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fluttering control surfaces

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:05 pm Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

 	  Quote: 	
		   My experience to kill aileron flutter:

 

 john h

 mkIII 


	




(subject line changed to reflect the proper discussion)



  



Hey John,



 



  On the subject of flutter, do you have elevator balance?  Have you ever experienced elevator flutter in any way?  Plus, same thing for rudder, any fluttering or looseness?



 



Mike Welch

 		 	   		  

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

For some reason those big ole elevators have not  been a problem.

  

 However, many Kolbs of all models seem to  experience rudder flutter.

  

 Normally, rudder flutter starts very subtly, barely  noticeable, until one looks at the wing tip and sees it shuffling fore and  aft.  It can and will get violent if allowed to progress.  Normal  preventive procedure is keep feet on the rudder pedals with a little  pressure.

  

 I have my own theory of why, and how to fix, but  will not go into it now, typing with two fingers.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]      On the subject of flutter, do you    have elevator balance?  Have you ever experienced elevator flutter in any    way?  Plus, same thing for rudder, any fluttering or    looseness?

 

Mike Welch

 

[b]

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:43 am Post subject: Re: fluttering control surfaces

Greg, Whilst not (yet) being a Kolb owner/flyer, I would suggest you take this 'flutter' problem real, real seriously. Flutter can lead to structural failure, and not just of the aileron but of the whole wing ! That's going to really spoil your day ! There are plenty of videos on YouTube that demonstrate how quickly it can escalate and it doesn't take much imagination to see the potential consequences. If it were mine, I'd get those control surfaces balanced so that any flutter potential is way outside your flight envelope. David.

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: Re: fluttering control surfaces

As John says, the only way to stop the rudder from fluttering is to keep your feet on the pedals - or build yourself a counterweight for the rudder similar to what Kolb sells for the ailerons.

Here's mine - takes a LOT of weight to balance that big ol' rudder. Especially if you stick the rear nav light on it - which I would put somewhere else if I had to do it over.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

> As John says, the only way to stop the rudder from fluttering is to keep 

your feet on the pedals - or build yourself a counterweight for the rudder 

similar to what Kolb sells for the ailerons.

 > Richard Pike

Hi Richard/Folks:



Nope.  Keeping feet on pedals and counterbalance weight is not the only way 

to cure rudder flutter.



 I said I wasn't going to explain how I corrected my rudder flutter problem 

because I am still typing with two fingers until the bone heals in my right 

hand, and it takes me 90 forevers to knock out a short email.



Rather than use an oversize counterbalance weight, my fix is clean and 

simple, and allows me to fly my mkIII with feet on the deck and off the 

rudder pedals if I wish, and I do quite often on long cross country flights 

when I get tired and/or uncomfortable.



I use two rudder peddle springs on each pedal.  This effectively does the 

same thing that additional foot pressure does to prevent rudder flutter. 

Quick, cheap, and clean.



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

John --



You need to buy Dragon Naturally Speaking, and then you can just talk to your computer and have it type for you. 



  -- Robert

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:03 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]        I have my own theory of why, and how to fix, but  will not go into it now, typing with two fingers.

 



[b]

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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

Robert:

  

 That would be cool, but the Yankees on the Kolb  List would have a difficult time interpreting my Alabamanese...

  

 You guys would get Hauck overload with all that  capacity for words.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

 [quote]   ---

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

gtaylor35918(at)roadrunne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

I am going to be making me some counter balances, but the only time I had 

the issue was on my first go around the patch, and was on base and I let my 

air speed get to high. I flew around the patch several more times after that 

and had no problems, as long as I keep my airspeed in check the aileron 

flutter is not a problem.

Thanks Greg

---

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: fluttering control surfaces

Greg, I felt the same way. Between laziness and .... well laziness was it I guess.  Then I went on a long leg tour with a FS and an Escapade to a guy's

camp in southern NYS.  Good ride down but got caught up in strong rollers from the big hills.  Airspeed becomes something you can't control.

90 one minute followed by 40.  I had serious flutter and was happy to make it to a flat valley where things became normal again.

The balancers have kept me happy since.

BB



On 23, Jun 2010, at 5:36 PM, gtaylor wrote:



[quote] 

 

 I am going to be making me some counter balances, but the only time I had the issue was on my first go around the patch, and was on base and I let my air speed get to high. I flew around the patch several more times after that and had no problems, as long as I keep my airspeed in check the aileron flutter is not a problem.

 Thanks Greg

 ---

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