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Dependable instruments

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: Dependable instruments

> The UMA may turn out to be a better ASI than the one you spent all that 

 	  Quote: 	
		   money on, the Dynon. I don't know that.


	


 Hi John,

 

  The UMA being the better indicator, naw, I don't think so.  It's hard to 

describe very accurately, but the Dynon airspeed readings were smooth.  

With the pitot inlet propped up in place, directly inline with the airstream, 

I could vary the airspeed readings by adjusting the distance from the pitot opening 

from the hair dryer flow of air.  I could get a reading of about 60 mph 

max (at) 1", or as little as 10-15mph (at) about 12".

  So, with both units reading....let's say 50 mph.  If I don't move anything, they

both continue to read the same airspeed fairly well.  They also both seem to agree 

closely, almost all the time.  Any disparity was never more than 3 mph.

  Now, if I stick my finger in the airsteam just a bit, the Dynon will reflect a

 modest decrease, 1, 2, maybe even 3 mph, but the UMA...no change.  If

 I remove my finger out of the flow of air, the Dynon goes back to 50.  In the

 meantime, the UMA never left 50.

   Would a more expensive pitot style airspeed indicator have performed better?

 Absolutely!!  There is a reason why they cost several hundreds, and this UMA 

 only costs $169.  I've heard it said, you get what you pay for.

    

 	  Quote: 	
		   However, the UMA lags, am guessing you mean it does not change indication 

 instantly, because it has a built in dampner to prevent the needle from 

 bouncing around at every tiny, minute bit of disturbed air, air pressure, 

 etc. Without the dampner the needle would probably be a blur.

  
	


 BTW, it wasn't such that the UMA 'lagged'.  With small airspeed changes, it

 didn't lag, it just didn't change at all!!  If the airspeed pitot pressure exceeded 4-5mph,

 then the needle would move.

   I am not knocking the UMA.  It has shown it performs plenty good enough to 

 provide accurate (enough) airspeed readings.  But, I am convinced a much

 more expensive unit would be 'more sensitive', that's all.

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   To me the most important aspect of the ASI is that it will indicate to me 

 where my stall speed is so I can stay above it.

  
	


   I couldn't agree more!!!!!  As was previously established in an earlier thread,

 regardless of whether your airspeed indicator says 40 or 400, (at stall) THAT'S

 the magic number to  stay above!!



 	  Quote: 	
		   ASI's are very reliable. Usually alway work well enough to establish stall 

 speed

  
	


   That's what I wanted to establish, namely, that these things simply work!!   By all

 accounts, they seem to be functioning quite well.  This fact is all I was counting

 on!  Whatever reading they say at stall, that will be the 'magic number' to stay

 much higher than.

  

 , unless one forgets to take off the pitot cover, a dirt dauber or 

 	  Quote: 	
		   spider takes up residence in the pitot tube, or someone blows into the pitot 

 tube to see if the ASI really works.

 > john h
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   mkIII

 Titus, Alabama


	




   Had that happen to me once.  I was half way down the runway and the airspeed

 indicator was still stuck at zero.  Slow down, turned off the runway, did some 

 investigating.  A mud dauber had made a new home in my pitot tube.  Dug out

 the dirt...worked like a champ!!

   BTW, is anyone curious how fast a hornet is when he is 8" away from your hand,

 while you're checking your oil?  Let's just say, faster than you'd think!!   And yes, they

 do leave scars!!

  

 Mike Welch 



 		 	   		    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Now, if I stick my finger in the airsteam just a bit, the Dynon will 

reflect a

modest decrease, 1, 2, maybe even 3 mph, but the UMA...no change.  If

I remove my finger out of the flow of air, the Dynon goes back to 50.  In 

the

meantime, the UMA never left 50.

 > john h

Mike W/Kolbers:



Sorry, I misunderstood your initial post comparing the two ASI's.



The UMA is probably not slow and/or lagging, but insensitive to small 

changes.  Probably a cheap bellows and operating mechanism.



I tried to get a new UMA tach to work on my 912 some years ago.  Worked with 

the factory techs through three different new UMA tachs.  Never could get it 

to work correctly.  Finally, went back to the Rotax tach.  I wanted a 3 inch 

tach instead of the 2" Rotax tach.



I haven't bought an ASI in some time, but I have always used Winter brand 

built in Germany, primarily for sail planes.



You are correct, Michael.  You get what you pay for.  That's why I have 

flown with the 912 series engines since 1994.  They are outrageously 

exensive, but reliable.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama - Watching the rain drops fall.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:46 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

At 08:05 AM 1/25/11 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

The UMA is probably not slow and/or lagging, but insensitive to small 

changes.  Probably a cheap bellows and operating mechanism.




	


John is correct in that each instrument will have a different threshold to 

incremental change due to the mechanisms internal resistance or friction.



If you are going to compare two different ASI, it is best to put them in the 

same flying environment.  What was the poorest performing may equal the best 

performing when both are subjected normal vibrations due to powered flight.



I use a Winter ASI in the FireFly.  I was disappointed due to it's slow 

reaction time.  I minimized the reaction time by drilling out the flow 

control orifice to the point that it is a little on the nervous side.  



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Another factor may cause lagging response in an otherwise good system.  A bug.

Insect residue such as a small piece of spiderweb can cause a small enough restriction to

give a lagging or a small series of steps in needle response.  Not enough to prevent a steady state reading

which will still be accurate.  Disconnect at the panel and blow out in reverse.

Sorry if this is too obvious.

BB

On 25, Jan 2011, at 10:48 AM, Jack B. Hart wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 08:05 AM 1/25/11 -0600, you wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> The UMA is probably not slow and/or lagging, but insensitive to small 

> changes.  Probably a cheap bellows and operating mechanism.

> 

 John is correct in that each instrument will have a different threshold to 

 incremental change due to the mechanisms internal resistance or friction.

 If you are going to compare two different ASI, it is best to put them in the 

 same flying environment.  What was the poorest performing may equal the best 

 performing when both are subjected normal vibrations due to powered flight.

 I use a Winter ASI in the FireFly.  I was disappointed due to it's slow 

 reaction time.  I minimized the reaction time by drilling out the flow 

 control orifice to the point that it is a little on the nervous side.  

 Jack B. Hart FF004

 Winchester, IN

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Jack,

  

   Hi.  Hiding out from the snow, lately???

  

   Regarding the UMA airspeed indicator, it isn't that it "lags".  Very small 

 airspeed changes do not move the needle....at all.

 It frankly just isn't that high of a quality of an indicator!!  There are $170 

 A/S gauges and there are $800 A/S gauges.  The 'more expensive' gauge 

 will likely be; more accurate, more smooth in operation, and in general, 

 basically perform better.  Maybe not always......but most of the time.

  

   My UMA A/S indicator is a $170 version.  It is 'entry level'.  I chose it

 because I knew I had a back-up.  However, as I said before, it IS reasonably

 accurate.  It performs an adequate job.  If it was my ONLY A/S indicator, I

 would still feel confident I could depend on it (after testing it and verifying that 

 it operates just fine!!)

  

   Having never flown with either the Dynon or the UMA, I just wanted a little

 'piece of mind' that they simply worked!!  Accuracy I can work on later (but 

 from appearances, I doubt I'll need to!!).  But, a completely 'non-working' 

 airspeed system may not give me a 'later', and that's all I was trying to avoid

 with the test.    : (

  

 Mike Welch

  

   

  

   



 		 	   		    [quote][b]

Vic Peters

Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Millinocket, Maine

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Dependable instruments

Anyone

I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. 1st I thought it

was the air flow pitot cover. Not. Started woking during climb. 2nd time

I hit ET (gauge cluster) on the head and it worked.

What should I look for besides a new one?

Vic

912ul

xtra

_________________
Vic
912ul Xtra
Maine
Too old to cut the mustard but not the cheese.

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

> I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 	  Quote: 	
		   912ul

 xtra

  
	


 Hi Vic,

  

   I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

 (I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

 If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

 on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

 them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

 couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

 parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

  

   I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

 polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

  

   It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

 He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

 flawlessly for his flight back to Los Angeles.

  

   So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

 Take it apart, and look.

  

   BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

 light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

 when you drop them.

  

   Just a thought....

  

 Mike Welch



 		 	   		    [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:40 am Post subject: Dependable Instruments

Mike- One note on the ASI.  Check it again after you install it.  I thought I was safe if my ASI read under 20mph.  Didn't move at all while taxiing.  Turned out it was hooked up backwards, leading to my surprise flight.  I had depended on someone else saying the needle had moved while testing it.  I think it must have moved backwards, or something.

  

                                              Bill Sullivan

                                              Windsor Locks, Ct. (snowing again)

                                              FS 447

 [quote][b]

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

All the talk about airspeed indicaters leads to me to ask if I am the only one that routinely practices flying

 with out useing the ASI ,take off, landings, slow flight , stalls ,unsual attitudes .especially takeoffs and landings

 from differant alt above sea level --35ft to over 6000ft .different aproch speeds , landing uphill- downhill or anythin

 else I can think of that will help me to fly the airplane.

 Frank Goodnight



 

   From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 11:18:09 AM

Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Dependable instruments



  > I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 	  Quote: 	
		   912ul

 xtra

 
	


Hi Vic,

 

  I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

(I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

 

  I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

 

  It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

flawlessly for his flight back to  Los Angeles.

 

  So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

Take it apart, and look.

 

  BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

when you drop them.

 

  Just a thought....

 

Mike Welch



[quote][b][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Frank, there are those who can and those who shouldn't  fly without an ASI.  If you are in the former group, you are botha better pilot and better practicing it.  In my aeronca I flew more than one season with it inop.  -Didn't make any difference.

I knew the plane that well.  -although comparing it to a Kolb is apples to oranges.  The aeronca gave more airspeed feedback

via  control heaviness than a Kolb.  Most of the old taildraggers were the same.

Of course there is a big inertia difference between a 800 lb plane and a 1300 lb plane which also has less drag.

The only thing I glanced at occasionally was the oil pressure gauge.

On 25, Jan 2011, at 12:40 PM, frank goodnight wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  All the talk about airspeed indicaters leads to me to ask if I am the only one that routinely practices flying

with out useing the ASI ,take off, landings, slow flight , stalls ,unsual attitudes .especially takeoffs and landings

from differant alt above sea level --35ft to over 6000ft .different aproch speeds , landing uphill- downhill or anythin

else I can think of that will help me to fly the airplane.

Frank Goodnight

From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 11:18:09 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Dependable instruments



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 912ul

 xtra

 
	


Hi Vic,

 

  I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

(I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

 

  I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

 

  It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

flawlessly for his flight back to Los Angeles.

 

  So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

Take it apart, and look.

 

  BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

when you drop them.

 

  Just a thought....

 

Mike Welch



 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	


 [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Yes, Frank,   but how many BRAND NEW, NEVER FLOWN airplanes, 

 with "never proven that they even work" airpeed indicators in them

 have you flown??

  

 When I take my maiden flight, it will be the FIRST time my plane will

 have ever been in the air.  It will also be the FIRST time the

 airspeed instruments will ever be asked to show a useful reading.

  

 No one, (NONE) has said anything about needing an airspeed

 instrument, or NOT needing one.  The subject has just been

 about the accuracy of cheaper vs. more expensive ones.

  

 When I had my Cessna 172, I used to fly all the time not looking at the

 airspeed indicator.  I especially like "super slow flight", where I was 

 practically hanging on the prop, and the stall horn 'a blarin'.

  

 I've crashed an ultralight once.  Hurt so damn bad, I can't even face

 thinking about it.  I darn sure don't want to do that again.  It was one of the top

 two injuries in my life!!!

 

 Sorry if I sound miffed, but you make it seem as if I'm concerned about

 nothing, either that, or you didn't catch the point of the discussion.

 Several of our Kolb friends are not with us anymore.  I'd like to NOT

 join them!!

  

 After a person is familiar with their plane, sure, then they can practice

 lots of flying without an airspeed indicator.  But for me, I'd rather be

 over-cautious with my track record of new flights.

  

 Mike Welch

   Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:40:49 -0800

From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net

Subject: Re: Re: Dependable instruments

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com



   .ExternalClass DIV {;}     All the talk about airspeed indicaters leads to me to ask if I am the only one that routinely practices flying

 with out useing the ASI ,take off, landings, slow flight , stalls ,unsual attitudes .especially takeoffs and landings

 from differant alt above sea level --35ft to over 6000ft .different aproch speeds , landing uphill- downhill or anythin

 else I can think of that will help me to fly the airplane.

 Frank Goodnight



 

   From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 11:18:09 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Dependable instruments



  .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   > I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 	  Quote: 	
		   912ul

 xtra

 
	


Hi Vic,

 

  I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

(I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

 

  I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

 

  It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

flawlessly for his flight back to Los Angeles.

 

  So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

Take it apart, and look.

 

  BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

when you drop them.

 

  Just a thought....

 

Mike Welch



 	  Quote: 	
		  	



[quote][b]



arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



[b]

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:09 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Hi Mike' sorry if I touched a nerve.Didn't mean to upset anyone.Could be I should have used a different thread.

  Answer to your question --how many brand new , never flown, never proven airplanes have I flown?  I've flown 2

 My B8M gyro and my Kolb firestar (after I had built them) Great Fun!!!

Frank Goodnight

 do not archive

   From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 12:45:42 PM

Subject: RE: Re: Dependable instruments



  Yes, Frank,   but how many BRAND NEW, NEVER FLOWN airplanes, 

with "never proven that they even work" airpeed indicators in them

have you flown??

 

When I take my maiden flight, it will be the FIRST time my plane will

have ever been in the air.  It will also be the FIRST time the

airspeed instruments will ever be asked to show a useful reading.

 

No one, (NONE) has said anything about needing an airspeed

instrument, or NOT needing one.  The subject has just been

about the accuracy of cheaper vs. more expensive ones.

 

When I had my Cessna 172, I used to fly all the time not looking at the

airspeed indicator.  I especially like "super slow flight", where I was 

practically hanging on the prop, and the stall horn 'a blarin'.

 

I've crashed an ultralight once.  Hurt so damn bad, I can't  even face

thinking about it.  I darn sure don't want to do that again.  It was one of the top

two injuries in my life!!!

 

Sorry if I sound miffed, but you make it seem as if I'm concerned about

nothing, either that, or you didn't catch the point of the discussion.

Several of our Kolb friends are not with us anymore.  I'd like to NOT

join them!!

 

After a person is familiar with their plane, sure, then they can practice

lots of flying without an airspeed indicator.  But for me, I'd rather be

over-cautious with my track record of new flights.

 

Mike Welch

  Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:40:49 -0800

From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net

Subject: Re: Re: Dependable instruments

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com



  .ExternalClass DIV {}     All the talk about airspeed indicaters leads to me to ask if I am the only one that routinely practices flying

 with out useing the ASI ,take off, landings, slow flight , stalls ,unsual attitudes .especially takeoffs and landings

 from differant alt above sea level --35ft to over 6000ft .different aproch speeds , landing uphill- downhill or anythin

 else I can think of that will help me to fly the airplane.

 Frank Goodnight



 

   From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 11:18:09 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Dependable instruments



  .ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   > I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 	  Quote: 	
		   912ul

 xtra

 
	


Hi Vic,

 

  I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

(I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

 

  I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

 

  It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

flawlessly for his flight back to  Los Angeles.

 

  So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

Take it apart, and look.

 

  BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

when you drop them.

 

  Just a thought....

 

Mike Welch



 	  Quote: 	
		  	



[quote][b]


arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution


http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Listhttp://www.mat=====================


[b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Hi Mike' sorry if I touched a nerve.Didn't mean to upset anyone.

  

 No problem, Frank.

  

 I would agree if anybody said I was touchy about flying my

 new Kolb, though.  I applaud you for your two maiden

 flight successes.  Oh, how I dream of that day (and live to

 brag about it!!)

  

 Back when I crashed my U/L, it was MY fault.  I did not have

 sufficient or recent training.  I do NOT want to make that mistake

 again!

 If I were to crash like the last time, and I were given the choice of

 the same pain, or death, it would be a tough call, you can believe me

 on that one.

  

 I think all pilots should be completely familiar with as much of

 the flight experience as they can be.  Practice, practice, practice.

 The more practice we have, the safer we should be.  And safe

 is always a good thing.

  

 Mike W

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

It will also be the FIRST time the airspeed  instruments will ever be asked to show a useful reading.>>

  

 Hi Mike,

  

 It is a bonus if your ASI reads spot on. Most ASI`s  do not. What IS important is that you know where on the dial the needle points  when you stall. It really doesn`t matter what the numbers read. If it reads 30,  stay above 30. If it reads 40 stay above 40.

  

 That should get the feathers flying

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

 



   [quote][b]

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

It is a bonus if your ASI reads spot on. Most ASI`s  do not. What IS important is that you know where on the dial the needle points  when you stall. It really doesn`t matter what the numbers read. If it reads 30,  stay above 30. If it reads 40 stay above 40.

  

 That should get the feathers flying

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 what you say is true enough....   but it  helps when you go flying with a friend...  to be at least somewhere in the  ball park.

  

 boyd young

 mkiii

 do not archive



   [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

Hi Pat,

 

  You are absolutely correct, and I'm quite aware of that.  In fact, I stated what you 

 said several times.  "Whether it reads 40 or 400" comes to mind.  Plus, the "that's 

 the 'magic' number to stay above"! This aspect of an ASI I am well aware of.  Thanks

  

  I also said I wasn't exactly interested in it being "perfect", but rather, that it works

at all.   If it consistently reads 6 mph fast...or 8 mph too slow, I can live with this

information, providing it does so across it's entire reading scale.

   In fact, I can say that I understand that it doesn't even need to have ANY numbers

 on it's maiden flight.  Right?  I mean, what a guy would be looking for is that exact location 

 on the dial where the needle is when a stall is imminent.

   It would seem to me that an ASI should be more viewed as a "stall warning indicator",

 in the early stages of initial flights.  The pilot should not be so focused on a number, 

 but rather the needle's precise position.

 

  A 'slightly off' calibration is very tolerable.  An ASI that's reads a constant 30 whether 

you're traveling at 45mph AND also 85mph won't be very useful.    My little wind tunnel 

 project was simply to establish that "they worked", nothing more than a basic proof that 

 little spiders or other creatures hadn't made their homes inside the holes.....(I didn't really

think that, I was just kidding, they are both brand new, and kept in their factory 

boxes prior to installation)   

   However!! 

   Have you guys ever bought something "brand new".....and it work?  I have!!!

   Years ago, I owned an old Datsun pickup.  It was running poorly and I couldn't figure it out,

 so I called a mobile mechanic.  He suggested we change the "points and condensor", 

 which we did.  But after they were installed, the truck would not start!!!  We assumed we

 had the points off a bit, or a milion other ideas we tried.  Nothing!!  After screwing with

 absolutely everything there is to work on for about 3-4 hours, and being certain of 

 everything.....we said let's get another new set of points and consensor (at a different store).

   Off to the different store, then back home, installed the new sets.  Turned the key....vrooooom.

 Ran like a top!!!  We spent the biggest part of a day wasted, due to a defective "brand 

 new set" of parts.  (the condensor was bad)

  

   I just didn't want my airspeed system to be included in that list of unproven parts, that's all.

  

 Mike Welch

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: Dependable instruments

List,

  

   In my previously reply to Pat, I asked if everyone had bought

 something brand new, and it worked.  Duhh!!!  My typo!!

   I meant "didn't work!!"

  

   I had originally said it correctly, but then modified it.  But after I 

 read it again, I reworded it back to what I origanally said, but I

 accidently omitted "didn't".

  

   Sorry for the confusion.

  

 Mike

 		 	   		    [quote][b]

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: Dependable instruments

Talking about instruments. I had to convert to a mode S trnspndr FAA requirement for me. Anyway I have available for sale a mode C trnsponder including the mode C encoder. The stuff works when I removed it. I thought I am going to use it on my M3X, but I rather have the money. If anyone wants to buy it contact me offline and make an offer.



Ron (at) KFHU



======================

---- Vic Peters <vicsv(at)myfairpoint.net> wrote: 



=============




Anyone

I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. 1st I thought it

was the air flow pitot cover. Not. Started woking during climb. 2nd time

I hit ET (gauge cluster) on the head and it worked.

What should I look for besides a new one?

Vic

912ul

xtra



--------

Vic

912ul Xtra

Maine

Too old to cut the mustard but not the cheese.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=328430#328430



--

kugelair.com

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: Dependable instruments

That damned Pterodactyl I flew a while ago had no gauges at all, not even a one. I bought an ASI the plastic tube one to feel fancy in the last couple of flights. Really don't need gauges, its easy to sense when you ain't feeling no wind and the nose points down. Flew the Sierra that way too a couple of times back when I used a tennis ball for pitot tube cover. No big deal either. It does not take long to get the feel for it, like 30 seconds.





=============



Yes, Frank,   but how many BRAND NEW, NEVER FLOWN airplanes, 

with "never proven that they even work" airpeed indicators in them

have you flown??

 

When I take my maiden flight, it will be the FIRST time my plane will

have ever been in the air.  It will also be the FIRST time the

airspeed instruments will ever be asked to show a useful reading.

 

No one, (NONE) has said anything about needing an airspeed

instrument, or NOT needing one.  The subject has just been

about the accuracy of cheaper vs. more expensive ones.

 

When I had my Cessna 172, I used to fly all the time not looking at the

airspeed indicator.  I especially like "super slow flight", where I was 

practically hanging on the prop, and the stall horn 'a blarin'.

 

I've crashed an ultralight once.  Hurt so damn bad, I can't even face

thinking about it.  I darn sure don't want to do that again.  It was one of the top

two injuries in my life!!!

 

Sorry if I sound miffed, but you make it seem as if I'm concerned about

nothing, either that, or you didn't catch the point of the discussion.

Several of our Kolb friends are not with us anymore.  I'd like to NOT

join them!!

 

After a person is familiar with their plane, sure, then they can practice

lots of flying without an airspeed indicator.  But for me, I'd rather be

over-cautious with my track record of new flights.

 

Mike Welch

Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:40:49 -0800

From: frank.goodnight(at)att.net

Subject: Re: Re: Dependable instruments

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

All the talk about airspeed indicaters leads to me to ask if I am the only one that routinely practices flying

with out useing the ASI ,take off, landings, slow flight , stalls ,unsual attitudes .especially takeoffs and landings

from differant alt above sea level --35ft to over 6000ft .different aproch speeds , landing uphill- downhill or anythin

else I can think of that will help me to fly the airplane.

Frank Goodnight



From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 11:18:09 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Dependable instruments



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a UMA asi. It stopped working a couple times. > Vic

 912ul

 xtra

 
	


Hi Vic,

 

  I took apart a poorly working TSO'd airspeed indicator once.

(I've taken apart two airspeed indicators, and put them back together)

If I remember correctly, there was very slight metal corrosion

on the internal moving and touching parts.  I carefully cleaned

them up with an electronic parts cleaner product, put on a 

couple of tiny drops of mineral oil (really tiny!!!) on the moving

parts where they contact, and it worked like a champ!!

 

  I even took the time to clean the dial face real nice, and purdy.  I

polished the glass lens, and put the whole arrangement back together.

 

  It was given to me for free.  I sold it for $130 to a guy on eBay.

He installed it immediately after getting it, and said it worked

flawlessly for his flight back to Los Angeles.

 

  So, in a nutshell, I'd say you might have some light corrosion.

Take it apart, and look.

 

  BTW, you'll want a spotless work environment!!  Lay out a clean

light colored towel.  Light colored so you can see the tiny little screws,

when you drop them.

 

  Just a thought....

 

Mike Welch





 		 	   		  

--

kugelair.com

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