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Arty Trost
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Sandy, Oregon
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 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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I have a 2-piece radiator on my upright-mounted Rotax 582. All of the pilots at my airfield "regulate" the water temps using duct tape around the radiators in the winter (covering approximately 1/2-3/4 of each radiator) and taking the duct tape off in the summer. We fly at altitudes of approximately 1000-3000' MSL.
I will be flying to Oshkosh this summer and will be flying at altitudes of up to 11,000' across Wyoming - yet on-the-ground temps will be pretty warm. It makes me nervous to think of using this duct tape system.
What other options do I have?
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
[quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:11 am Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Hello Arty:
Not an issue...
Leave the duct tape OFF.
If you think about it, you drop 2 degrees per 1000 feet.
So 11 x 2 = 22 degree change.
What is the surface temps?
It's summer time right!
So let's say 80 F
80 - 22 = 58 F
Lets drop to 70 F
70 - 22 = 40 F
STILL not a problem.
FORGET ABOUT IT!
Barry
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, TheWanderingWench <thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I have a 2-piece radiator on my upright-mounted Rotax 582. All of the pilots at my airfield "regulate" the water temps using duct tape around the radiators in the winter (covering approximately 1/2-3/4 of each radiator) and taking the duct tape off in the summer. We fly at altitudes of approximately 1000-3000' MSL.
I will be flying to Oshkosh this summer and will be flying at altitudes of up to 11,000' across Wyoming - yet on-the-ground temps will be pretty warm. It makes me nervous to think of using this duct tape system.
What other options do I have?
Arty Trost
Sandy, Oregon
www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm
"Life's a daring adventure or nothing"
Helen Keller
"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death."
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ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Hi Arty,
I haven't seen you around on any forums as of late. Nice to hear you still flying. I agree with Barry. Many people use the tape on the radiator in the colder months which is fine. When you fly this summer leave the tape off. You will most likely over heat on the way to 11K. Why fly so high? You should be able to go through passes even around the mountains. The only time I ever get that high is over the Rockies.
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
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trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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The problem is if you forget this valve closed, when the engine needs more
cooling, you will simply fry it
Carlos
[quote] --
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Matt:
That seems like a lot of variables. Especially when you add the human factor in forgetting to monitor it and forgetting to open it.
Why not just install a simple automotive temp valve in series and you are done.
Of course you will have to manufacture a housing.
Doesn't ROTAX have something for this?
AND if you go the route of the automotive thermostat you could also put a ball valve across (shunt) the thermostat in case of thermostat failure.
Barry
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Matt Tucciarone <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com (m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Ok,
The coolant goes out of my hot engine, then to the heater. After the heater, I have a brass ball valve that I can reach in the cockpit. Then it goes to the radiator and then back to the engine. I try to keep my water temp around 180 to 190f.
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr (elleryweld(at)aol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:02 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
Matt Tucciarone
You got to explain a little more about your system a Ball Valve between your heater and engine is not enough, do you have external cooler/Coolers? in this system. also what Temp are you controlling the heater or the engine Temp ?
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Tucciarone <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com (m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
I have been using a ball valve between my heater and the engine. I have the valve in the cockpit so I am able to just dial in the temp I want. I got this tip from the guys up in Canada. It works great.
From: TheWanderingWench (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 11:46 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
Nope - no thermostat or mixture control.
I guess I should look into both.
Thanks, Bob - I should have guessed that you'd be able to respond to this question.
Arty
--- On Mon, 4/4/11, Bob Comperini <bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | >What other options do I have?
Do you have a thermostat on the engine?
Not sure you'll need anything else besides that, but there are some people making louver systems for some radiator setups. here's one: http://www.theultralightplace.com/new_page_8.htm
How about mixture control?
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=bob(at)fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
p; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEnginebsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matrobsp; - List Contribution Web Site -http://w=======================
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:09 am Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Matt:
That seems like a lot of variables. Especially when you add the human factor in forgetting to monitor it and forgetting to open it.
Why not just install a simple automotive temp valve in series and you are done.
Of course you will have to manufacture a housing.
Doesn't ROTAX have something for this?
AND if you go the route of the automotive thermostat you could also put a ball valve across (shunt) the thermostat in case of thermostat failure.
Barry
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Matt Tucciarone <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com (m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Ok,
The coolant goes out of my hot engine, then to the heater. After the heater, I have a brass ball valve that I can reach in the cockpit. Then it goes to the radiator and then back to the engine. I try to keep my water temp around 180 to 190f.
From: Ellery Batchelder Jr (elleryweld(at)aol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:02 AM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
Matt Tucciarone
You got to explain a little more about your system a Ball Valve between your heater and engine is not enough, do you have external cooler/Coolers? in this system. also what Temp are you controlling the heater or the engine Temp ?
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Tucciarone <m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com (m.tucciarone(at)hotmail.com)>
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 7:19 am
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
I have been using a ball valve between my heater and the engine. I have the valve in the cockpit so I am able to just dial in the temp I want. I got this tip from the guys up in Canada. It works great.
From: TheWanderingWench (thewanderingwench(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 11:46 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582
Nope - no thermostat or mixture control.
I guess I should look into both.
Thanks, Bob - I should have guessed that you'd be able to respond to this question.
Arty
--- On Mon, 4/4/11, Bob Comperini <bob(at)fly-ul.com (bob(at)fly-ul.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | >What other options do I have?
Do you have a thermostat on the engine?
Not sure you'll need anything else besides that, but there are some people making louver systems for some radiator setups. here's one: http://www.theultralightplace.com/new_page_8.htm
How about mixture control?
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: wlmailhtml:/mc/compose?to=bob(at)fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
p; --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEnginebsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matrobsp; - List Contribution Web Site -http://w=======================
|
[b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Carlos, There's that, and there's the fact that a piece of carboard and a few feet of duct tape is about 5 cents. I run a Honda Sabre radiator with my 582 on a Kolb Mk III and I blocked half off for winter months. January 1st it was 32 degrees for the high temp in southern Kansas and I flew for an hour. The temps never got out of the green zone for the engine, but they sure did for me.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:
[quote] --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>
The problem is if you forget this valve closed, when the engine needs more
cooling, you will simply fry it
Carlos
> --
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Arty, See other reply and add this. The only time I see a problem with temps on my 582, and I pull the cardboard / duct tape block off when the temps get above 50 for daytime highs is on approach. The temps will drop to 100 / 110 or so even if I try to maintain 3000 RPM to keep pumping some heat into the engine. Even then my only concern is doing touch and go landings. Makes me nervous going to full throttle from that low a temp. At cruise the temps are in the green arc and not a problem. If your flight path is along highway 80 you should be able to stay below 10, 000. Things are pretty flat from Rock Springs on east to Cheyenne even though you go over the Continental Divide twice.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 7:05 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld(at)aol.com (elleryweld(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] thank you for the details on your system
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
--
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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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Goodone
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Questions about radiator & duct tape on a 582 |
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Arty: I know that you have flown most everywhere in this country in your Drifter with the Rotax 503 and would be interested in knowing why you switched from your trusty Rotax 503 to the 582? With all of your flying experience, your reasons for the change and experiences with the Rotax 582 would be most interesting.
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