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btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: Paint

Lynn,



     I am using PPG one coat urethane.  I just painted

one wing, and will start on the other wing when I

return from All Red Star on Sunday.  I am not a very

good painter, but results can be deceiving with this

product.  It goes on like silk, and is almost as tough

as powder coat.  I'll never shoot acrylic enamel

again.  As soon as I get the other wing painted, I

will update my website with fresh pics.  I am doing it

very differently from most guys and painting as I

build.  For me, it is much easier, and breaks up the

painting task.  I painted the underside of the center

wing and aft fuselage before joining them together

(pic on website), and painted the tail, side fuse, top

fuse, cowling, and wings all separately.  It could be

prettier, but then it could be a whole lot more

expensive too.  I just don't let anyone within 5 feet

of the plane so they can't see the paint defects! 

Nothing wet sanding and buffing can't fix, but I'll

save that for after it is flying...



     I'll get anyone the part numbers of the paint if

you are having problems finding it, but PPG one coat

urethane should suffice.  It is quite expensive, but

worth it.  I think I am down $800 for paint, but I

can't remember, and really don't want to know.



R/



Brandon



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 

http://mail.yahoo.com

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: Paint

What are you using for breathing protection Brandon?



I am assembling parts to make a closed breathing air sysytem as I

understand this is mandatory for urethane paints due to the cyanide.



Frank



Do not archive 



--

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Paint

Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting

close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good

investment vs the screw up potential.



Frank 



I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,

so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is

finished.

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Paint

Frank,



I did the commercial metal painting thing for a while after I stopped 

doing electrical engineering.  Let me offer a little wisdom on the 

effort of learning to paint metal.



Painting is relatively easy to do poorly.  It isn't really hard to 

get reasonably good at it if you devote yourself to the 

effort.  Excellent work takes years to learn.  The hard part of spray 

painting is not the spraying - it is the preparation of the surface 

to paint.  This is a lot of very hard work making the surface smooth, 

clean, and in the proper condition to grab onto the paint.



The really important thing for you to consider is the incredible 

danger involved in painting.  The paint is deadly - particularly the 

solvents used to keep it liquid until applied to your work 

piece.  You need to take serious precautions in the handling and 

protect your skin and lungs from the toxic chemicals.  These problems 

are well documented so it is not rocket science to learn proper 

safety precautions.  If you ignore any of them it may well kill 

you.  Even worse it could turn you into a drooling idiot who lives a 

worthless life for many years.



There are other dangers too - risk of explosion and fire and other 

similar things.



I am not trying to talk you out of doing your own painting.  I think 

it can be done and you can save a lot of money doing it 

yourself.  You can also get very acceptable results.  My point is you 

need to devote serious attention to the safety issues and make sure 

you are covering all of them.



Good luck,



Paul

XL wings





 	  Quote: 	
		  Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting

close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good

investment vs the screw up potential.

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: Paint

Thanks Paul,



I agree with you in that the prep work is where the labour hours are...I

am currently finishing all the fiberglass parts on the RV. I have done

this numerous times (on steel) so that part is not difficult for me,

just time intensive.



The safety issue I think I have coverd.



The big question for me is...I know a guy who is an excellent painter

and I'm wondering if on a hideously expensive airplane like the RV is

this the place I should be learning or should I simply spend a grand or

so having my friend shoot the paint. He gave me some pointers on the

parts I had to paint before fitting the bubble canopy etc and they came

out OK...There is definatly some do's and don't when using a spray gun

vs a rattle can.



I have a '97 white Dodge neon and the paint is peeling off that...That

would be a far cheaper place to screw a paint job up on..., but ti

would also be a great skill to have...



Frank



Do not archive

Painting is relatively easy to do poorly.  It isn't really hard to get

reasonably good at it if you devote yourself to the effort.  Excellent

work takes years to learn.  The hard part of spray painting is not the

spraying - it is the preparation of the surface to paint.  This is a lot

of very hard work making the surface smooth, clean, and in the proper

condition to grab onto the paint.

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Paint

Frank,

Yes, I'm painting the plane with Aircraft Finishing Systems product. 

They have a good instruction manual for applying

the single coat primer/sealer and 2-part topcoats. The paint is a water 

thinned polyurethane and catalyst mix that is safe to

spray with an organic charcoal filter like the 6001 3M product.  No 

odor, HPLV gun per Harbor Freight and water cleanup.

It meets the EPA requirements and with water in lieu of a VOC thinner, 

the isocyanate component doesn't go after you because

it neutralizes the dangerous side of polyurethane.  I've painted before, 

but this is a first in water and polyurethane paints.

My cost is going to be about $1500 including the paint booth versus 

$3500 to $5000 for hiring it done.



Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com



Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting

close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good

investment vs the screw up potential.



Frank 



I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,

so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is

finished.

webmaster(at)upac.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Paint

Frank, there is a very good article on painting aircraft here:



http://www.ch601.org/resources/prep/surface_prep.htm



I studied this and researched a lot on the internet. Prep work is  

essential as is the proper equipment. If you can rent or borrow an  

HVLP turbine system is will make things a lot easier. Over-spray is  

greatly reduced. Protect yourself with a good respirator and a forced  

breathing system and if you can, paint it in a proper paint booth.

I did mine in my garage with filters and moistened the floor to keep  

the dust down. Paint turned out pretty good. Not a super expensive  

pro job but I get compliments so I'm satisfied. You can do it if  

you're prepared to make the effort. Just take your time.



Oh, the paint I used was the Endura EX-2C system. Fairly affordable  

and easy to work with. It's polyurethane. www.endura.ca



Lot of pictures of the painting process and final result at http:// 

pagefamily.homeunix.org/gallery/



Trev Page

C-IDUS 601HD R912

On May 3, 2006, at 1:29 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>



 Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm  

 getting

 close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good

 investment vs the screw up potential.



 Frank



 I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,

 so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is

 finished.

archermj(at)swbell.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 6:45 pm Post subject: Paint

I am also planning on using AFS on the exterior.  I did some trial painting 

of the interior.  It was tricky at first.  The support from the AFS is 

great.  I finally got the hang of it and I was really happy with the 

results.  The trick it to get it thinned properly and getting the "mist" 

proper.  After the first coat or so gradually increase the volume so it 

flows.  I also tried to do it at about 55 degrees and it worked but it 

turned to much better when it warmed up.  It is nice to work with, easy to 

clean up and very safe.  I was glad I tried it before I tackle the exterior.



Cheers

Matt

www.zodiacxl.com

---

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Paint

I also used the AFS paints, mainly for the safety issues, it's not flammable, and it's easy to clean up.

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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Paint

Frank,

If you're still contemplating doing your paint job, I have to recommend 

you contact Stewart's Hangar 21.

AFS was purchased by Stewart's Hangar 21 and they're making changes to 

the website that has

all the information, but they still can be reached at 1-509-679-3021.  

Ask for the AFS color chart

pricing and application guide as that's the most easily understood item 

that was offered by AFS.

Nice people.

Also there are some good articles worth reading on the web about RVs 

being painted with the AFS.

I had to print a few and keep referring to them for detail questions etc.



http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/reference/Primer%20Wars.htm

http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/afs-paint.htm



Have a good one,



Larry McFarland



Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Are you thinking of painting the airplane yourself larry?....I'm getting

close on the RV and am debating whether the learning process is a good

investment vs the screw up potential.



Frank 



I'm in the process of disassembling the plane and bringing parts home,

so insulation, and the like will be added after the paint process is

finished.

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Paint

Larry-

    What did you wind up doing re: paint booth (Or aren't you to that stage 

yet)? Being familiar with your work, I picture a filtered, temperature and 

humidity controlled environment that doubles as a "Safe Room" in hayfever 

season.

     I think you know me well enough to accept that as a compliment rather 

than criticism!!

                                                                    Bill

---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: Paint

Hello Larry,



Yes I am still deabating that as I spend hours and hours sanding

fiberglass...



The only question I have with the AFS (that's the water based stuff

correct?) is the durability and cost. I think I have the componentry to

make a fresh air breathing system (or I can buy a Hobby air for $400),

so the cost delta is one issue.



The durability is particularly relevant on the RV with a tip up

canopy...The roll bar I painted with refinsihing paint (non cyanide) and

where the flexiglass rubs against the roll bar it rubbed it right

off...So it has to be a tough paint, which I know the Eurethanes are,

but not sure about the AFS.



I'll have a look at it though, it could be a good solution.



I'm still debating  spraying the non cyanide primer and having my expert

friend come over to spray the finish coats as that should be a pretty

small investment...But I'd also love to be able to spray paint too...



Choices, choices...



Thanks for yur thoughts Larry



Frank 



--

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: Paint

Frank,



One way to toughen up any paint is to apply a clear urethane 

overcoat.  You need to check compatibility, but this sort of approach 

may be possible.



Paul

XL wings

do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  So it has to be a tough paint, which I know the Eurethanes are,

but not sure about the AFS.


	


---------------------------------------

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Paint

Bill,

See my Paint page on the website menu for a detailed description of a 

paint booth with pictures.

Right, filtered and enclosed as to fit my home garage with plane inside.

One solution anyway,

Larry



Bill Naumuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Larry-

    What did you wind up doing re: paint booth (Or aren't you to that stage 

yet)? Being familiar with your work, I picture a filtered, temperature and 

humidity controlled environment that doubles as a "Safe Room" in hayfever 

season.

     I think you know me well enough to accept that as a compliment rather 

than criticism!!

                                                                    Bill

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Paint

Larry-

    Wilco. Stored your link in my "Keepers" folder.

    Almost ready to fit the strut tubes to the wing (Yuk-not looking forward 

to it). Contractor is going to start the rough framing on the garanger 

tomorrow- looks like I'll be moving soon. Think I'll just frame a 1' 

extension on my existing "Floating" 4x8 table w/3/4" ply top, put casters on 

it, then slap your coated fiberboard on top.Gonna put casters on one of my 

other workbenches and take it upstairs, leaving the other for Ma to use as a 

laundry table.

                                                             Bill

---

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