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Engine choices

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dlegg(at)tpg.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: Engine choices

Hello all,

With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go 

any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines? 

BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per 

hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is 

this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a 

perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest 

technology before 100LL becomes redundant.

Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject.

Darryl.

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: Engine choices

The guys who are flying the 601XL with the Jabiru 3300 engine with the 

economy carb tuning mod and Sensenich wood 2 blade prop are burning about 5 

gph at 125 mph indicated. I'm guessing this holds true even if you use 95 

RON auto fuel.... not sure about that. Hard to beat 25 mpg at 125 mph in a 

straight line.



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL / wings

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: Engine choices

Hi Darryl,



What a great question!



I don't have any great answers, but I do have comments on the whole subject.



I think of airplanes as conversion engines that turn fuel into 

flight.  One characteristic of this is the amount of fuel you use 

controls the amount of flight you get.  More fuel means more climb or 

cruise speed or some other quality used to measure performance.



That means we must consider the performance achieved in our planes 

along with fuel consumption.  The engines used in Zodiacs seem to 

range from around 80 to 130 horsepower.  I assume you can get similar 

performance from a 130 horsepower engine running at 65% as you get 

from a 100 horsepower engine running at 85% power.  If these engines 

weigh the same then it seems a fair comparison.



I think the diesel technology may indeed be more efficient than 

gasoline engine technology.  The diesel engines are heavier but they 

like the constant rpm use in airplanes better than the variable rpm 

use they get in cars.  Alas, I am not aware of a diesel engine the 

proper size and design to be used in our airplanes.  Also, many small 

airports sell avgas, but you need to go to the big ones to get diesel 

fuel AKA jet fuel.



I hope I am shown to be wrong in these issues.  I still have time to 

change my engine choice if someone can show there is a real 

efficiency advantage to be had.  For now I prefer to buy the most 

power I can put in my plane (Jabiru 3300) and get my efficiency from 

reduced throttle settings.



Paul

XL wings

do not archive





 	  Quote: 	
		  Hello all,

With the exorbitant price of fuel at the moment, and not likely to go

any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?

BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per

hour. Smart car turbo-diesel is another option, but with only 82hp (is

this really enough for the XL?). Seems to me that new builders are in a

perfect position to beat the oil companies and upgrade to latest

technology before 100LL becomes redundant.

Thanking you all for your valuable input on this subject.

Darryl.

xl(at)prosody.org
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: Engine choices

OPERATOR'S HANDBOOK FOR TAKEOFF DRIVE UNIT FITTED TO BMW R1100 ...

The drive unit is designed to fit the BMW R1100 / R1200 / R1250 engine

providing a reduction gear ...



www.microlightsport.co.uk/images/BMWMANUALV6.pdf



Joe E

N633Z (at) BFI

332 hours

CH601XL, Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49

On Mon, 8 May 2006, Darryl Legg wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 ....snip

 any cheaper, has anyone been researching low fuel consumption engines?

 BMW now has a R1250 engine, around 110hp and only burns 8-9 litres per

 ...snip

 Darryl.



 do not archive

rdewees(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: Engine choices

Hi Ed, I can't verify the XL fuel burn but my 601 HDS TD with Jab 3300 

and Bing with econo tune kit consistently gets 4.2 to 4.4 gph at 125/128 

mph GPS IAS (calibrated).  I've verified it three times on 1 hour 

flights in both directions and different conditions.  Plane is light 

compared to XL at 605 pounds empty and that may make the difference.  

EGT readings are 1300 -1360 F.  Temps were lower and fuel burn was 

higher before using the econo carb mod but it took a bit of time to get 

the CHT temps down because they also went up when I put the kit in.  

Everything is fine now and highest CHT is less than 250F at cruse.  

There are a lot of tinker factors to deal with but they are worth 

sorting out and this list has a lot of helpful folks who have been thru 

whatever your problem is and have suggestions.

 Ron DeWees N601TD  130 hours



Edward Moody II wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



The guys who are flying the 601XL with the Jabiru 3300 engine with the 

economy carb tuning mod and Sensenich wood 2 blade prop are burning about 5 

gph at 125 mph indicated. I'm guessing this holds true even if you use 95 

RON auto fuel.... not sure about that. Hard to beat 25 mpg at 125 mph in a 

straight line.



Ed Moody II

Rayne, LA

601XL / wings

thilo.kind(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: Engine choices

Hi Darryl,



the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about

that. Are you sure?



Anyway,  I guess, there is not much difference in fuel consumption of modern

engines of same hp and weight. Plus, we have to get used to the fact, that

fuel prices will continue to climb (by the way: you folks in the US are

still pretty lucky in this regard - you should see the prices here in good

old Europe...).



Diesel is indeed a better option, since the Diesel engines are more

efficient, but I'm not aware of a Diesel engine in the 80 to 100 hp range.



Whats else? Guess, we are stuck with the current engines. New technology

such as fuel cell / electric motor will take a while to be developed..



Nevertheless: happy flying to y'all



Thilo Kind

---

mcr01steiner(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: Engine choices

 	  Quote: 	
		  



the Smart car engine is available in the Diesel version? Never heard about

that. Are you sure?




	


 I was feeding my Smart cdi withDiesel for the last 127'000 km and  it's still running fine. So I am pretty sure it is a Diesel, and it's  turbocharged. 



But since I saw this:http://www.smartuki.com/ I am thinking of  changing the engine of my Smart. 

 

Christoph Steiner 

601 XL 



do not archive

thilo.kind(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: Engine choices

Hi Jari,



I am located in Europe. Actually looking to find a good deal on a 60 kW

Smart Roadster at the moment. Unfortuantely, prices are still too high.



However, I haven't spent too much time on the Smart car at all, so it was

new to me, that they also make a Diesel.



For our American friends (since the Smart is not sold in the US): The Smart

is a 2 seater car made by a JV with Chrysler Daimler. It is tiny even for

European standards - you probably can load two of those things on the flat

bed of a Ford 250 pickup. Engine is a 3 cyclinder 4 stroke engine (various

hp versions available). A few guys came out with a Smart engine converted or

airplane use . The engine is light weight, burns mogas, and produces around

100 hp.



Thilo Kind

---

frankroskind(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: Engine choices

I went to www.smart.com and there they have a diesel for the four seater, 

but not for the other models.  It is interesting that their otto cycle 

engines have two spark plugs per cylinder.



Frank Roskind

Do not archive

From: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net>

Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

To: <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Engine choices

Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 22:42:23 +0200






Hi Jari,



I am located in Europe. Actually looking to find a good deal on a 60 kW

Smart Roadster at the moment. Unfortuantely, prices are still too high.



However, I haven't spent too much time on the Smart car at all, so it was

new to me, that they also make a Diesel.



For our American friends (since the Smart is not sold in the US): The Smart

is a 2 seater car made by a JV with Chrysler Daimler. It is tiny even for

European standards - you probably can load two of those things on the flat

bed of a Ford 250 pickup. Engine is a 3 cyclinder 4 stroke engine (various

hp versions available). A few guys came out with a Smart engine converted or

airplane use . The engine is light weight, burns mogas, and produces around

100 hp.



Thilo Kind

---

redplanet(at)proofzone.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: Engine Choices

For photos of a Smart diesel installed in a CH601, go to:



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html.



Last three pix at the bottom of the page.

Michael Valentine

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 108

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:36 am Post subject: Engine Choices

Does anyone know whose plane that is?  It would be interesting to learn mor=

e

about.



Michael Valentine



On 5/10/06, Larry Martin <redplanet(at)proofzone.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 For photos of a Smart diesel installed in a CH601, go to:



 http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html.



 Last three pix at the bottom of the page.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Choices

That link doesn't work.



 	  redplanet(at)proofzone.co wrote: 	
		  For photos of a Smart diesel installed in a CH601, go to:



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html.



Last three pix at the bottom of the page.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Martin Pohl

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: CH-8645 Jona SG, Switzerland

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Engine choices

http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/6-photo4.html



Pictures at the bottom of the page...

_________________
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: Engine choices

Double check - it continues to work fine for me.



-- Craig 



--

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