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lubricating the air system search

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Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

I've tried several searches looking for discussion regarding pros and cons of adding a lubricant to the air system and get hundreds of topics, but none related to what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to word the search appreciated

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:11 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Bill,The CJ Tech Spec manual goes into detail about how much oil to add and where it should be added.  I am not close to my books now or would look it up for you.

A word of caution.  Do not squirt oil into the filter on the compressor, you are just flushing junk into the compressor and you will end up gumming up the poppet valve.

 



Also, do not over do the amount of oil you add to the system.  Keeping the system DRY is of equal or greater importance than keeping it oiled.  Check your manuals and add the recommended amount of oil or oil and glycerin mix.  

 



Many of the actuators which I have been getting in to overhaul or as exchanges for new units have little or no grease left in them because it has all been washed out by the addition of light weight oils to the pneumatic system.  Without grease to lubricate the locking balls and the 0 rings the actuator will self destruct in a very short time.

 



Best,

Doug



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)gmail.com (billdykes52(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52(at)gmail.com (billdykes52(at)gmail.com)>

  

 I've tried several searches looking for discussion regarding pros and cons of adding a lubricant to the air system and get hundreds of topics, but none related to what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to word the search appreciated

  

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=322843#322843

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 ===========

 rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

rick(at)rvairshows.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:42 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">   It has been suggested to clean the air bottle and put some acf50 or similar rust preventative in. What do you think of that?Rick VOLKER

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom:  doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> 

Sender:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com 

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:08:29 -0800

To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

ReplyTo:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Yak-List: lubricating the air system search

Bill,The CJ Tech Spec manual goes into detail about how much oil to ad= d and where it should be added. =A0I am not close to my books now or would = look it up for you.

A word of caution. =A0Do not s= quirt oil into the filter on the compressor, you are just flushing junk int= o the compressor and you will end up gumming up the poppet valve.

Also, do not over do the amount of oil you add to the s= ystem. =A0Keeping the system DRY is of equal or greater importance than kee= ping it oiled. =A0Check your manuals and add the=A0recommended=A0amount of = oil or oil and=A0glycerin=A0mix. =A0

Many of the actuators which I have been=A0getting=A0in = to overhaul or as exchanges for new units have little or no grease left in = them because it has all been washed out by the addition of light weight oil= s to the pneumatic system. =A0Without grease to lubricate the locking balls=  and the 0 rings the actuator will self=A0destruct in a very short time. 

Best,

Doug

= On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)gmail= .com (billdykes52(at)gmail.com)>

 I've tried several searches looking for discussion regarding pros and c= ons of adding a lubricant to the air system and get hundreds of topics, but=  none related to what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to word t= he search appreciated

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D322843#322843<= /a>

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 =3D"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target=3D"_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et=3D"_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 rget=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 http://forums.matronics.com

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 [b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

What I think of that (since you asked) is that you need to be very very careful of what you add to Russian pneumatic systems.  



My first exposure to the YAK List about a decade or so again was when I read about putting all manner of things into the pneumatic system to prevent rust in actuators.  I did exactly as was suggested.  The next thing that happened is that the Chevron Seals in my YAK-50 landing gear actuators actually dissolved.  By the grace of God I managed to get the gear down with the emergency system.  I then wrote my first long article on how to go about pulling the landing gear actuators and replacing the seals in a YAK-50.  



I did not follow any manuals like Doug Sapp is recommending.  Instead I followed the advice given on the Yak List.  In this particular case, that advice turned out to be less than good.    Be careful of what you add to Russian pneumatic systems.  WHAT you add and HOW MUCH you add.  



What is "good stuff" for preventing rust, can sometimes be BAD JU-JU for rubber seals.  



Mark Bitterlich





--

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Good Point Mark,  However one advantage of the Yak list is that is can be good for business.....LOL



Kregg



Victory Aero LLC

2502 John Montgomery Dr.

San Jose, CA 95148

408-836-5122

www.balancemyprop.com



--

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Rick,Coating/sloshing (then draining it well) a new bottle with ACF50 should not be a problem.  Dumping a bunch in and leaving it there to migrate through the air system might cause problems as it just might have a bad effect on the rubber parts and seals down stream.

 



Doug



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 10:22 AM,  <rick(at)rvairshows.com (rick(at)rvairshows.com)> wrote:

[quote]    It has been suggested to clean the air bottle and put some acf50 or similar rust preventative in. What do you think of that?

Rick VOLKER

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryFrom:  doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> 

Sender:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) 

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:08:29 -0800

To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

ReplyTo:  yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search

Bill,The CJ Tech Spec manual goes into detail about how much oil to ad= d and where it should be added. =A0I am not close to my books now or would = look it up for you.

A word of caution. =A0Do not s= quirt oil into the filter on the compressor, you are just flushing junk int= o the compressor and you will end up gumming up the poppet valve.

 



Also, do not over do the amount of oil you add to the s= ystem. =A0Keeping the system DRY is of equal or greater importance than kee= ping it oiled. =A0Check your manuals and add the=A0recommended=A0amount of = oil or oil and=A0glycerin=A0mix. =A0

 



Many of the actuators which I have been=A0getting=A0in = to overhaul or as exchanges for new units have little or no grease left in = them because it has all been washed out by the addition of light weight oil= s to the pneumatic system. =A0Without grease to lubricate the locking balls=  and the 0 rings the actuator will self=A0destruct in a very short time. 



Best,

Doug



= On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:10 AM, Bill1200 <billdykes52(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bi= ll1200" <billdykes52(at)gmail= .com>

  

 I've tried several searches looking for discussion regarding pros and c= ons of adding a lubricant to the air system and get hundreds of topics, but=  none related to what I'm looking for. Any suggestions on how to word t= he search appreciated

  

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D322843#322843<= /a>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 =3D"_blank">www.aeroelectric.com

 ooks.com" target=3D"_blank">www.buildersbooks.com

 et=3D"_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com

 =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 le, List Admin.

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 rget=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 http://forums.matronics.com

 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 

 

 

 



3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

	


 [b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:24 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

TRUE!  Never thought of it that way!  

--

Cliff.Coy

Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:46 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.



The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).

 

There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.

 

The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.



If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.

 

Just my $0.02



Cliff



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

  

 

TRUE! Â Never thought of it that way!

 

 

 --

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Cliff is spot on,Â glycerin is a humectant (attracts water) and so isÂ alcohol. Â I have posted about this in the past. Â I have usedÂ glycerin mixed 30% with alcohol (70%) in the past and it seems to work well.Â Â 



 Doug



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff.coy(at)gmail.com (cliff.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.



The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).

  

There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.

  

The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.



If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.

  

Just my $0.02



Cliff



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

   

 

TRUE! Â Never thought of it that way!

 

 

 --

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Here in the humid Western part of Europe, we do as instructed by our Russian inspectors: inject a 50/50 volume mixture of pure glycerine and 90% ethanol with a needle right into the actuators. Only a few cc. Not too much!

And of course Cliff is right about the overhaul every 500 hours or 5 years.

 

Jan

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Coy

Sent: vrijdag 10 december 2010 8:44

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search



 

OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.



The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).



There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.



The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.



If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.



Just my $0.02



Cliff

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



TRUE!  Never thought of it that way!

--

Bill1200

Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 111
Location: medford oregon

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: lubricating the air system search

Thanks to all, once again!

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:37 pm Post subject: lubricating the air system search

I have used yourÂ  30/70% formula in the air bottles for 4 years now. Seems to work well. Approaching time now to pull the actuators and grease them. What weight grease are yaâ€™ll using on the seals?

Doc

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp

Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:30 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search

 

Cliff is spot on, glycerin is a humectant (attracts water) and so is alcohol.  I have posted about this in the past.  I have used glycerin mixed 30% with alcohol (70%) in the past and it seems to work well.  

 



Doug

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff.coy(at)gmail.com (cliff.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.



The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).



There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.



The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.



If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.



Just my $0.02



Cliff

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



TRUE!  Never thought of it that way!

--

Cliff.Coy

Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: lubricating the air system search

I use Royco #43 Pneumatic system grease.

I believe MolyKote 55M is compitabile as well.



Cheers,

Cliff



 On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 23:13, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:

[quote] 

I have used yourÂ  30/70% formula in the air bottles for 4 years now. Seems to work well. Approaching time now to pull the actuators and grease them. What weight grease are yaâ€™ll using on the seals? 

Doc

Â  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of doug sapp

 Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:30 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search

 

Â 

Cliff is spot on,Â glycerin is a humectant (attracts water) and so isÂ alcohol. Â I have posted about this in the past. Â I have usedÂ glycerin mixed 30% with alcohol (70%) in the past and it seems to work well.Â Â  

Â 



Doug



On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff.coy(at)gmail.com (cliff.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 

OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.

 

The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).



There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



 This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.



The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.

 

If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.



Just my $0.02



Cliff

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote: 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> 



TRUE! Â Never thought of it that way!

--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:08 am Post subject: lubricating the air system search

Thanks Cliff.

Doc

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Coy

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 9:51 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search



 

I use Royco #43 Pneumatic system grease.

I believe MolyKote 55M is compitabile as well.



Cheers,

Cliff

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 23:13, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:

I have used your  30/70% formula in the air bottles for 4 years now. Seems to work well. Approaching time now to pull the actuators and grease them. What weight grease are yaâ€™ll using on the seals?

Doc

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of doug sapp

Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:30 PM



To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: lubricating the air system search



 

Cliff is spot on, glycerin is a humectant (attracts water) and so is alcohol.  I have posted about this in the past.  I have used glycerin mixed 30% with alcohol (70%) in the past and it seems to work well.  

 



Doug

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff.coy(at)gmail.com (cliff.coy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

OK....I'll throw my hat into this ring.



The Yakovlev pneumatic system is a *greased* system, not an oiled one.



The assemblies and valves are to be dis-assembled and re-greased every 500hrs or 5 years (whichever occurs first).



There has been many a witches brew suggested to inject into the system- ie. air tool oil.



This has the effect of washing the grease out of the system. 



Washing the grease out of the flap and gear selectors puts the two rotating plates in direct contact causing scoring and ..... leakage.



The 90% alcohol / Glycerin mix injected into the air bottles is to glom onto the engine oil and water that makes it past the filter to reduce the incidence of corrosion.



If you're operating in high humidity areas, then I'd change the alcohol/ glycerin mix and regrease the system more often.



Just my $0.02



Cliff

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 14:16, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



TRUE!  Never thought of it that way!

--

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