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loboflyer(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. |
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This is a good time to introduce myself to the list. I'm doing almost this same configuration to an RV-6A -- with batteries up front, of course. It was bought flying a few years ago by my father-in-law so he isn't the builder. He wants to replace the steam gauges and mags and move to an all electric airplane. It will have dual GRT (one HX, one HS) screens, and EIS 4000, and dual LSE Plasma III ignitions. I'm just the electrical designer since it is his plane, though since they now live closer to me, maybe I will get to fly it occasionally!
Mission: Day/Night VFR, future path to IFR when pilots get rated and plane gets the right GPS.
Our plan was to use something like Z13/8 with a small SLA (alarm system type, 4 ~ 5AH) battery as an AUX battery, diode connected to the main battery bus. (Incidentally, I see in Z10, Z30, and Z35 no diode on the AUX battery line -- why is it not needed? On Z10 I see that it powers the whole E-bus, but not on Z30 & Z35.) This aux battery would only support one LSE ignition ("primary -- #1") and the GRT system during cranking. I hadn't even thought about kickback -- this was originally for brownout on the GRTs. If it is a demonstrable and catastrophic failure mode, why is it still allowed to exist? In my simplified view of things, I think the fix would look like this: if input voltage too low, then no spark trigger allowed.
For ignition controls, my FIL wants to use toggle switches with #1 having momentary starter engagement at full up position, rather than a separate starter button.
Other questions for the list: Does the inclusion of the limited mission, small aux battery justify its weight? What would be a simpler configuration with similar benefits?
-Jeff-
Albuquerque, NM
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
| Quote: | Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions to ensure they see higher than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of starter kickback.
|
Turn the ignition switches on after you hit the
starter button. The 'brownout' lasts but 100 milliseconds
or so. Is the 8.5v number from Lightspeed? I believe the
ignition systems run at well under 8.5 volts.
??? Don't understand Ign #1 sparking cylinders 1&2 and #2
ignition sparking 3&4 ??????
| Quote: | I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which has the high current draw at start. Should I move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Battery Bus?
|
No. I'd put one on a battery bus, the other on the
e-bus. If you were sparking all 4 cylinders with
EACH ignition system, then alternator-out ops would
call for turning one ignition OFF>
| Quote: | 2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone due to W&B needs with about a 12ft run aft of the firewall. I estimated the starter would see about 10.3V after losses. Does this sound right?
|
That's fine.
| Quote: | 3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info System (EIS 4000) to enable them to be ON during engine start. I want the EIS on to monitor engine vitals (oil pressure). For the EFIS/AHRS…it can take up to two minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer not to burn gas, make noise, and blow stuff around while I wait for alignment.
|
At engine idle? Don't you let things warm up a bit
before you drive off? I think there are plenty of
things on a well crafted check-list to soak up
2 minutes wile the AHRS gets up on its feet.
If you're charging off into the deep woods with this
airplane, battery maintenance is VERY high on the
list. I think I'd rather have a better payload and
one battery that's changed out often than two
batteries that need extra-ordinary attention.
| Quote: | I’d like everything ready, checklist complete up to the point of "ignition", then start up, and taxi away. I’m considering moving the 2nd EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus as well, or a Brownout Battery Bus.
|
Simpler is ALWAYS better if you can configure an
operating procedure that accommodates the special
needs for some accessories.
| Quote: | 4) Overall does the wiring schematic make sense? What mistakes did I make? Can it be simplified?
|
Yes . . . none that I can see beyond questions cited above . . . and yes.
| Quote: | I've attached two versions of the architecture. One is printable (4 pages) to read, and the other screen viewable. I’ve also attached my electrical bus load analysis.
|
Nice job
Bob . . .
[b]
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dsvs(at)ca.rr.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:09 pm Post subject: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign. |
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|
It might be worth while to try PMAGS and get the GRTs with internal backup batteries. This eliminates all of your concerns. I run a similar system except I have AFS instead of GRT.
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff B.
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 9:25 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Need help in reviewing Z10/8 arch for dual Lightspeed ign.
This is a good time to introduce myself to the list. I'm doing almost this same configuration to an RV-6A -- with batteries up front, of course. It was bought flying a few years ago by my father-in-law so he isn't the builder. He wants to replace the steam gauges and mags and move to an all electric airplane. It will have dual GRT (one HX, one HS) screens, and EIS 4000, and dual LSE Plasma III ignitions. I'm just the electrical designer since it is his plane, though since they now live closer to me, maybe I will get to fly it occasionally!
Mission: Day/Night VFR, future path to IFR when pilots get rated and plane gets the right GPS.
Our plan was to use something like Z13/8 with a small SLA (alarm system type, 4 ~ 5AH) battery as an AUX battery, diode connected to the main battery bus. (Incidentally, I see in Z10, Z30, and Z35 no diode on the AUX battery line -- why is it not needed? On Z10 I see that it powers the whole E-bus, but not on Z30 & Z35.) This aux battery would only support one LSE ignition ("primary -- #1") and the GRT system during cranking. I hadn't even thought about kickback -- this was originally for brownout on the GRTs. If it is a demonstrable and catastrophic failure mode, why is it still allowed to exist? In my simplified view of things, I think the fix would look like this: if input voltage too low, then no spark trigger allowed.
For ignition controls, my FIL wants to use toggle switches with #1 having momentary starter engagement at full up position, rather than a separate starter button.
Other questions for the list: Does the inclusion of the limited mission, small aux battery justify its weight? What would be a simpler configuration with similar benefits?
-Jeff-
Albuquerque, NM
On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
Some challenges I'm still scratching my head over include:
1) How best to wire the dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions to ensure they see higher than 8.5V during engine start to minimize chance of starter kickback.
Turn the ignition switches on after you hit the
starter button. The 'brownout' lasts but 100 milliseconds
or so. Is the 8.5v number from Lightspeed? I believe the
ignition systems run at well under 8.5 volts.
??? Don't understand Ign #1 sparking cylinders 1&2 and #2
ignition sparking 3&4 ?????? | Quote: |
I'm using a Skytec 149-12LS starter (PMG) which has the high current draw at start. Should I move both Lightspeed ignitions to a Brownout Battery Bus? |
No. I'd put one on a battery bus, the other on the
e-bus. If you were sparking all 4 cylinders with
EACH ignition system, then alternator-out ops would
call for turning one ignition OFF>
2) My batteries are also located in the tailcone due to W&B needs with about a 12ft run aft of the firewall. I estimated the starter would see about 10.3V after losses. Does this sound right?
That's fine.
3) How best to wire my dual Grand Rapids EFIS/AHRS and the Engine Info System (EIS 4000) to enable them to be ON during engine start. I want the EIS on to monitor engine vitals (oil pressure). For the EFIS/AHRS…it can take up to two minutes to align the AHRS, and I'd prefer not to burn gas, make noise, and blow stuff around while I wait for alignment.
At engine idle? Don't you let things warm up a bit
before you drive off? I think there are plenty of
things on a well crafted check-list to soak up
2 minutes wile the AHRS gets up on its feet.
If you're charging off into the deep woods with this
airplane, battery maintenance is VERY high on the
list. I think I'd rather have a better payload and
one battery that's changed out often than two
batteries that need extra-ordinary attention. | Quote: |
I’d like everything ready, checklist complete up to the point of "ignition", then start up, and taxi away. I’m considering moving the 2nd EFIS/AHRS to the Endurance bus as well, or a Brownout Battery Bus. |
Simpler is ALWAYS better if you can configure an
operating procedure that accommodates the special
needs for some accessories. | Quote: |
4) Overall does the wiring schematic make sense? What mistakes did I make? Can it be simplified? |
Yes . . . none that I can see beyond questions cited above . . . and yes. | Quote: |
I've attached two versions of the architecture. One is printable (4 pages) to read, and the other screen viewable. I’ve also attached my electrical bus load analysis. |
Nice job
Bob . . .
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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