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kevino

Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
Location: United States

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:38 am Post subject: Re: performance

Just to add another endorsement of the TT auto trim, i paid the 625 and thought it was a bargain. Makes a huge difference shooting approaches. Also added the safety trim which gives you two trim speeds which smooths out any trim adjustments. I never see any out of trim indicator on the TT.

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: performance

Anyone comment on how much wiring for a retrofit there would be?

Looks like it has a big connector.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 9/21/2010 2:38 PM, kevino wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just to add another endorsement of the TT auto trim, i paid the 625 and thought it was a bargain. Makes a huge difference shooting approaches. Also added the safety trim which gives you two trim speeds which smooths out any trim adjustments. I never see any out of trim indicator on the TT.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313251#313251

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:58 pm Post subject: performance

They have a tech pubs and manuals on their website.  I already looked at 

that, I may have to buy one.  They show both new and retrofit.



---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: performance

I took a quick look yesterday and I am concerned that it would partially

defeat the safety trim I just put in?  It says it must be wired directly to

the trim motors and has a warning about runaway trim?



Need to get the Safety Trim and TT guys together for a solution.....maybe,

or I just have it wrong.



Rene' Felker

N423CF

801-721-6080



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: performance

I didn't do it myself, but I did research it.  My understanding is that you cut the wires going to the servo and both sets go into the auto trim, then there is power and ground and some wires that run to the pitch servo.  I don't think it was a very complicated retrofit, and I'm not sure if any new wires had to be run from the front to the back (controller should go by the AP Pitch Servo, IIRC).

This is just off the top of my head, but I seem to remember that there was a fairly detailed manual that outlines what had to be done.

Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694

On Sep 21, 2010, at 4:46 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Anyone comment on how much wiring for a retrofit there would be?

 Looks like it has a big connector.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 On 9/21/2010 2:38 PM, kevino wrote:

> 

> 

> Just to add another endorsement of the TT auto trim, i paid the 625 and thought it was a bargain. Makes a huge difference shooting approaches. Also added the safety trim which gives you two trim speeds which smooths out any trim adjustments. I never see any out of trim indicator on the TT.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313251#313251

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: performance

See that's my worry too.....if it gets in the way of safety

trim, I won't install it.  If it gets installed before

the safety trim, so it can still only run the trim 3 seconds

at a crack, fine, but I won't put it direct to the motors.

Runaway trim would be just too fast of a thing that could

break up the plane for me to trust that.  I'll have to

get the wiring diagrams and see.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 9/21/2010 4:17 PM, Rene Felker wrote:

[quote] 



 I took a quick look yesterday and I am concerned that it would partially

 defeat the safety trim I just put in?  It says it must be wired directly to

 the trim motors and has a warning about runaway trim?



 Need to get the Safety Trim and TT guys together for a solution.....maybe,

 or I just have it wrong.



 Rene' Felker

 N423CF

 801-721-6080



 --

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: performance

Just a note for those going or considering the Vertical Power that it 

includes a feature like Bob's great product.

***

*Runaway trim protection

* There are two runaway trim protection systems, and one works 

differently on the ground than in the air. If the trim runs for more 

than three seconds in the air, the circuit is disabled. However, you can 

run it indefinitely when on the ground.

***

Also, they have a PDF that shows the inclusion of the Trutrak auto trim 

here: http://www.verticalpower.com/docs/VP_Flap-Trim_Wiring.pdf

I'm not affiliated, I'm just a fan... 

-Sean #40303 (fuse side skins...  still...)

On 9/21/10 4:52 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

[quote] 

 See that's my worry too.....if it gets in the way of safety

 trim, I won't install it.  If it gets installed before

 the safety trim, so it can still only run the trim 3 seconds

 at a crack, fine, but I won't put it direct to the motors.

 Runaway trim would be just too fast of a thing that could

 break up the plane for me to trust that.  I'll have to

 get the wiring diagrams and see.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 On 9/21/2010 4:17 PM, Rene Felker wrote:

> 

>

> I took a quick look yesterday and I am concerned that it would partially

> defeat the safety trim I just put in?  It says it must be wired 

> directly to

> the trim motors and has a warning about runaway trim?

>

> Need to get the Safety Trim and TT guys together for a 

> solution.....maybe,

> or I just have it wrong.

>

> Rene' Felker

> N423CF

> 801-721-6080

>

> --

rnewman(at)tcwtech.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: performance

Regarding the use of Safety-Trim with TruTrak's autotrim feature:     The 

Safety-Trim controller feeds into the TT autotrim module where the switch 

inputs would normally go.    This allows all the benefits of speed control 

and run-away trim prevention provided by the Safety-Trimcontroller  to 

protect the manual control portion of the trim system.   When the autopilot 

needs to trim the plane it effectively takes trim authority away from the 

pilot for just the time required to get the plane trimmed, then returns the 

authority back to the Safety-Trim controller.    The guys from TT will have 

to chime in on their autotrim reliability, I can't provide any details on 

that.    However, we've had zero issues reported with the combined system.

Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs that of 

Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the same.   The 

Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault in the control stick 

switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)  or if you really need more 

than 3 seconds worth of trim, just release the stick switch and press again 

to get up to 3 more seconds worth of trim.  This mode of operation is 

protected by our recently issued patent.     The VP system will disable the 

trim switch during this case and you must use the soft keys on VP control 

system screen to clear the "fault".     This how I understand their system 

to work.



Bob Newman

TCW Technologies, LLC

www.tcwtech.com

builder # 40176

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: performance

Thanks Bob, I should have stated that it was different entirely, but 

was just referring to the 3-second cutoff.  Yours obviously has more 

features.



I am curious as to if there would be anything preventing a Safety-Trim 

from being inline between a VP-200 and TruTrak Auto Trim?  The reason I 

ask is that I'd like the speed change, which I don't believe the VP-200 

has yet.  Would the 3-second VP-200 cutoff interfere with the 

Safety-Trim at all?



VP-200 -> Safety-Trim -> Auto Trim.  Seems like a lot of "things" in 

front of the pitch trim servo. 



-Sean

 	  Quote: 	
		   Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs that 

 of Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the same.   The 

 Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault in the control 

 stick switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)  or if you really 

 need more than 3 seconds worth of trim, just release the stick switch 

 and press again to get up to 3 more seconds worth of trim.  This mode 

 of operation is protected by our recently issued patent.     The VP 

 system will disable the trim switch during this case and you must use 

 the soft keys on VP control system screen to clear the "fault".     

 This how I understand their system to work.



 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder # 40176

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: performance

My mistake.  The VP-200 does adjust trim speed.  Sorry.

On 9/21/10 6:19 PM, bob-tcw wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Regarding the use of Safety-Trim with TruTrak's autotrim feature:     

 The Safety-Trim controller feeds into the TT autotrim module where the 

 switch inputs would normally go.    This allows all the benefits of 

 speed control and run-away trim prevention provided by the 

 Safety-Trimcontroller  to protect the manual control portion of the 

 trim system.   When the autopilot needs to trim the plane it 

 effectively takes trim authority away from the pilot for just the time 

 required to get the plane trimmed, then returns the authority back to 

 the Safety-Trim controller.    The guys from TT will have to chime in 

 on their autotrim reliability, I can't provide any details on that.    

 However, we've had zero issues reported with the combined system.

 Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs that 

 of Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the same.   The 

 Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault in the control 

 stick switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)  or if you really 

 need more than 3 seconds worth of trim, just release the stick switch 

 and press again to get up to 3 more seconds worth of trim.  This mode 

 of operation is protected by our recently issued patent.     The VP 

 system will disable the trim switch during this case and you must use 

 the soft keys on VP control system screen to clear the "fault".     

 This how I understand their system to work.



 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder # 40176

dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: performance

VP does have the speed change at this time. I have had it working on  

my airplane for several months. Works great.



David Maib

40559

Flying





On Sep 21, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:






  Thanks Bob, I should have stated that it was different entirely,  

but was just referring to the 3-second cutoff.  Yours obviously has  

more features.



I am curious as to if there would be anything preventing a Safety- 

Trim from being inline between a VP-200 and TruTrak Auto Trim?  The  

reason I ask is that I'd like the speed change, which I don't believe  

the VP-200 has yet.  Would the 3-second VP-200 cutoff interfere with  

the Safety-Trim at all?



VP-200 -> Safety-Trim -> Auto Trim.  Seems like a lot of "things" in  

front of the pitch trim servo. 



-Sean

 	  Quote: 	
		   Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs  

 that of Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the  

 same.   The Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault  

 in the control stick switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)   

 or if you really need more than 3 seconds worth of trim, just  

 release the stick switch and press again to get up to 3 more  

 seconds worth of trim.  This mode of operation is protected by our  

 recently issued patent.     The VP system will disable the trim  

 switch during this case and you must use the soft keys on VP  

 control system screen to clear the "fault".     This how I  

 understand their system to work.



 Bob Newman

 TCW Technologies, LLC

 www.tcwtech.com

 builder # 40176

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:41 pm Post subject: performance

Ya, I know.  Please ignore everything I post.  It's better for 

everyone that way. 

-Sean

do not archive

On 9/21/10 7:13 PM, David Maib wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 VP does have the speed change at this time. I have had it working on 

 my airplane for several months. Works great.

 David Maib

 40559

 Flying

 On Sep 21, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

  Thanks Bob, I should have stated that it was different entirely, but 

 was just referring to the 3-second cutoff.  Yours obviously has more 

 features.

 I am curious as to if there would be anything preventing a Safety-Trim 

 from being inline between a VP-200 and TruTrak Auto Trim?  The reason 

 I ask is that I'd like the speed change, which I don't believe the 

 VP-200 has yet.  Would the 3-second VP-200 cutoff interfere with the 

 Safety-Trim at all?

 VP-200 -> Safety-Trim -> Auto Trim.  Seems like a lot of "things" in 

 front of the pitch trim servo. 

 -Sean

> Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs that 

> of Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the same.   The 

> Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault in the control 

> stick switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)  or if you really 

> need more than 3 seconds worth of trim, just release the stick switch 

> and press again to get up to 3 more seconds worth of trim.  This mode 

> of operation is protected by our recently issued patent.     The VP 

> system will disable the trim switch during this case and you must use 

> the soft keys on VP control system screen to clear the "fault".     

> This how I understand their system to work.

>

> Bob Newman

> TCW Technologies, LLC

> www.tcwtech.com

> builder # 40176

>

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: performance

Tim and all interested. The auto trim was very easy to install. It does work 

with the TCW safety trim and trims in 3 sec intervals. So far

it has be great and worth every penny as I stated before. It took about 3 

hours to install. I have attached some pictures that hopefully

will help. Also all wiring was done right by the Elevator trim servo. I did 

wire directly into the trim servo wires going back to the trim servo

in the aft end of tailcone.



Geoff

RV-10 N829GW

---

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_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: performance

Actually, keep it coming, you're not the only one who thinks this way.

Pascal



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Stephens" <sean(at)stephensville.com>

Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 5:38 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: performance



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

  Ya, I know.  Please ignore everything I post.  It's better for 

 everyone that way. 

 

 -Sean

 

 do not archive

 

 On 9/21/10 7:13 PM, David Maib wrote:

> 

>

> VP does have the speed change at this time. I have had it working on 

> my airplane for several months. Works great.

>

> David Maib

> 40559

> Flying

>

>

> On Sep 21, 2010, at 7:58 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

>

> 

>

>  Thanks Bob, I should have stated that it was different entirely, but 

> was just referring to the 3-second cutoff.  Yours obviously has more 

> features.

>

> I am curious as to if there would be anything preventing a Safety-Trim 

> from being inline between a VP-200 and TruTrak Auto Trim?  The reason 

> I ask is that I'd like the speed change, which I don't believe the 

> VP-200 has yet.  Would the 3-second VP-200 cutoff interfere with the 

> Safety-Trim at all?

>

> VP-200 -> Safety-Trim -> Auto Trim.  Seems like a lot of "things" in 

> front of the pitch trim servo. 

>

> -Sean

>> Regarding the run-away trim prevention feature of Safety-Trim vs that 

>> of Vertical Power:    Although similiar they are not the same.   The 

>> Safety-Trim system can be reset by clearing the fault in the control 

>> stick switch  (ie the coolie hat or rocker switch)  or if you really 

>> need more than 3 seconds worth of trim, just release the stick switch 

>> and press again to get up to 3 more seconds worth of trim.  This mode 

>> of operation is protected by our recently issued patent.     The VP 

>> system will disable the trim switch during this case and you must use 

>> the soft keys on VP control system screen to clear the "fault".     

>> This how I understand their system to work.

>>

>>

>>

>> Bob Newman

>> TCW Technologies, LLC

>> www.tcwtech.com

>> builder # 40176

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: performance

Keep in mind that you may end up tweaking the adjustment knob a few times to get the autotrim dialed in.  Put it someplace that's not too inconvenient to access.  Once it's dialed in, though, you'll never touch it again.

  Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:40 PM, g.combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)> wrote:

[quote]  Tim and all interested. The auto trim was very easy to install. It does work with the TCW safety trim and trims in 3 sec intervals. So far

 it has be great and worth every penny as I stated before. It took about 3 hours to install. I have attached some pictures that hopefully

 will help. Also all wiring was done right by the Elevator trim servo. I did wire directly into the trim servo wires going back to the trim servo

 in the aft end of tailcone.

 

 Geoff

 RV-10 N829GW

 

 

 ---

jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:08 am Post subject: performance

When you purchase the auto trim ($350) from any of the vendors does it come with any of the wiring or connectors for the retrofit setup?  Jay Rowe

---- Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

[quote] Keep in mind that you may end up tweaking the adjustment knob a few times to

 get the autotrim dialed in.  Put it someplace that's not too inconvenient to

 access.  Once it's dialed in, though, you'll never touch it again.

 

 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters

 140 Aviation Way

 Watsonville, CA 95076

 831-722-9141 Shop

 831-750-0284 Cell

 

 

 On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:40 PM, g.combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>wrote:

 

 > Tim and all interested. The auto trim was very easy to install. It does

 > work with the TCW safety trim and trims in 3 sec intervals. So far

 > it has be great and worth every penny as I stated before. It took about 3

 > hours to install. I have attached some pictures that hopefully

 > will help. Also all wiring was done right by the Elevator trim servo. I did

 > wire directly into the trim servo wires going back to the trim servo

 > in the aft end of tailcone.

 >

 > Geoff

 > RV-10 N829GW

 >

 >

 > ---

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:14 am Post subject: performance

No I had to make my own wire harness. Pretty easy

Geoff



Sent from my iPhone Geoff

On Sep 22, 2010, at 5:05 AM, <jfrjr(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:



[quote] 



 When you purchase the auto trim ($350) from any of the vendors does  

 it come with any of the wiring or connectors for the retrofit  

 setup?  Jay Rowe

 ---- Dave Saylor <dave.saylor.aircrafters(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that you may end up tweaking the adjustment knob a few  

> times to

> get the autotrim dialed in.  Put it someplace that's not too  

> inconvenient to

> access.  Once it's dialed in, though, you'll never touch it again.

>

> Dave Saylor

> AirCrafters

> 140 Aviation Way

> Watsonville, CA 95076

> 831-722-9141 Shop

> 831-750-0284 Cell

> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 6:40 PM, g.combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com 

> >wrote:

>

>> Tim and all interested. The auto trim was very easy to install. It  

>> does

>> work with the TCW safety trim and trims in 3 sec intervals. So far

>> it has be great and worth every penny as I stated before. It took  

>> about 3

>> hours to install. I have attached some pictures that hopefully

>> will help. Also all wiring was done right by the Elevator trim  

>> servo. I did

>> wire directly into the trim servo wires going back to the trim servo

>> in the aft end of tailcone.

>>

>> Geoff

>> RV-10 N829GW

>>

>>

>> ---

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

marcausman

Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 70

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: performance

We've had zero issues with anyone who has installed the Autotrim module and the VP system. They work well together and a link is posted earlier showing how they are wired together.



As with the TCW system or if you use mechanical relays, the TT autotrim system takes control away from our system to make its own adjustments. If the TT autotrim system runs away there is no way to stop it other than to pull power to the TT autotrim module.  If you want a failsafe switch then put one in series bw the trim motor and whatever controller is closest in the wiring. That switch can stop the motor from running but cannot allow you to run the trim motor back. 



The VP system DOES have runaway trim protection, variable speed trim, backup trim controls, trim position indicator, and trim fault checking on startup. And with rock-simple wiring.

_________________
Marc Ausman
http://www.verticalpower.com "Move up to a modern electrical system"
RV-7 IO-390 Flying

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