Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Yet another covering option

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Yet another covering option

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:24 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

For those who are interested, my neighbor, Richard Geide, published on article in the September 1980 issue of "Sport Aviation" called, "Low Cost Coverage" detailing a system he documented using polyurethane varnish as the encapsulating agent. The only trouble I can see is that most of the products he used are no longer available so anyone wishing to try it would have to use his work as a starting point. The article can be found at EAA.org by searching the Sport Aviation archives. 

 He has covered three aircraft using his process, two of which he still owns and flies regularly. 

Dick's airplanes, a Head Wind and a design of his own, are both direct drive VW powered and he built the engines for both aircraft, too. He was an engineer with Cessna doing structures and aero work before retiring. 79 years young, he flies in the mornings a couple of days a week. He's right across the runway from me so I can see whenever his hangar is open and I try to get over for a chat.

 



Rick Girard

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

Since it is in the Members Only area of their web site I don't know if this link will work but here it is, anyway:



http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/1980_09_19.pdf

 



[url=http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/1980_09_19.pdf][/url]Rick



On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]For those who are interested, my neighbor, Richard Geide, published on article in the September 1980 issue of "Sport Aviation" called, "Low Cost Coverage" detailing a system he documented using polyurethane varnish as the encapsulating agent. The only trouble I can see is that most of the products he used are no longer available so anyone wishing to try it would have to use his work as a starting point. The article can be found at EAA.org by searching the Sport Aviation archives. 

  He has covered three aircraft using his process, two of which he still owns and flies regularly. 

Dick's airplanes, a Head Wind and a design of his own, are both direct drive VW powered and he built the engines for both aircraft, too. He was an engineer with Cessna doing structures and aero work before retiring. 79 years young, he flies in the mornings a couple of days a week. He's right across the runway from me so I can see whenever his hangar is open and I try to get over for a chat.

  



Rick Girard

   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:38 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

Or, even easier yet, here's the article as an attachment.Can anyone tell it's oh dark 30 and Rick is having trouble sleeping again?

Rick



On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Since it is in the Members Only area of their web site I don't know if this link will work but here it is, anyway: 



http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/1980_09_19.pdf

 



[url=http://www.oshkosh365.org/saarchive/eaa_articles/1980_09_19.pdf][/url]Rick

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  For those who are interested, my neighbor, Richard Geide, published on article in the September 1980 issue of "Sport Aviation" called, "Low Cost Coverage" detailing a system he documented using polyurethane varnish as the encapsulating agent. The only trouble I can see is that most of the products he used are no longer available so anyone wishing to try it would have to use his work as a starting point. The article can be found at EAA.org by searching the Sport Aviation archives. 

   He has covered three aircraft using his process, two of which he still owns and flies regularly. 

Dick's airplanes, a Head Wind and a design of his own, are both direct drive VW powered and he built the engines for both aircraft, too. He was an engineer with Cessna doing structures and aero work before retiring. 79 years young, he flies in the mornings a couple of days a week. He's right across the runway from me so I can see whenever his hangar is open and I try to get over for a chat.

   



Rick Girard

   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Low_Cost_Coverage_by_Dick_Geide.pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

Low_Cost_Coverage_by_Dick_Geide.pdf

Filesize:

706.56 KB

Downloaded:

670 Time(s)

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

one more thought on the matter....   if  someone was looking to buy a plane, and had 2 to choose from,,,, and one was  covered with latex,  and the other with the polly fiber, stits,  method,,,  would that affect the resale value of the  plane?    or the ability to sale the plane.?     would the extra expense now be worth it in the long run?

  

 boyd young

 mkIII,  

   [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Yet another covering option

[quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]one more thought on the matter....   if  someone was looking to buy a plane, and had 2 to choose from,,,, and one was  covered with latex,  and the other with the polly fiber, stits,  method,,,  would that affect the resale value of the  plane?    or the ability to sale the plane.?     would the extra expense now be worth it in the long run?

  

 boyd young

 mkIII,  

   [quote]



I think if the covering was recent, the latex would detract quite a bit, because it would be an unknown quantity. But if they were both at least ten years old, and both appeared to be in equally good cosmetic and airworthy condition, it wouldn't matter as much. Anything older than that, and a lot of people start thinking in terms of maybe it's about time for a new cover anyway. (Might better open it up and check what's inside...)



So if you are thinking you might sell your airplane any time soon, I wouldn't use latex, and from what I have seen on this thread recently, it is very possible that using anything but Stits could be a negative, as apparently the other brands of dope and fabric are not real well known to most folks.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 am Post subject: Re: Yet another covering option

As a buyer/flyer, and not a builder, I can say that for me what type of paint was used was never a consideration. The paint's condition and the fabric's condition mattered but what type of paint was of no concern to me. Perhaps it should be but never has been for me. I may or may not be typical in this regard. No way of knowing for certain.



do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Yet another covering option

Thanks for the interesting ideas.



> So if you are thinking you might sell your airplane any time soon, I wouldn't use latex



I agree with the last few msgs in this thread. Your analysis seems right on, to me.



Several reasons coalesce in generating my level of interest in this process.

1) I am so tight I squeak when I walk

2) I like to have things done well and right, and safely.

3) Materials are expensive and I have never covered a plane before. I wouldn't want to mess up a buncha expensive material.

4) seems to me that after we complete the gluing and shrinking of fabric, we are not really talking about becoming a lawn dart; we are talking about how LONG the fabric will be good. Folks talk about 25 years and such- my current covering is 24 years old and I think it is the original from Kolb. I don't have anywhere near that long. I doubt I have ten good years left. I haven't priced out the Stits process completely. I did chat with the Stuart Systems ppl. They quoted me an estimate of $2000. I don't have infinite money to sling around though I have enough to do a good job. I don't really care what happens to my plane after I'm gone. It looks like I can put a good quality covering on there for MUCH less than $2000. I'll go have fun flying around with the saved money.



But I have NOT made a decision yet as I have several more systems to check out.



GeoB

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:33 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

George, I, too, looked at the Stewart System after watching their excellent series of videos about their covering process. Their prices are truly top drawer. According to the spreadsheets I've kept they run about 35 to 40% more than Polyfiber. Using the Appendix A options and accepting a silver or blue airplane to skip the Poly Spray step (three Polytone top coats have the silver in them) and using HVLP spray methods to extend the coverage (the A & P I work with says all coverage number are based on high pressure spray guns that lose a lot to overspray) and you should be able to do your Firestar complete for about $1200 for all chemicals, generic polyester medium weight cloth, tapes, cloth rivets, drain grommets, and inspection rings and covers. If you elect to do a complete alodine of the aluminum parts and seal them with epoxy before covering to prevent corrosion, add another $150. 



Rick



On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:23 AM, GeoB <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net (gab16(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net (gab16(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 Thanks for the interesting ideas.

 

 > So if you are thinking you might sell your airplane any time soon, I wouldn't use latex

 

 I agree with the last few msgs in this thread. Your analysis seems right on, to me.

 

 Several reasons coalesce in generating my level of interest in this process.

 1) I am so tight I squeak when I walk

 2) I like to have things done well and right, and safely.

 3) Materials are expensive and I have never covered a plane before. I wouldn't want to mess up a buncha expensive material.

 4) seems to me that after we complete the gluing and shrinking of fabric, we are not really talking about becoming a lawn dart; we are talking about how LONG the fabric will be good. Folks talk about 25 years and such- my current covering is 24 years old and I think it is the original from Kolb. I don't have anywhere near that long. I doubt I have ten good years left. I haven't priced out the Stits process completely. I did chat with the Stuart Systems ppl. They quoted me an estimate of $2000. I don't have infinite money to sling around though I have enough to do a good job. I don't really care what happens to my plane after I'm gone. It looks like I can put a good quality covering on there for MUCH less than $2000. I'll go have fun flying around with the saved money.

  

 But I have NOT made a decision yet as I have several more systems to check out.

 

 GeoB

 

 --------

 GeoB

 

 &quot;Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors&quot;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309073#309073

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:01 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

What we need is a couple of you chaps to check out the water based covering systems.  Get a test kit and cover a wooden frame.  Evaluate how it compares to using Stitts.  Some of these systems use a lot of "tanes", and are really bad for you if you breath it, thus suggesting use of a forced air mask breathing system.  Super Flite system I believe uses a lot of "tanes".  Isn't that the system used on Challengers?.  My hangar partners N3-Pup used a system called Blue something which I understood was a water based system. 

 jerb    



 At 03:31 AM 8/17/2010, you wrote:

 [quote]George, I, too, looked at the Stewart System after watching their excellent series of videos about their covering process. Their prices are truly top drawer. According to the spreadsheets I've kept they run about 35 to 40% more than Polyfiber. Using the Appendix A options and accepting a silver or blue airplane to skip the Poly Spray step (three Polytone top coats have the silver in them) and using HVLP spray methods to extend the coverage (the A & P I work with says all coverage number are based on high pressure spray guns that lose a lot to overspray) and you should be able to do your Firestar complete for about $1200 for all chemicals, generic polyester medium weight cloth, tapes, cloth rivets, drain grommets, and inspection rings and covers. If you elect to do a complete alodine of the aluminum parts and seal them with epoxy before covering to prevent corrosion, add another $150.



 Rick



 On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 1:23 AM, GeoB <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net (gab16(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "GeoB" <gab16(at)sbcglobal.net (gab16(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

  Thanks for the interesting ideas.



  > So if you are thinking you might sell your airplane any time soon, I wouldn't use latex



  I agree with the last few msgs in this thread. Your analysis seems right on, to me.



  Several reasons coalesce in generating my level of interest in this process.

  1) I am so tight I squeak when I walk

  2) I like to have things done well and right, and safely.

  3) Materials are expensive and I have never covered a plane before. I wouldn't want to mess up a buncha expensive material.

  4) seems to me that after we complete the gluing and shrinking of fabric, we are not really talking about becoming a lawn dart; we are talking about how LONG the fabric will be good. Folks talk about 25 years and such- my current covering is 24 years old and I think it is the original from Kolb. I don't have anywhere near that long. I doubt I have ten good years left. I haven't priced out the Stits process completely. I did chat with the Stuart Systems ppl. They quoted me an estimate of $2000. I don't have infinite money to sling around though I have enough to do a good job. I don't really care what happens to my plane after I'm gone. It looks like I can put a good quality covering on there for MUCH less than $2000. I'll go have fun flying around with the saved money.



  But I have NOT made a decision yet as I have several more systems to check out.



  GeoB



  --------

  GeoB



  &quot;Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors&quot;



 



 

  Read this topic online here:



   http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309073#309073



 



 



 



  ===========

   arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

  ===========

   http://forums.matronics.com

  ===========

  le, List Admin.

  ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

  ===========



 



  



  	  Quote: 	
		  



Email Forum -



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

http://forums.matronics.com

- List Contribution Web Site -

-Matt Dralle, List Admin.



http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[/b] 	
[b]

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: Yet another covering option

 	  Quote: 	
		  I just done a search on Google for

aircraft covering systems.  It brought up a number of systems. 

Also made another search for water based aircraft covering systems.



Stewart Systems is one that pops up.  See below.  Note their

explanation of water-based versus waterborne.  Has anyone used or

seen the results of this system.  I dislike all the  chemical

exposure with Stitts and others.  

[/b] 	
Stewart Systems Aircraft Fabric Covering is safe for everyone ... Our new, breakthrough coatings are not "water-based"-- they're waterborne

 [quote]  [/b]     [quote][b]

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum