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stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi. New member here.



Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, in annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured and inspected.



Couple of questions:



1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port Huron/Detroit area for the 520?



2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?



3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an old girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.



Thanks,

A.

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

stratobee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953.

    

Hello "A".  Congrats on the purchase.
	


If you'd like to contact me off list, I can probably provide some 

assistance.  I know pretty much every nut and bolt in a 520 on a first 

name basis.

Sadly, I recently sent a vast quantity of 520 parts to the dump as I 

could not find anyone who wanted them.  I think I still have a complete 

set of all documentation (all current originals purchased from tcac).  

Will need to dig through the book case and make sure though.



Chris

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Thanks to all that have emailed offering help.



I should add that I don't yet have my MEP rating, as I'm only half way though that training. It wasn't planned this way, but then this aircraft came along at the right price and I couldn't resist. But hence why I'd like ideally to get a CFI to help me fly it back, so I can log that time and get better situated for the insurance (as I suspect they'll ask for at least 25 hrs in type).

scottmain

Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Location: fort lauderdale, florida

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Have helpful info for you. contact Scott at Scottmain2003aol.com

  

  In a message dated 12/30/2010 8:02:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  adam(at)adamfrisch.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee"    <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>



Hi. New member here.



Looks like I've    just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, in annual and have    her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown back to Los Angeles    where I live as soon as I can get her insured and inspected.



Couple of    questions:



1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection    on the Port Huron/Detroit area for the 520?



2. If I and my more    experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight back, is there anyone in    that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or ideally be a CFI) that    could help me fly her back to LA VFR?



3. Who would be the best    maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an old girl like this? I prefer a    repair-and-fix approach rather than a replace-by-new approach to maintenance,    if there's a choice.



Thanks,

A.





Read this topic    online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062===============================================

_nbsp;             (And Get Some AWESOME FREE     to find   Gifts       ilder's  ELP  b  k you for  p;                        -Matt Dralle,    List  ========================   Use the  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ==================================================



	


  [quote][b]

tylorhall(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:10 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

You need to talk to Jim Metzger, President of TCFG.He could help you move the aircraft and you would learn a lot about Twin Commander by just spending a lot of time flying back to CA.

Moe Mills had his 680FP taken care of for many years by some folks at Hawthorne Airport.

Stop in Albuquerque on your way through.  AEG is a good stop for fuel or RON.  



 Tylor Hall

tylorhall(at)mac.com (tylorhall(at)mac.com)

First Fueling Systems, Inc.

100 Iron Ave. SE

Albuquerque, NM 87102

505-400-8373 Cell

505-247-3001

505-247-3005 FAX

www.firstfueling.com



 

 

On Dec 31, 2010, at 3:19 AM, stratobee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>



Thanks to all that have emailed offering help.



I should add that I don't yet have my MEP rating, as I'm only half way though that training. It wasn't planned this way, but then this aircraft came along at the right price and I couldn't resist. But hence why I'd like ideally to get a CFI to help me fly it back, so I can log that time and get better situated for the insurance (as I suspect they'll ask for at least 25 hrs in type).





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325083#325083



      -- Please Support Your Lists This           (And Get     * HomebuiltHELP                              -Matt Dralle, List          - The   -->             &n========================

nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:35 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Let me be the first to congratulate you, Adam, and welcome you to the group,

too. 

I am not sure where in Socal you would be based, but there are at least two

Commanders at Camarillo, one a turboprop.  

If there's a facility in Socal, someone on the list will know about it or at

least steer you in the right direction. 



Nico

--

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:50 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Adam,



Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.



I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?



Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.



Best Regards,

Barry Collman

Aero Commander historian.

--

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Aircraft will be based at Santa Monica airport. A gentleman emailed and said he had his 500B serviced at John Wayne and I know there at least used to be a Commander specialist at Compton Airport. I don't mind if it's a bit away, as long as they have the right approach or come recommended.



Where can I get a hold of Jim Metzger?

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Barry.



Yes, you're absolutely correct. S/N 62, N527P based in Port Huron. The current owner has been kind enough to scan in some of the performance figures from the POH for me, but any additional info would be most useful.



Adam

nick(at)container.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Dear Adam,

Welcome aboard .Where will you be based in Cal ? I am at El Monte ( KEMT). 

A California based CFII commander pilot is Hank Smull 818 317 8130 or cell

818 718 8040.Hank was a Commander test pilot and knows them well.good luck

and fly safe..Nick N674NM



--

yourtcfg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

HELLO ADAM....Jim Metzger here.  Congratulations on your Commander!!  If you have not consummated the deal, I strongly suggest contacting Morris Kernick, Commander Services, Stockton CA 321 403-8813 for a pre buy.  No one knows more about Commanders than Morris and particularly the older examples.  There are a few things to be concerned about including motor mounts, brakes, fuel cells and propellers  It will be the best "Commander Dollars" you will ever spend.  I also strongly suggest you finish your ME training in a rented airplane. The geared engines on your 520 are not intended to be subjected to the abuse ME training will inflict on them.  Once you have complete your rating, it will be a relatively simple matter to check out in the airplane.  Operating the geared engines takes a little getting use to, but they are great power plants!!  I can help move the airplane to its new home, and teach you a lot about the systems and engine operation and hoe to fly your Commander, but I am not an instructor, so you would not be able to log the time.  Feel free to call me at 360-903-6901.  HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!  jb 

 

   

 

 

   --

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Adam,



OK - thanks for confirming that.

I'll get the history of it extracted from my database and send it to you as

an Excel .xls file shortly.



Best Regards,

Barry



--

stratobee

Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Thanks Jim.



Yes, MEP rating will be done on a Duchess. The geared engines are not ideal for this kind of exercise, I've heard.



I haven't consummated the deal yet and I would very much like to do a pre-buy. However, since the aircraft is out of the way in Michigan, it becomes a money thing. I have to ferry it back, paying for the CFI fees, their travel and expenses as well as getting a yearly policy (something I thought I could wait with and just get a one off ferry insurance). I don't think I can also afford to fly out  an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses etc or I'm looking at $10.000 on top of the sale price in total. At some point it becomes cost prohibitive. If I could find someone local that has some AC experience, that would be ideal.

moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:20 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi Adam,



Welcome to the wonderful world of Commanders.  Although I live in 

Farmington, NM now, I had N680RR, 680Fp tied down at Hawthorne, CA. (HHR) 

for over 10 years.  My maintenance work has always been done by Chris Miller 

of Security Aviation with his right hand man Pat Carrie Jr..  I still fly 

back to have them do my annual and other major work.  Morris is your number 

one source of information and does very good work, it's just that he is up 

in Stockton, whereas Chris can drive over to SMO in case of emergency and is 

only a 10 minute flight from SMO.



If the weather is decent, and a few loose ends can be tied up here in FMN 

next week I will fly back to HHR, and will be in town for about a week.  If 

you want, call me (cell# 310.350.4594)  and we can do lunch and I will 

introduce you to Chris.



Although I had over a thousand hours in a Cessna Skymaster, (337C) the 

insurance company still required 50 hours of dual in the pressurized 

Commander with an 'approved flight instructor' (since the 520 is not 

pressurized your flight training requirement will probably not be as 

stringent). This training was with Hank Smull.....the guy is damn sharp!  We 

probably flew about 10 or 15 hours single engine out over the Channel 

Islands up by Oxnard, so when the right engine died late one night on 

takeoff at about 500 ft. AGL, I just did what Hank had shown me to do and it 

was pretty much a non event. Because of the geared engines it is absolutely 

imperative that you get training from an instructor who KNOWS geared 

engines.  Be sure that he really knows geared engines, and just doesn't 

think that he knows them.



Again congratulations!



"Moe" Mills

N680RR

680Fp



--------------------------------------------------

From: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>

Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:55 PM

To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi. New member here.



 Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, 

 in annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be 

 flown back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured 

 and inspected.



 Couple of questions:



 1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port 

 Huron/Detroit area for the 520?



 2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight 

 back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours 

 (and/or ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?



 3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an 

 old girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a 

 replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.



 Thanks,

 A.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062

John Vormbaum

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 273
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hello Adam,



I am another who would recommend Morris Kernick/Commander Services, although

I should preface this by admitting that he is one of my closest friends now,

after a decade of Commanderism. His price is very reasonable, his toolkit

essentially one bag, and the money he will save you in the long run far

outweighs any expense for the prebuy. 



If not for Morris, I would probably be another $100k+ into a Commander,

instead of enjoying my 500B the way I am.



Good luck,



/John



PS: And it won't cost you $10k. I think you would be pleased at Morris'

rates.



--

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Good Afternoon Barry,

  

 Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to find out what  happened to serial number 24?

  

 That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory because  I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was flying it.

  

 Happy Skies,

  

 Old Bob

  

  In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:50:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,  barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"    <barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk>



Hi Adam,



Welcome, both    to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.



I'm guessing that you bought    s/n 62, N527P?



Let me know and I'll get the history of it to    you.



Best Regards,

Barry Collman

Aero Commander    historian.

	


  [quote][b]

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

stratobee wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I don't think I can also afford to fly out  an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses etc or I'm looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price.

    

Adam,
	


I'm going to be brutally honest here (and I have no doubt you'll get 

disagreement with what I'm about to say from others), but I say this 

with your best interests in mind and with the background to know what 

I'm talking about.



If you can't afford to pull $10k out of you pocket and set it on fire 

without causing financial hardship after buying this airplane, you 

should not buy it.  A 520 is an unsupported antique complex airplane.  

You can and should assume you'll need to throw more than $10k at it in 

the first year of ownership.  Over time, you may be able to become 

knowledgeable enough to do quite a bit of work yourself and decrease 

your maintenance costs substantially, but as long as you're going to pay 

to have the airplane (well) maintained, it's going to cost real money.



That said, the 520 is a fantastic little airplane.  It's the lightest of 

the breed and has the best feel.  If you know what you're getting in to 

and can support the needs of such a classic, you'll probably really 

enjoy it.  It's always great to see a Commander end up with an owner who 

cares for it properly and keeps it in good condition.



cheers,

Chris

cschuerm(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory 

 because I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was 

 flying it.

What chapter of the book will this story be in OB?  
	


I, for one, would love to hear it!

Chris

white_rhino_ps(at)yahoo.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Adam,



 	  Quote: 	
		  From personal experience, I suggest an independent pre-buy is the best money you will spend. The local Commander pro I hired for my pre-buy for 747H turned out to not only be a friend of the seller, but had worked on the plane as well. He had a vested  interest, but it wasn't mine!  He also performed an extensive annual. So good in fact that the left engine made it  3 hours before it failed. The right was minutes behind it!


	


In simple terms, pay the money up front or pay a lot more later!  A guy like Morris can give you a detailed plan to sort the bird out, and the priority of projects!



Good luck!



Craig



 	  Quote: 	
		  From my iPhone 4!


	


On Dec 31, 2010, at 10:22 AM, "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Hello Adam,

 

 I am another who would recommend Morris Kernick/Commander Services, although

 I should preface this by admitting that he is one of my closest friends now,

 after a decade of Commanderism. His price is very reasonable, his toolkit

 essentially one bag, and the money he will save you in the long run far

 outweighs any expense for the prebuy. 

 

 If not for Morris, I would probably be another $100k+ into a Commander,

 instead of enjoying my 500B the way I am.

 

 Good luck,

 

 /John

 

 PS: And it won't cost you $10k. I think you would be pleased at Morris'

 rates.

 

 --

barry.collman(at)air-brit
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

Hi “Old Bob”,

 

It will be all of 5 minutes ‘work’, so give me a few minutes to answer a few more emails and I’ll get an Excel .xls file to you.

Perhaps you could put together a Word .doc file on the “Dark and Stormy Night” experience for me?

 

Best Regards,

Barry

 

From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Sent: 31 December 2010 18:27

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.

 

Good Afternoon Barry,



 



Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to find out what happened to serial number 24?



 



That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory because I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was flying it.



 



Happy Skies,



 



Old Bob



 



In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:50:57 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk) writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk (barry.collman(at)air-britain.co.uk)>



Hi Adam,



Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.



I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?



Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.



Best Regards,

Barry Collman

Aero Commander historian.



   	
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