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GPS antenna location

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

Has anyone mounted their GPS antenna(s) underneath the cabin cover,

say inside an overhead console? Is there any reason the cabin cover

fiberglass would not be transparent to GPS signals? Given that Vans

mostly implies the cover is structural and discourages drilling beyond

what the plans call for, I'd rather put antenna on underside than

drill holes for coax and mounting. Not to mention avoiding the drag

and appearance of extra protrusions. Figuring will have minimum of

430W, EFIS independent GPS, and possibly ADS-B GPS antennas.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

Not underneath a cabin cover - but inside the engine cowl...with fresh (non-metallic) paint on it.  Still works fine.



Mine's a Garmin 420W...

--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:07 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

I agree that under the cowl is better than under the cabin top only 

because of the thickness of the cabin top.  FG isn't really transparent 

to the GPS signal, and the thicker the FG, the more degradation of the 

GPS signal.  The heat under the cowl is also a consideration, but the 

heat under the cabin top will probably get as high in direct sunlight, 

depending on the color paint used.  So far I'm planning on putting my 

GPS antenna under the cabin top too, inside my fresh air plenum.  That 

is until I get feedback from those that had problems with it there.

Linn

Y'all have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow!!!!



On 11/24/2010 10:48 AM, Ralph E. Capen wrote:

[quote] 



 Not underneath a cabin cover - but inside the engine cowl...with fresh (non-metallic) paint on it.  Still works fine.



 Mine's a Garmin 420W...

 --

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

Yes, that is exactly what I have in mind. Just trying to get all the

planning for what will/won't go inside the lovely carbon fiber

overhead console before permanently glassing the console in place.

Really want to minimize external antennas. Current plane looks like

porcupine with 2 comms, loran Elt,VOR, stormscope, Adf and transp ants

sticking out everywhere.,

Remember, keep your base empty wt under control on T-day. Allegedly

easier than controlling wt of what is attached to plane.



On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



   So far I'm planning on putting my GPS antenna under the cabin
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   top too, inside my fresh air plenum.  That is until I get feedback from

 those that had problems with it there.

 Linn

 Y'all have a great Thanksgiving tomorrow!!!!

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

I grabbed a GPS and put it under the cabin cover, received a reception just 

fine, so I put my antenna inside/above a self made overhead console that 

will sit right over the area where the front seats are.

The antenna is easy enough to move if it does not work. I don't like the 

idea of the excessive heat from the engine area, may not be an issue for the 

antenna but I know of a couple of times my (car) gps did not work due to 

being overheated sitting in the trunk one summer, so that tells me it cant 

be a good thing having all the heat over any items that don't need to be in 

the engine area(aka designed for that location)

Pascal



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 7:32 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: GPS antenna location



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Has anyone mounted their GPS antenna(s) underneath the cabin cover,

 say inside an overhead console? Is there any reason the cabin cover

 fiberglass would not be transparent to GPS signals? Given that Vans

 mostly implies the cover is structural and discourages drilling beyond

 what the plans call for, I'd rather put antenna on underside than

 drill holes for coax and mounting. Not to mention avoiding the drag

 and appearance of extra protrusions. Figuring will have minimum of

 430W, EFIS independent GPS, and possibly ADS-B GPS antennas.

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

On 11/24/2010 11:22 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yes, that is exactly what I have in mind. Just trying to get all the

 planning for what will/won't go inside the lovely carbon fiber

 overhead console before permanently glassing the console in place.

I'm not convinced that glassing the overhead console in place is a good 
	


idea.  I realize that you have access panels in the CF OH consoles, but 

you never know what's going to occur down the road (airway???  ).  My 

OH console will not have an access cover so I plan on embedding nuts in 

the cabin top so I can put screws in to hold the OH console up.  I had 

also thought of using silicone to mount the OH console .... and haven't 

tossed the idea out just yet.  Anyone have comments????

Linn



 	  Quote: 	
		   Really want to minimize external antennas. Current plane looks like

 porcupine with 2 comms, loran Elt,VOR, stormscope, Adf and transp ants

 sticking out everywhere.,

 Remember, keep your base empty wt under control on T-day. Allegedly

 easier than controlling wt of what is attached to plane.

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

I decided to optimize the mounting of the 430W antenna according to the 

best avionics advice I could find.  The installation manual  being first 

and and avionics shop owner second (Bill Betts, SparkChasers, KJNX).  My 

thinking was 1) every source of advice has a bias 2) the performance of 

the 430W WAAS GPS being most important to me, 3) follow the avionics 

invested parties advice.  So it's mounted on top of the cabin, right in 

the middle, far away from any possible interference, holes thru the 

cabin top, stuck out in the airstream.



The are 3 or 4 other GPS antenna  involved.  Here I just tried to find 

good locations that should perform satisfactorily, provide easy 

installation/maintenance and be aesthetically pleasing.  So 2 are 

mounted along upper rim of the windshield - a location that's worked 

well on my Maule.  1 or 2 are going to be velcroed to the glare shield.  

No holes, nothing sticking out, nothing being visually unpleasant.



Not flying so can't say how this will all work out.



Bill "applying high performance Dupont industrial coatings" Watson

On 11/24/2010 10:32 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Has anyone mounted their GPS antenna(s) underneath the cabin cover,

 say inside an overhead console? Is there any reason the cabin cover

 fiberglass would not be transparent to GPS signals? Given that Vans

 mostly implies the cover is structural and discourages drilling beyond

 what the plans call for, I'd rather put antenna on underside than

 drill holes for coax and mounting. Not to mention avoiding the drag

 and appearance of extra protrusions. Figuring will have minimum of

 430W, EFIS independent GPS, and possibly ADS-B GPS antennas.

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: Re: GPS antenna location

Kelly,

I have been going through this as well.  I have an ugly double shark fin antenna that has to go on top of the cabin cover as far forward as possible.  My problem is the ground plane.  Garmin wants 18x18 ground plane and all I can do is 10x33 copper mesh that sandwiches on the inside.  With Geoff's overhead console it is really easy to reach inside through the access plates.  Also, if you want to look at a nice install that is hidden, look what Robin Marks did on his cabin top.  I would think structurally the carbon fiber console has to compensate for the cabin top being milled out.



http://www.painttheweb.com/painttheweb/rv-10/GPSAntenn.aspx

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Jim Combs

Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 140
Location: Lexington, Ky

Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: GPS antenna location

I see you all are determined to embed / mount the GPS antenna into the cabin.  



Here is another solution.



I have mine under the cowl on a mounted plate attached to the firewall and the top of the engine mount.  

 Flying now with 200 hours and no issues.  I have access to them, they are easily inspected and 

serviced if ever needed, and it a ton easier to do (no fiberglass or routing of cables up to the 

cabin top).



I have the 430W GPS antenna, an XM weather antenna, and a stand-alone GPS receiver (49$ driving co-pilot

 EFIS and AP).



Food for thought.



Jim Combs

N312F - Flying (again!)

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_________________
RV-10 -> N312F - Flying as of 12/2008

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:11 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

I added some pics in my building log here:

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=4053&log=117562&row=2



On 11/24/2010 2:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I decided to optimize the mounting of the 430W antenna according to 

 the best avionics advice I could find.  The installation manual  being 

 first and and avionics shop owner second (Bill Betts, SparkChasers, 

 KJNX).  My thinking was 1) every source of advice has a bias 2) the 

 performance of the 430W WAAS GPS being most important to me, 3) follow 

 the avionics invested parties advice.  So it's mounted on top of the 

 cabin, right in the middle, far away from any possible interference, 

 holes thru the cabin top, stuck out in the airstream.



 The are 3 or 4 other GPS antenna  involved.  Here I just tried to find 

 good locations that should perform satisfactorily, provide easy 

 installation/maintenance and be aesthetically pleasing.  So 2 are 

 mounted along upper rim of the windshield - a location that's worked 

 well on my Maule.  1 or 2 are going to be velcroed to the glare 

 shield.  No holes, nothing sticking out, nothing being visually 

 unpleasant.

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: GPS antenna location

Bill, thanks for the pics.  But they posed the question why you mounted 

the small GPS antennas under the upper windscreen rather than down on 

the glareshield???  Inquiring minds want to know.

Linn



On 11/26/2010 2:08 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I added some pics in my building log here:

 http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=4053&log=117562&row=2 

 On 11/24/2010 2:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

> 

>

> I decided to optimize the mounting of the 430W antenna according to 

> the best avionics advice I could find.  The installation manual  

> being first and and avionics shop owner second (Bill Betts, 

> SparkChasers, KJNX).  My thinking was 1) every source of advice has a 

> bias 2) the performance of the 430W WAAS GPS being most important to 

> me, 3) follow the avionics invested parties advice.  So it's mounted 

> on top of the cabin, right in the middle, far away from any possible 

> interference, holes thru the cabin top, stuck out in the airstream.

>

> The are 3 or 4 other GPS antenna  involved.  Here I just tried to 

> find good locations that should perform satisfactorily, provide easy 

> installation/maintenance and be aesthetically pleasing.  So 2 are 

> mounted along upper rim of the windshield - a location that's worked 

> well on my Maule.  1 or 2 are going to be velcroed to the glare 

> shield.  No holes, nothing sticking out, nothing being visually 

> unpleasant.

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: GPS antenna location

No reason than just to get them up and out of the way.  I didn't think 

they would interfere with visibility (?).



As I recall, the question I answered with the one antenna on the glare 

shield is "why did they use such a plug so big I couldn't string it thru 

the center strut"?

On 11/26/2010 2:16 PM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bill, thanks for the pics.  But they posed the question why you 

 mounted the small GPS antennas under the upper windscreen rather than 

 down on the glareshield???  Inquiring minds want to know.

 Linn



 On 11/26/2010 2:08 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

> 

>

> I added some pics in my building log here:

> http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=MauleDriver&project=224&category=4053&log=117562&row=2 

> On 11/24/2010 2:35 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

>> 

>>

>> I decided to optimize the mounting of the 430W antenna according to 

>> the best avionics advice I could find.  The installation manual  

>> being first and and avionics shop owner second (Bill Betts, 

>> SparkChasers, KJNX).  My thinking was 1) every source of advice has 

>> a bias 2) the performance of the 430W WAAS GPS being most important 

>> to me, 3) follow the avionics invested parties advice.  So it's 

>> mounted on top of the cabin, right in the middle, far away from any 

>> possible interference, holes thru the cabin top, stuck out in the 

>> airstream.

>>

>> The are 3 or 4 other GPS antenna  involved.  Here I just tried to 

>> find good locations that should perform satisfactorily, provide easy 

>> installation/maintenance and be aesthetically pleasing.  So 2 are 

>> mounted along upper rim of the windshield - a location that's worked 

>> well on my Maule.  1 or 2 are going to be velcroed to the glare 

>> shield.  No holes, nothing sticking out, nothing being visually 

>> unpleasant.

>>

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: GPS antenna location

I am several months away from starting work on the fiberglass canopy but what was the reason for the tinted lexan cover over the GPS antenna's?  Every antenna in the Cozy MKIV we built is buried under the glass and works flawlessly.   The GNS 430 antenna was actually mounted on a shelf in the nose of the plane. and is receiving through 4 layers of glass, 3/4"foam, and 3 more layers of glass.



David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:19 pm Post subject: GPS antenna location

antennas do fail; you might want to change it.  reception is not the problem, maintenance is.

 [quote]   ---

davidsoutpost(at)comcast.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: GPS antenna location

That's true,, however the antenna's appear to be easily accessible from inside the cabin via the overhead console and weakening the integrity of the canopy could have been avoided.  



David Clifford



RV-10 Builder

65% Done-95% To Go

N849RV (reserved)



---

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