno?

Gary

_________________
Gary
AuCountry Aviation
Home of Team Grumman

v1rotate(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: AVGAS Prices

Probably not, but I haven't looked there yet.  I did some preliminary 

checking of hangar rents at Chandler.  They seem to be cheaper than Fox. 

We'll see.



Bill



 	  Quote: 	
		   Are you going to move into the fly-in community near Fresno?

 Gary

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