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Overheating

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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: Overheating

Got a replacement radiator for the std NSI brass unit and after flight

testing, temps are down 20deg C, 21 C OAT. Coolant temp 95C in the climb and

settles at 90 in cruise, oil temp 90 also. I have an oil to water heat

exchanger so helps to keep the variation between the two close. Taxi temp

85.

So happy that the air flow is not the problem as that would mean chopping my

nice smiley face cowl to pieces. John A.



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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: Overheating

That is great news John.  Seems like very good temps

to me.  If anything, your oil could be a bit warmer? 

Maybe right about 100 C to boil the moisture off?



What do our Soob experts say???



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Got a replacement radiator for the std NSI brass

 unit and after flight

 testing, temps are down 20deg C, 21 C OAT. Coolant

 temp 95C in the climb and

 settles at 90 in cruise, oil temp 90 also. I have an

 oil to water heat

 exchanger so helps to keep the variation between the

 two close. Taxi temp 85.

 So happy that the air flow is not the problem as

 that would mean chopping my

 nice smiley face cowl to pieces. John A.


	


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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: Overheating

Thanks for that Kurt, good pointg. I have cooling tubes through through the 

sump that have air blowing through so I'll plug one up and try. John A.



From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Overheating

Date:  Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:53:27 -0700 (PDT)


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



That is great news John.  Seems like very good temps

to me.  If anything, your oil could be a bit warmer?

Maybe right about 100 C to boil the moisture off?



What do our Soob experts say???



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Got a replacement radiator for the std NSI brass

unit and after flight

testing, temps are down 20deg C, 21 C OAT. Coolant

temp 95C in the climb and

settles at 90 in cruise, oil temp 90 also. I have an

oil to water heat

exchanger so helps to keep the variation between the

two close. Taxi temp 85.

So happy that the air flow is not the problem as

that would mean chopping my

nice smiley face cowl to pieces. John A.


	


__________________________________________________

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Overheating

Well, I almost got it right John.  I should have asked

the oil experts for their opinion here.



What is the best oil temp range?



My oil temps are 210-230F (99-110C) in warm weather

and down to 140F in cold.  I would like to keep them

at 190-210F myself, so I got the oil thermostat, but

need a little more cooling too.  My temp is taken at

the pan, so I expect the oil temp to go higher,

especially thru the turbo, and boil the water off,

then cool.



The turbo is over 400F after shutdown and I worry

about the oil that sits in it gumming up the works. 

Maybe an electric oil pump to keep it circulating

after shutdown would be useful.  But then we dont see

any of this in automotive use that I know of.



Just thinking.....



Kurt S.  S-5 NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks for that Kurt, good point. I have cooling

 tubes through the sump that have air blowing through

 so I'll plug one up and try. John A.


	


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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: Overheating

Interesting Kurt, my oil temp sender is in the sump also plus I'm running a 

turbo. I have a water to oil heat exchanger so hopefully it'll keep the oil 

temp up in winter..I always do a good 2 min rundown with the idea of cooling 

the turbo down but then as you say, in the auto arena never given a 

thought..John A.



From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Overheating

Date:  Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:01:15 -0700 (PDT)


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Well, I almost got it right John.  I should have asked

the oil experts for their opinion here.



What is the best oil temp range?



My oil temps are 210-230F (99-110C) in warm weather

and down to 140F in cold.  I would like to keep them

at 190-210F myself, so I got the oil thermostat, but

need a little more cooling too.  My temp is taken at

the pan, so I expect the oil temp to go higher,

especially thru the turbo, and boil the water off,

then cool.



The turbo is over 400F after shutdown and I worry

about the oil that sits in it gumming up the works.

Maybe an electric oil pump to keep it circulating

after shutdown would be useful.  But then we dont see

any of this in automotive use that I know of.



Just thinking.....



Kurt S.  S-5 NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks for that Kurt, good point. I have cooling

tubes through the sump that have air blowing through

so I'll plug one up and try. John A.


	


__________________________________________________

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_________________________________________________________________

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cliffh(at)outdrs.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: Overheating

When I used to fly a helicopter with a turbocharger, it was standard 

procedure to let the engine run just above idle for five minutes after 

landing, to cool the turbo. If you didn't the oil in the turbo would turn to 

coke and take out the bearings.



Floran H.

---

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: Overheating

Being a helicopter jocky my self...slight differance with a heli is that on 

landing and hovering the engine is working at near max capacity, but with an 

aeroplane the engine tends to be a low power before shutdown. But you do 

have a good point Floran. John A.

From: "Floran Higgins" <cliffh(at)outdrs.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Overheating

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:27:07 -0600






When I used to fly a helicopter with a turbocharger, it was standard

procedure to let the engine run just above idle for five minutes after

landing, to cool the turbo. If you didn't the oil in the turbo would turn to

coke and take out the bearings.



Floran H.

---

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: Overheating

I like Florans point too.  But we do cool down better

descending to land and on taxi back.  Even then the

turbo is hot on shutdown.  I let it run for a minute

even then.  Cooking the oil at 450F cant be good.



I wonder about turning the engine over with the

starter every minute for a bit, but then I would

probably just cook more oil when it stops.



Still thinking about that electric oil pump operating

until the turbo is below 250 would be good?  Or just

more weight and something to fail?



What I do right now is open my 2 cowl service doors

and face the plane into the wind to let it cool down

faster before putting it away.



kurt S.  Another old helo jock.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Being a helicopter jocky my self...slight differance

 with a heli is that on landing and hovering the

 engine is working at near max capacity, but with an 

 aeroplane the engine tends to be a low power before

 shutdown. But you do have a good point Floran.


	


 John A.

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 From: "Floran Higgins" <cliffh(at)outdrs.net>


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   When I used to fly a helicopter with a turbocharger,

 it was standard procedure to let the engine run just

 above idle for five minutes after

 landing, to cool the turbo. If you didn't the oil in

 the turbo would turn to coke and take out the

 bearings.

 

 Floran H.


	


__________________________________________________

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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: Overheating

Is your turbo water cooled Kurt? I added a louver vent in the upper cowl & 

it has sure helped getting rid of the residual heat after shut down. John A.

From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Overheating

Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT)

<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

I like Florans point too.  But we do cool down better

descending to land and on taxi back.  Even then the

turbo is hot on shutdown.  I let it run for a minute

even then.  Cooking the oil at 450F cant be good.

I wonder about turning the engine over with the

starter every minute for a bit, but then I would

probably just cook more oil when it stops.

Still thinking about that electric oil pump operating

until the turbo is below 250 would be good?  Or just

more weight and something to fail?

What I do right now is open my 2 cowl service doors

and face the plane into the wind to let it cool down

faster before putting it away.

kurt S.  Another old helo jock.

--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 > Being a helicopter jocky my self...slight differance

 > with a heli is that on landing and hovering the

 > engine is working at near max capacity, but with an

 > aeroplane the engine tends to be a low power before

 > shutdown. But you do have a good point Floran.

  John A.

 >

 >

 > From: "Floran Higgins" <cliffh(at)outdrs.net>

 > When I used to fly a helicopter with a turbocharger,

 > it was standard procedure to let the engine run just

 > above idle for five minutes after

 > landing, to cool the turbo. If you didn't the oil in

 > the turbo would turn to coke and take out the

 > bearings.

 >

 > Floran H.

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_________________________________________________________________

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Overheating

Yes John,



Water cooled turbo.  I have been thinking about

louvers above and just behind the turbo too for

cooling.  Close them off for winter carb antiice,

since the turbo heat keeps the carb air warm.  Open

for cooler intake air in the summer = more power?



Too many ideas to try and no time right now.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Is your turbo water cooled Kurt? I added a louver

 vent in the upper cowl & 

 it has sure helped getting rid of the residual heat

 after shut down. John A.


	


__________________________________________________

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http://mail.yahoo.com

wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: Overheating

Not sure if I posted my vents shots, but was not to hard. Now to shut

them on and off now that's a bigger deal for sure.



Rick 



--

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: Overheating

Well, no carb icing problems for me being EFI. But the louvers sure are 

efective at getting rid of the residual heat, plus they aid the intercooler 

too. John



From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Overheating

Date:  Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:06:52 -0700 (PDT)


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Yes John,



Water cooled turbo.  I have been thinking about

louvers above and just behind the turbo too for

cooling.  Close them off for winter carb antiice,

since the turbo heat keeps the carb air warm.  Open

for cooler intake air in the summer = more power?



Too many ideas to try and no time right now.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Is your turbo water cooled Kurt? I added a louver

vent in the upper cowl &

it has sure helped getting rid of the residual heat

after shut down. John A.


	


__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com





_________________________________________________________________

Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband (at) 

http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: Overheating

John,



Dont know how many times I wish I had an EFI Soob

with dual plug heads.  Wish Rick ran a Soob upgrade

business here in the U.S. since he knows how to turn

straw into gold.



Whenever I get the time Ill:



Put in Dual plug heads,

Install EFI

Install a larger capacity oil pump

Install SS valves

Install better pistons and parts from Rick

Improve my fuel system for better service and

reliability

Add cowl louvers

Finish my VG testing and installation

Add more drag reducing devices

on and on...



At least I dont need to build another Fox right now

to stay in the builders circle.  ha ha  



kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Well, no carb icing problems for me being EFI. But

 the louvers sure are 

 effective at getting rid of the residual heat, plus

 they aid the intercooler 

 too. John


	


__________________________________________________

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: Overheating

Rick,



I thought of having a sliding grate on the underside

of the louvers controlled by a thermostat using the

temp above the intake filter.  Still a dream, not a

plan yet.



Yes, I can make my plane more complex....  After all,

what can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong.....



Kurt S.



--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Not sure if I posted my vents shots, but was not to

 hard. Now to shut

 them on and off now that's a bigger deal for sure.

 

 Rick


	


__________________________________________________

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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: Overheating

Easy to make a manual shut off perhaps caps?

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Overheating

Date:  Sat, 29 Apr 2006 05:38:48 -0700 (PDT)

<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Rick,

I thought of having a sliding grate on the underside

of the louvers controlled by a thermostat using the

temp above the intake filter.  Still a dream, not a

plan yet.

Yes, I can make my plane more complex....  After all,

what can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong.....

Kurt S.

--- wingsdown <wingsdown(at)comcast.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Not sure if I posted my vents shots, but was not to

hard. Now to shut

them on and off now that's a bigger deal for sure.

Rick

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________

Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals 

http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=200731

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Overheating

Ha ha when does it end. My good lady jibes me about finishing my plane. She 

just smiles when I tell her, now that it's flying it's a new beginning...

From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Overheating

Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 05:17:38 -0700 (PDT)




<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



John,



Dont know how many times I wish I had an EFI Soob

with dual plug heads.  Wish Rick ran a Soob upgrade

business here in the U.S. since he knows how to turn

straw into gold.



Whenever I get the time Ill:



Put in Dual plug heads,

Install EFI

Install a larger capacity oil pump

Install SS valves

Install better pistons and parts from Rick

Improve my fuel system for better service and

reliability

Add cowl louvers

Finish my VG testing and installation

Add more drag reducing devices

on and on...



At least I dont need to build another Fox right now

to stay in the builders circle.  ha ha  



kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 > Well, no carb icing problems for me being EFI. But

 > the louvers sure are

 > effective at getting rid of the residual heat, plus

 > they aid the intercooler

 > too. John



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com





_________________________________________________________________

Read the latest Hollywood gossip  (at)  http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: Overheating

John,



Manual cockpit controlled louvers are something else

to disconnect before you can remove the cowl, but

simple and reliable otherwise.  A consideration.



I have 2 side openings on my lower cowl for cooling

that I can fix closed or open after cowl removal. 

Ground adjustable?



I find the best answer is the simple one that is

totally obvious after 100s of hours of planning and

final completion....



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Easy to make a manual shut off perhaps caps?


	


__________________________________________________

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janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: Overheating

I was thinking REAL simple Kurt....have an externally hand operated, after 

shutdown and cool down slide closed. I'm thinking more of summer/winter use 

and to keep water out when standing (if it has to stand out) Feeling 

frustrated, nice day but 20kt easterly and I need to fly...ha ha





From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Overheating

Date:  Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:23:56 -0700 (PDT)


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



John,



Manual cockpit controlled louvers are something else

to disconnect before you can remove the cowl, but

simple and reliable otherwise.  A consideration.



I have 2 side openings on my lower cowl for cooling

that I can fix closed or open after cowl removal.

Ground adjustable?



I find the best answer is the simple one that is

totally obvious after 100s of hours of planning and

final completion....



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Easy to make a manual shut off perhaps caps?


	


__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com





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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: Overheating

That would probably work John.



I could reach inside the cowl from the front intake

and move the slide when necessary.  A small wire

handle would do.  Leave it open all summer for better

power and cooler ops (except for rain).  Close it for

cooler weather, but maybe still open it after shutdown

on the cool, but not cold days.  Closed all winter. 

Good idea!



Now if you can come up with a simple wind beater, we

could all fly on those days.  



kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I was thinking REAL simple Kurt....have an

 externally hand operated, after 

 shutdown and cool down slide closed. I'm thinking

 more of summer/winter use 

 and to keep water out when standing (if it has to

 stand out) Feeling 

 frustrated, nice day but 20kt easterly and I need to

 fly...ha ha


	


__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 

http://mail.yahoo.com

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