Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Starting problems

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

bilhicks(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: Starting problems

Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts.  Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position.  We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark.  Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix?



Sent from my iPhone

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Starting problems

ACS site says it works with "impulse coupled, or retard breaker, mags...". Do you have some form of retarded timing on your mags, for start?

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: Starting problems

Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of

Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a

second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those

points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via

what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia

connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your

symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the

key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and

is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has

the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You

have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC.

Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points

aren't opening correctly.

I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start

documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and

verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to

fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker

points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and

that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you

release the start key, that is not happening.



On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts.  Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position.  We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark.  Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix?



 Sent from my iPhone

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: Starting problems

No first hand experience, but I'm betting that the starter is drawing 

down the battery voltage so that the Slickstart doesn't get it's full 

share.  Measure the voltage at the Slickstart while cranking.  If you 

didn't run a ground wire from the battery to the engine compartment, you 

might entertain doing that now.  If you have the normal Vans 

installation, check for a good connection at the battery ground to the 

airframe ....... get rid of the paint under the lug.

Linn

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:08 pm Post subject: Starting problems

Kellt and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark.  

 Linn

 

 Kelly McMullen wrote: [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> (apilot2(at)gmail.com)



Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of

Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a

second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those

points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via

what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia

connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your

symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the

key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and

is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has

the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You

have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC.

Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points

aren't opening correctly.

I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start

documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and

verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to

fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker

points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and

that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you

release the start key, that is not happening.



On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net> (bilhicks(at)swbell.net) wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net> (bilhicks(at)swbell.net)



Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts.  Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position.  We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark.  Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix?



Sent from my iPhone



    	
   



  	
 [b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: Starting problems

That is possible. I have no problems with the traditional Bendix

vibrator Shower of Sparks on my old Mooney with a Skytec high speed

starter. In fact it starts just fine, hot or cold unless the head

space and timing are not correct between the ears of the pilot. 



On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Kelly and Bob's post got me to thinking ..... it could be that the engine

 cranking speed is higher than the Slickstart wants for retarded spark.

 Linn



 Kelly McMullen wrote:



 



 Since this should be the same wiring as the old Bendix Shower of

 Sparks, or retard breaker system, the start circuit goes through a

 second set of points, the retard points that activate at TDC. If those

 points aren't opening and closing correctly, or aren't hooked up via

 what looks like a second "P lead" which will have a smaller dia

 connector, then you aren't getting a spark during cranking. Your

 symptoms are a classic on retard breaker system. When you release the

 key from start position it goes back to normal firing of both mags and

 is starting on that. When you are cranking only the left mag that has

 the retard breaker points is supposed to fire, and only at TDC. You

 have something that is preventing that firing from happening at TDC.

 Either the ignition switch isn't wired correctly, or the retard points

 aren't opening correctly.

 I'd go back to the documentation for your left mag, your Slick Start

 documentation, and the wiring diagram for the ignition switch and

 verify all of it. I don't know, perhaps the slick start is supposed to

 fire both mags, maybe it can do it without using the retard breaker

 points, but you need to verify that it is being triggered at TDC, and

 that there is spark at the plugs at TDC. If it only fires when you

 release the start key, that is not happening.



 On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net> wrote:

 



 Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4

 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts.  Engine

 eventually starts just as you release key from start position.  We have

 checked the slick start and it is putting out spark.  Any one have similar

 situation and if so did find a fix?



 Sent from my iPhone

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:19 pm Post subject: Starting problems

Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points get worn.Â  That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e., as little as 100 hours.Â  Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions.Â  Even retarded as much as one or two degrees after TC should be OK.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net (bilhicks(at)swbell.net)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: William Hicks <bilhicks(at)swbell.net (bilhicks(at)swbell.net)>

 

 Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts. Â Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position. Â We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark. Â Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix?

   

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 ===========

 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

 [b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

kdbelue(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: Starting problems

I had the same starting problem. I found that the start switch was wired wrong so the retard breaker was not working and both mags fired at 25 BTDC. Rewired switch and it starts correctly.

Kevin



Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 14, 2010, at 4:17 PM, Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com (dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]Engines with SlickStart get really hard to start when the retard points get worn.  That can happen on some mags with very little time in service, i.e., as little as 100 hours.  Check the condition of the retard points and time them per the instructions.  Even retarded as much as one or two degrees after TC should be OK.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 12:24 PM, William Hicks <[url=mailto:bilhicks(at)swbell.net]bilhicks(at)swbell.net (bilhicks(at)swbell.net)[/url]> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    --> RV10-List message posted by: William Hicks <[url=mailto:bilhicks(at)swbell.net]bilhicks(at)swbell.net (bilhicks(at)swbell.net)[/url]>

 

 Couple of us with dual mags, no impulse couplers, slick start on io540 d4 a5, are having starting problems on both cold and hot starts.  Engine eventually starts just as you release key from start position.  We have checked the slick start and it is putting out spark.  Any one have similar situation and if so did find a fix?

   

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 ===========

 " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

 

	


[b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum