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coop85(at)verizon.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:03 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my wife's comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1706 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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It makes some difference whether you want to design a built-in system,
or whether a portable system will do the job. Different brands vary by
how the flow is regulated. Many of the portable systems have the needle
valve for fine tuning the flow at the top of the cylinder...which won't
work if the tank is located beyond the reach of front seat passengers.
Built-in systems have connectors...kind of like a miniature of your
compressed air shop setup. Downside is each port can leak, and you need
a shut off valve at the tank that you can remotely operate. Unless you
plan on going high all the time, a portable may be more useful. I am
thinking of locating on the center console between the seats, where I
could reach the valves from front seat. But there are many ways to do
this. I already have the system, using in my current flying airplane.
On 8/30/2010 5:01 AM, MARCUS COOPER wrote:
Quote: | I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would
like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my
wife's comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or
have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
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rene(at)felker.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I would recommend you borrow somebody’s portable. But….there is a big difference between constant flow and pulse demand. I installed a Mountain High system. A little pricy, but very nice. Living in the west, we use it on almost every trip. The pulse demand systems use a lot less O2 and do not dry your nose out as much.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MARCUS COOPER
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:01 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: O2 Systems
I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my wife's comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
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dlm46007(at)cox.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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less than $200 for a medical O2 bottle and regulator and Aerox or Skyox
clamps
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Definitely! I had just the constant flow versions for a while, with
the "conserving cannulas". Those aren't nearly as comfortable, with
the balloon cannulas on them. Then I got the Precise Flight conservers
that save more O2, and have a very nice small cannula. Those are
better on O2, and far more comfortable. And as Rene' mentions,
up from there you have Mountain High's systems, which would be
top of the line. Not sure which cannulas they use but I'm betting
they'd be the small ones. Basically, going from the bottom of the
line to the top either gives you more O2 savings, or more comfort,
or both...so your decisions will be based on how often you need
to use O2, and how long your flights will be, and how handy O2
refills are. For me, I fill at my hangar and my bottle can
generally get me through a trip anywhere and back if I use it
well. I may have to fill at a remote site in extreme cases.
The mountain high user would probably use less O2 than me by
a ways yet and be able to make most trips round trip without
a refill. The least appealing would be to just go with a cheap
system, because it'll be much less comfortable, and the O2
won't last as long and if you have 4 people in the plane, you'll
only be able to use it for hopping mountains or short stretches
over buildups or whatever. In O2, comfort and endurance is
really the key for some people, so spend what you need to get
one that you really like, if you buy.
I know the thread was started with the question of renting.
I don't know that it's practical. Cannulas are kind of an
"infection control" type personal device. So you'd probably
have to buy all new cannulas just to rent a bottle and regulator.
I don't know of places that rent systems. If you're mainly
worried about comfort, maybe buy a cannula that's skinny
and the balloon type and just try them on for a while. Yeah,
the O2 is a little dry but if you can handle the cannula,
the O2 isn't a big deal. Oh, and don't forget to definitely
buy an O2 meter for your finger...you'll want to know the O2
setting is good for you and that's the only real way to tell
exactly.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/30/2010 8:13 AM, Rene Felker wrote:
Quote: | I would recommend you borrow somebody’s portable. But….there is a big
difference between constant flow and pulse demand. I installed a
Mountain High system. A little pricy, but very nice. Living in the west,
we use it on almost every trip. The pulse demand systems use a lot less
O2 and do not dry your nose out as much.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *MARCUS COOPER
*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 6:01 AM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* O2 Systems
I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would like
to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my wife's
comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or have any
recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
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dmaib(at)mac.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:36 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Don't know about renting, but imagine that will not be easy. If I was doing it again, I would definitely install a top of the line system in the airplane. We are using a SkyOx portable system that I have owned for many years. It works fine, but is a bit of a pain to deal with securing the bottle and dealing with long lines. Built in would be a must for me at this point. This airplane likes to fly high, so we use it on most trips.
David Maib
40559
Flying
On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:01 AM, MARCUS COOPER wrote:
I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my wife's comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:11 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Marcus,
I installed a built in Aerox O2 system not knowing how much use
it would get. After 170 hours of flight I am VERY pleased to have the system
permanently installed in the -10. I find it quite handy and provides peace
of mind and easy access to O2 even on flights where I hadn’t initially
planned on climbing high enough to need O2. I keep a small plastic box that
contains all my canulas within reach during flight.
My system is basic but with an additional shutoff valve in the center
console. We basically plumbed a main O2 line from the bottles main valve to
a secondary valve in the center console and then plumbed 4 short lines to
the outlets. Because my system does not leak I leave the bottle valve open
all the time and turn on/off the O2 from the secondary valve next to my hip
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I like the portable system because it isxeasily removed for flights where weight is more critical than altitude. We have the big steel SkyOx cylinder and strap it to the tunnel cover from the rear seat backs forward. I don't mind the skybox canulas, but I imagine different ones could be easily made to fit on the low pressure side of the regulator. We've never had problems or complaints.
Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:34 AM, David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com (dmaib(at)mac.com)> wrote:
[quote] Don't know about renting, but imagine that will not be easy. If I was doing it again, I would definitely install a top of the line system in the airplane. We are using a SkyOx portable system that I have owned for many years. It works fine, but is a bit of a pain to deal with securing the bottle and dealing with long lines. Built in would be a must for me at this point. This airplane likes to fly high, so we use it on most trips.
David Maib
40559
Flying
[b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1706 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Unless you are using a LOT of O2, the cost of oxygen is relatively
minor. If you do use a lot, getting your own refill setup and a rental
large bottle begins to make sense. Don't forget that whatever you get
needs to be able to come out every 5 yrs for hydrotesting.
On 8/30/2010 8:16 AM, Jesse Saint wrote:
Quote: | I like the portable system because it isxeasily removed for flights
where weight is more critical than altitude. We have the big steel
SkyOx cylinder and strap it to the tunnel cover from the rear seat
backs forward. I don't mind the skybox canulas, but I imagine
different ones could be easily made to fit on the low pressure side of
the regulator. We've never had problems or complaints.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org <mailto:jesse(at)itecusa.org>
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
www.mavericklsa.com <http://www.mavericklsa.com>
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:34 AM, David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com
<mailto:dmaib(at)mac.com>> wrote:
> Don't know about renting, but imagine that will not be easy. If I was
> doing it again, I would definitely install a top of the line system
> in the airplane. We are using a SkyOx portable system that I have
> owned for many years. It works fine, but is a bit of a pain to deal
> with securing the bottle and dealing with long lines. Built in would
> be a must for me at this point. This airplane likes to fly high, so
> we use it on most trips.
>
> David Maib
> 40559
> Flying
> **
> **
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A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I bought a portable Aerox system and built it into the console between the seats. An E bottle fits perfectly on the tunnel.
The main valve sticks out of the console in the front, and we made a little window so you can see the existing gauge.
The portable system has 4 quick disconnect fittings in the regulator. I plumbed on to the front seats and one to the back seats, then split each one from there. Aerox said splitting the flow would probably work but that they hadn't tested it--I have, and it works fine.
I bought a mixture of their fittings and quick-disconnects from McMaster for the low pressure plumbing.
The console is secured with piano hinge so it comes out pretty easily, which is how we origially filled the bottle. But we use it so often now that I ended up putting a filler hose on it that just stows in the console.
After leaving the main valve on a couple times and wasting several fills, I put closing the valve on the checklist.
We use the Oxysaver cannulas from Aerox. Tim, I looked at Precise Flight "Oxymizer" cannulas and they look very similar if not identical to ours. Do you know if there's a difference? The cannula aren't the most comfortable thing in the world, and the kids hate 'em, but they really conserve the O2.
Finally, not to start a primer war, but we use welding oxygen--as suggested by Aerox.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:01 AM, MARCUS COOPER <coop85(at)verizon.net (coop85(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote] I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my wife's comfort level. Â Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
[b]
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 885 Location: Castro Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: Re: O2 Systems |
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FBO's/clubs that I know of that rent, rent only masks (because they can be easily cleaned with alcohol). As the posts suggests, nasal cannulas are far superior, I would never recommend a mask anymore.
We use the "conserving" cannulas with the little bulb under the nose; I find it so comfortable that I often don't bother removing it on descent; I wait until after landing.
And pulse oxymeters have come down in price, it is very useful to get one. Interesting to watch it in flight; deep breaths are much more effective than shallow ones, in getting your O2 level up, at least for me.
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Hi Dave,
I think they all just buy the same cannulas, but the
difference is between the various types.
Here are the ones I use with my precise flight demand
conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090422/RV20090411144929.jpg
Here are the ones that came with the system before the demand conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20060605/P200606020005.jpg
You can see it's a pretty big difference in overall size. Neither
is what I'd call awfully uncomfortable, but the smaller ones
are definitely nicer.
And I'm right with you on the Welding Oxygen. I have a
fill station in my hangar. I've been going to the same
place for diving/welding/flying gasses now since about
1992 or so, and they fill all bottles of O2 off the
same tap. The differences are in labeling and
fill procedures, but the gas is the same for all.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/30/2010 11:38 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: | I bought a portable Aerox system and built it into the console between
the seats. An E bottle fits perfectly on the tunnel.
The main valve sticks out of the console in the front, and we made a
little window so you can see the existing gauge.
The portable system has 4 quick disconnect fittings in the regulator. I
plumbed on to the front seats and one to the back seats, then split each
one from there. Aerox said splitting the flow would probably work but
that they hadn't tested it--I have, and it works fine.
I bought a mixture of their fittings and quick-disconnects from McMaster
for the low pressure plumbing.
The console is secured with piano hinge so it comes out pretty easily,
which is how we origially filled the bottle. But we use it so often now
that I ended up putting a filler hose on it that just stows in the console.
After leaving the main valve on a couple times and wasting several
fills, I put closing the valve on the checklist.
We use the Oxysaver cannulas from Aerox. Tim, I looked at Precise
Flight "Oxymizer" cannulas and they look very similar if not identical
to ours. Do you know if there's a difference? The cannula aren't the
most comfortable thing in the world, and the kids hate 'em, but they
really conserve the O2.
Finally, not to start a primer war, but we use welding oxygen--as
suggested by Aerox.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:01 AM, MARCUS COOPER <coop85(at)verizon.net
<mailto:coop85(at)verizon.net>> wrote:
I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would
like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my
wife's comfort level. Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or
have any recommendations?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
*
_*
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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OK, I thought it was something similar to the Oxysavers but that's completely different. Do you know how it works to conserve the O2? I'd love to get away from those feed bags.
Plus we'd all be so much more photogenic
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Hi Dave,
I think they all just buy the same cannulas, but the
difference is between the various types.
Here are the ones I use with my precise flight demand
conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090422/RV20090411144929.jpg
Here are the ones that came with the system before the demand conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20060605/P200606020005.jpg
You can see it's a pretty big difference in overall size. Â Neither
is what I'd call awfully uncomfortable, but the smaller ones
are definitely nicer.
And I'm right with you on the Welding Oxygen. Â I have a
fill station in my hangar. Â I've been going to the same
place for diving/welding/flying gasses now since about
1992 or so, and they fill all bottles of O2 off the
same tap. Â The differences are in labeling and
fill procedures, but the gas is the same for all.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/30/2010 11:38 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: |
I bought a portable Aerox system and built it into the console between
the seats. Â An E bottle fits perfectly on the tunnel.
The main valve sticks out of the console in the front, and we made a
little window so you can see the existing gauge.
The portable system has 4 quick disconnect fittings in the regulator. Â I
plumbed on to the front seats and one to the back seats, then split each
one from there. Â Aerox said splitting the flow would probably work but
that they hadn't tested it--I have, and it works fine.
I bought a mixture of their fittings and quick-disconnects from McMaster
for the low pressure plumbing.
The console is secured with piano hinge so it comes out pretty easily,
which is how we origially filled the bottle. Â But we use it so often now
that I ended up putting a filler hose on it that just stows in the console.
After leaving the main valve on a couple times and wasting several
fills, I put closing the valve on the checklist.
We use the Oxysaver cannulas from Aerox. Â Tim, I looked at Precise
Flight "Oxymizer" cannulas and they look very similar if not identical
to ours. Â Do you know if there's a difference? Â The cannula aren't the
most comfortable thing in the world, and the kids hate 'em, but they
really conserve the O2.
Finally, not to start a primer war, but we use welding oxygen--as
suggested by Aerox.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:01 AM, MARCUS COOPER <coop85(at)verizon.net (coop85(at)verizon.net)
<mailto:coop85(at)verizon.net (coop85(at)verizon.net)>> wrote:
  I am considering installing an oxygen system in our RV-10 but would
  like to try it first to evaluate the airplanes performance and my
  wife's comfort level.  Has anyone attempted to rent an O2 system or
  have any recommendations?
  Thanks,
  Marcus
  40286
  do not archive
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sean(at)stephensville.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:23 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Tim, curious as to where you stow/place the little green demand
conserver cylinder. Do you need access to it during flight? The
picture looks like it has a dial on it.
-Sean #40303 (Fuse side skins) (and top-posting cause I like time lapse
to be in reverse )
On 8/30/10 1:45 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
Quote: |
Hi Dave,
I think they all just buy the same cannulas, but the
difference is between the various types.
Here are the ones I use with my precise flight demand
conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20090422/RV20090411144929.jpg
Here are the ones that came with the system before the demand conservers:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20060605/P200606020005.jpg
You can see it's a pretty big difference in overall size. Neither
is what I'd call awfully uncomfortable, but the smaller ones
are definitely nicer.
And I'm right with you on the Welding Oxygen. I have a
fill station in my hangar. I've been going to the same
place for diving/welding/flying gasses now since about
1992 or so, and they fill all bottles of O2 off the
same tap. The differences are in labeling and
fill procedures, but the gas is the same for all.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:33 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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Improperly top posted... (sorry Dj)
Yes, these cannulas work with the demand conservers from
Precise Flight. They have 2 tubes, one I think is a
flow tube and one is a sense tube that senses your inhalation.
The way it works is a one-way inline valve is forced closed
by your exhalation, and opened by the inhalation. I think
that might be all on one tube that it's sensed, but
I'm not sure, I'd have to look. The other tube is just
for flowing the gas. The conserver I have a picture
of here:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/accessories/oxygen/index.html
I think it could be attached to anybody's O2 system.
It's supposed to save 3x-5x the gas over the standard
conserving balloon cannulas I think. The mountain high
stuff conserves even more. But these are an all
mechanical device. You set the altitude on a bezel on
the bottom of the device, or you can set it to constant
flow if you wish. That sets the flow rate you deliver.
Otherwise, the unit just senses your breathing (you
need to breathe through your nose, but that's the only
way you SHOULD breathe using cannulas), and flows only
when you're breathing. That's why it's more conserving.
The bag ones are just filling the little balloons
in between inhale and exhale...which works fine much
of the time but sometimes you'll use more than others, and
the bag may overfill or underfill. It's not a horrible
system, just not set up to flow on demand. The one I
have uses no batteries or electrics to flow it, which
is nice. For a portable system, it's pretty good. Costs
less than Mountain High, but much more than the cheap
systems with simple flowmeters. I think it's about $300-ish
per seat for the demand conservers. But, considering
the nice small cannulas and the conserving O2, I figured
I'd do it. No, it won't probably pay for itself for a
long time, but the feel and stuff has a value, as does
the extra endurance. But for the big spender, you probably
can't beat Mountain High.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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On 8/30/2010 3:54 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
Quote: | OK, I thought it was something similar to the Oxysavers but that's
completely different. Do you know how it works to conserve the O2? I'd
love to get away from those feed bags.
Plus we'd all be so much more photogenic
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2881
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I have little zip bags...I got them from the Lasik place I went
to a few years ago...kind of like mini soft-side lunch boxes,
that I roll up the conserver and cannula and store in.
When we think we'll use O2, I put them by each seat.
Then in flight we open it up, plug into the bottle,
and set the demand thing by us...Andrea's and mine go
on the tunnel between us. From there, I run the cannula
hose up over the seat belt hanger and down to my head.
Keeps the hose coming at us from above. You do need
access to them in flight to set the altitude. Would be
cool to do a more permanent mount but there isn't a really
great way for that. But it works well for a portable unit.
If I were doing fixed mount, I'd just buy a Mountain High
system...if you're hard plumbing it that would be the real
nice way to go.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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On 8/30/2010 4:21 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:
Quote: |
Tim, curious as to where you stow/place the little green demand
conserver cylinder. Do you need access to it during flight? The picture
looks like it has a dial on it.
-Sean #40303 (Fuse side skins) (and top-posting cause I like time lapse
to be in reverse )
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Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 455 Location: Yuma, AZ
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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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[quote]I thought the preferred way was to just have O2 to the pilot so the passengers can sleep through the flight.Albert GardnerN991RVYuma, AZ [b]
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_________________ RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV |
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coop85(at)verizon.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: O2 Systems |
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I've been out of town, but a belated thanks to all for the outstanding
inputs on oxygen systems. I will get one as soon as the piggy bank allows
and the research is complete.
Thanks again,
Marcus
40286
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