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Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

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jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Sabrina,



	The report says:



"FAA review of the in-flight failures did not indicate a single root cause,

but instead implicated the potential combination of several design and

operation aspects. Our preliminary assessments focused on the strength and

stability of the wing structure. Further analysis during the special review

found the loads the manufacturer used to design the structure do not meet

the design standards for a 1,320 lb (600kg) airplane. Static load test data

verifies our conclusion. The special review also identified issues with the

airplane's flutter characteristics, stick force gradients, airspeed

calibration, and operating limitations."



	There is nothing new here.  Their review "did not indicate a single

root cause" and further, the cause was determined to be "the potential

combination of several design and operation aspects."  That means that they

couldn't find the cause and are just speculating on what the real

"potential" situation is among a whole host of possible factors.

  

	This topic is really getting tiring.  Please give it a rest.

Believe what you want to believe, but leave others to their own conclusions.

Jeff Davidson

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Sabrina,

     You are no longer a cute 14 year little girl with a great future in

engineering.  Quit finding new things to harp on.

Jeff



Do not archive  



--

stormyflight(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:04 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Well, I've met her and I think she has a great future in engineering.  I would hire her in a second.



You got my number, Sabrina.



Jim



--- On Thu, 7/29/10, Jeff <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



[quote] From: Jeff <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>

 Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, July 29, 2010, 10:29 PM

 

 "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>

 

 Sabrina,

      You are no longer a cute 14 year

 little girl with a great future in

 engineering.  Quit finding new things to harp on.

 Jeff

 

 Do not archive  

 

 --

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:43 am Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Heck . . . Send me to the fountain of youth to knock off 40 years, get rid

of my wife, and wave your magic wand to make me a nice guy instead of the

#$%^^^# I am and I would ask her to marry me.



Paul



--

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:37 am Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely useless

email train.  Congratulations!

Jeff 



Do not archive



--

JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Sabrina;

                 Stop  trying to be an engineer, you are not qualified to opine on aircraft design  until you have served your time in the industry. CH has served decades of time  in top companies. You with your juvenile opinions as to what makes a good  airplane are very tiresome. So quit it go to MIT and try to learn to be a useful  person to society instead of being a winer. 

  

 Regards,  John



CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300



Cell: 719-494-4567

Home:  303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 7/30/2010 5:39:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  chicago2paris(at)msn.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "Sabrina"    <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>



Mr. Davidson, in my defense



Col.    Russ Schleeh says:



"check 6, she is a charger"



Don't know if    that carries any weight, but I do try...



Hugs to Jim &    Paul...   



Paul...  see you today?



Jim... see you    the 17th on my way back from Edwards?





Read this topic    online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791===============================================

_-=    the  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================

sabrina

Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 170

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issu

Do Not Archive

Last edited by sabrina on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

stormyflight(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Hi Sabrina,



Of course, didn't know you were going to be in town.



Let me know when you plans firm up,

Jim



--- On Fri, 7/30/10, Sabrina <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Sabrina <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>

 Subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, July 30, 2010, 4:38 AM

 

 "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>

 

 Mr. Davidson, in my defense

 

 Col. Russ Schleeh says:

 

 "check 6, she is a charger"

 

 Don't know if that carries any weight, but I do try...

 

 Hugs to Jim & Paul...   

 

 Paul...  see you today?

 

 Jim... see you the 17th on my way back from Edwards?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Email Forum -

 FAQ,

    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 List Contribution Web Site -

               -Matt

 Dralle, List Admin.

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Very well put John,I couldn't put it any better or any clearer my self . Remember" Hire the young, while they still know everything"  Joe N101HD601XL-B

   From: "JohnDRead(at)aol.com" <JohnDRead(at)aol.com>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 1:01:20 PM

Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

 Sabrina;

                 Stop trying to be an engineer, you are not qualified to opine on aircraft design until you have served your time in the industry. CH has served decades of time in top companies. You with your juvenile opinions as to what makes a good airplane are very tiresome. So quit it go to MIT and try to learn to be a useful person to society instead of being a winer. 

 Regards, John

CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300

Cell: 719-494-4567

Home: 303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 7/30/2010 5:39:47 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, chicago2paris(at)msn.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>

Mr. Davidson, in my defense

Col. Russ Schleeh says:

"check 6, she is a charger"

Don't know if that carries any weight, but I do try...

Hugs to Jim & Paul...   

Paul...  see you today?

Jim... see you the 17th on my way back from Edwards?

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=306791#306791== the ties Day =======================              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =======================            - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                         ==========================

[quote]======================

[b]

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Ben,  

      The point is that no smoking gun has been found to be the cause of the XL accidents.  Innovators like you are very welcome and have a valuable place in our Zenith community.  But when someone claims that CH owes them a refund because the design is short of the claims: that has not been shown to my satisfaction.  Clearly, something has been happening with the XL.  People have died.  But the cause has still not been clearly identified.  To claim otherwise is just unethical, juvenile, sophomoric, or whatever.  The upgrade package is a shotgun approach based on the lack of an identified single cause.  Most people accept the upgrade package as resulting in an acceptable design.  Sometimes in life there is no clear answer to our questions.  I don't see any use in furthering this discussion.  This is old stuff.  Let's move on.    

      Can you help with my Jabiru 3300 air plenum baffles?  

Jeff  

   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com

 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:14 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update i ssues.  

  

   

Warning:::  Disclaimer. I am an 801 builder and owner, not a 601 guy, BUT...  

I have had a good experience with Zenith during my build of my 801. About half way through we had an 801 break up in mid air. To say all of us 801 builders were quite concerned is an understatement. We have since learned is was pilot error breaking apart a possible weakened tail from an earlier mod.   

1- Sabrina has every right to speak her piece as she is the builder of a 601XL.  

2- When this whole fiasco started the common blame was " it was a homebuilt airframe and it was not put together correctly". Then we had a factory one fail in the exact same manner. The new spin was " it was pilot error and they flew it too fast.... Then the Yuba   city crash was documented with radar returns that show the speed was below VA and the same failure repeated itself. Hhmmm.  

I am a pretty vocal person and most on this list know how I feel on posted topics.  

Just Yesterday I got a rather cold reception when I visited the Zenith booth at Osh.  

Are they ticked at me for saying what I do ?  Most probably.  

For all you people, including Zenith Aircraft Company, who persist in claiming there is NO problem with the design and state  Chris Heintz has decades of engineering experience so he is right and others are wrong are in denial of the facts.    

So I guess my question is this. If the 601XL is so safe and not flawed why has Zenith not displayed it at OSH, or any other airshow for that matter, for two years? What's their concern?   

Seems to me they would display a 601XL, a standard one and an updated one, side by side and answer any and all questions to ease the present and future customers minds.  

Comments guys and gals .... ??

 do not archive

 

 

 

 

 

 m>

 Subject: RE: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:36:49 -0400

 

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff " <jeffrey_davidson(at)earthlink.net>

 

 Well, Sabrina, you have been successful in prolonging this entirely useless

 email train.  Congratulations!

 Jeff 

 

 Do not archive

 

 --

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject: Zenith601-List: Re: Report from OSH on 601xl update issues.

Sabrina,

	I guess that I'm just tired of your jokes.  

Jeff

--

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