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philperry9(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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Ted,
Thanks for the report. Any idea what sparked the fuel? I'd like to figure out what the ignition source is.
Phil
On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:55 PM, Ted Chang <tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I got the airplane back to the hangar and took a look into the engine compartment. Now I am pretty sure the cause of the fire is a loose fuel line b-nut on the mechanical fuel pump. It is entirely my mistake. So, my follow builders, make sure all your nuts and fittings are tightened. You don't need to worry about the fire problem I experienced. A few observations to follow:
a. The fuel flow down and under the tunnel. I did not know when the fire started since it was burning underneath.
b. After the fire burnt through the tunnel floor, it sent up some smoke smell.
c. Soon brake line and fuel line melted and the brake fluid produced a lot of smoke.
d. After brake fluid was consumed there were little smoke.
e. Fire did burn up around the mechanical fuel pump and up around left mag. Wire bundle attached to the engine mount on top the mag is charred.
f. Fire did not burn through the aluminum heat boxes. The sealant on top of the heat boxes are gone but not the ones around them.
g. I used plastic bushing, RTV, then a thick coat of 3M fire barrier sealant for firewall penetration. None of them get compromised.
h. I brought firewall insulator but have not installed yet. It would not do anything for this particular case.
i. The insulator on the tunnel floor can not withstand the fire. Most of them are gone with the floor.
j. Nose gear link (WD1016) folded and the rest of the nose gear are in good shape.
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:30 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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Good job and quick thinking. The best thing is that you are here to tell about it.
do not archive.
On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:53 AM, Ted Chang wrote:
| Quote: |
I thought I owe you, my fellow RV-10 builder some information. At this point the plane is still sitting in the field and I have been spending the time doing statements and answering inquiries from friends. Without opening the tunnel and cowling I can not say for sure what happened. Here are my observations:
a. Fire was limited to the tunnel.
b. It is a fuel leak inside the tunnel that fed into the fire.
c. Fuel has been leaking some time before the fire started on this particular flight (based on the high fuel flow). Fuel flow was normal when I taxied out and on the take off.
d. The smoke thinned out soon after I jettisoned the door. Although I still did not have much in-flight visibility, by the time the airplane stopped the cabin was almost cleared of smoke.
e. There is no time to think. When my right leg felt warm I banked quickly and put it on the ground soon.
f. After I turn off the fuel (it did shut off) there were still small fire but limited to inside the tunnel.
g. Dead stick is very hard to do. RV-10 is nose heavy. I put two tool boxes in my baggage compartment to keep the CG in the limit (my W&B requirement).
h. I have not calibrated my stall warning system. The buzzer goes off at around 60 kts. So, it was not a full stall landing. The field slopes up and I had a three point.
i. Don't rely on emergency checklist. Remember the important steps and just do it. There is no time and visibility to find the checklist.
Some facts:
a. There is no modification on my fuel system.
b. The door is still good except the area where bolts go through. It is the quickest way to get ride of the smoke and get visibility from the opening.
c. The fire damage seems to be limited to around tunnel and firewall. I do have insulation inside the tunnel floor and up on firewall.
d. Propeller strike and powder fire extinguisher from the fire department probably caused more damage than the fire.
I have to admit that for a few seconds when the smoke came out and my leg felt the heat I had a thought that I was in deep trouble (burn to death). I quickly focused on the tasks in front of me and tried to fly the airplane and solve the problems I was facing. From that point on there was no fear or regret. After I called 911 and my insurance agent I got to walk down the hill, wait and think. My only negative thought was that my accident might negatively impact a lot of builders. I don't want to see anyone get disencouraged. I am pretty sure that what happened to me is not a design flaw, but a builder mistake. After I found the problem I will share with you so you can avoid this problem.
Ted
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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Awesome data gathering Ted. Thanks so much for the follow-up.
When I do a final assembly I use the yellow torque seal on the
hardware. If it's missing, I know I've not tightened it down.
Back when I was a baby pilot, I bought the Grumman AA-1B I got my ticket
in. I took it back to the FBO I bought it from and they did the 'first'
annual ..... just before the fly-in at Lakeland FL (which started
Sun-n-Fun the next year). I started up to leave and I noticed a
handfull of folks running around giving me the 'cut off' sign. I shut
down and climbed out to find that they saw fluid spraying out from under
the cowl. When the FBO did the annual, the A&P pulled the B nut off the
inlet to the electric fuel pump to check and clean the screen. It went
back on finger tight, if that. I flew about 100 miles all total before
the problem was discovered. My Angels were at work. And that's the
last annual anyone else wrenched on my planes. I do all the
owner-assisted annuals and fix the squawks. MY A&P/IA does the paperwork.
Is the airframe undamaged?? Just gear and door???
Linn
On 4/28/2011 7:55 PM, Ted Chang wrote:
| Quote: |
I got the airplane back to the hangar and took a look into the engine
compartment. Now I am pretty sure the cause of the fire is a loose
fuel line b-nut on the mechanical fuel pump. It is entirely my
mistake. So, my follow builders, make sure all your nuts and fittings
are tightened. You don't need to worry about the fire problem I
experienced. A few observations to follow:
a. The fuel flow down and under the tunnel. I did not know when the
fire started since it was burning underneath.
b. After the fire burnt through the tunnel floor, it sent up some
smoke smell.
c. Soon brake line and fuel line melted and the brake fluid produced a
lot of smoke.
d. After brake fluid was consumed there were little smoke.
e. Fire did burn up around the mechanical fuel pump and up around left
mag. Wire bundle attached to the engine mount on top the mag is charred.
f. Fire did not burn through the aluminum heat boxes. The sealant on
top of the heat boxes are gone but not the ones around them.
g. I used plastic bushing, RTV, then a thick coat of 3M fire barrier
sealant for firewall penetration. None of them get compromised.
h. I brought firewall insulator but have not installed yet. It would
not do anything for this particular case.
i. The insulator on the tunnel floor can not withstand the fire. Most
of them are gone with the floor.
j. Nose gear link (WD1016) folded and the rest of the nose gear are in
good shape.
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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Just a guess but the mechanical pump is right above the hot exhaust, by not that great a distance.
Thanks Ted, it's been informational! Glad you made it out fine. I had a fuel fitting that was loose too, before first start, due to last minute hose removal post-nut-check. It was on the fuel servo. Luckily I did a boost pump fuel pressure test and found the dripping before I fired it up.
Even though I used torque seal all over on bolts, I think if for no other reason, it would be worth doing it on the tunnel and fuel lines just to ensure that you mark them after they are torqued. Could help prevent this type of failure. I think I'll plan to do that next time I pull a fuel line.
Tim
On Apr 28, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Phil Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Ted,
Thanks for the report. Any idea what sparked the fuel? I'd like to figure out what the ignition source is.
Phil
On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:55 PM, Ted Chang <tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>
> I got the airplane back to the hangar and took a look into the engine compartment. Now I am pretty sure the cause of the fire is a loose fuel line b-nut on the mechanical fuel pump. It is entirely my mistake. So, my follow builders, make sure all your nuts and fittings are tightened. You don't need to worry about the fire problem I experienced. A few observations to follow:
>
> a. The fuel flow down and under the tunnel. I did not know when the fire started since it was burning underneath.
> b. After the fire burnt through the tunnel floor, it sent up some smoke smell.
> c. Soon brake line and fuel line melted and the brake fluid produced a lot of smoke.
> d. After brake fluid was consumed there were little smoke.
> e. Fire did burn up around the mechanical fuel pump and up around left mag. Wire bundle attached to the engine mount on top the mag is charred.
> f. Fire did not burn through the aluminum heat boxes. The sealant on top of the heat boxes are gone but not the ones around them.
> g. I used plastic bushing, RTV, then a thick coat of 3M fire barrier sealant for firewall penetration. None of them get compromised.
> h. I brought firewall insulator but have not installed yet. It would not do anything for this particular case.
> i. The insulator on the tunnel floor can not withstand the fire. Most of them are gone with the floor.
> j. Nose gear link (WD1016) folded and the rest of the nose gear are in good shape.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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dlm34077(at)q.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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which flight was the accident flight? how many hours into Phase I?
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tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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| Quote: | I just log on and read some of your comments. Here are answers to a few questions.
The accident flight was my sixth flight and 8th time running the engine.
I estimated that I had 1.2 min from the time I noticed the smoke to a sharp bank to land.
During that time I had to get the fire extinguisher, shut the fuel, open the door, identify the landing site and of course fly the airplane.
There was really no time to get the checklist, put on the smoke hood (I have two in my hangar that I brought for my
RV-9A first flight), and doing some other things. If you had a fuel fire the best thing is to shut the fuel valve.
I never shut the fuel valve before and in a hurry I turn the selector to in between left and right. I am not even sure it was completely shut.
But engine stopped and fire reduced. So it worked for me. Do make sure you practice shut off the fuel. When the fire begins there won't be time
to figure it out. Fire extinguisher works only when you remove the supply of fuel. Of course shut off the fuel means the fan in front is going to stop
and you must find a place to put the airplane down. My RV9A will glide a long distance without power. 10 really drop like a rock when compared with 9.
I landed without flap not because I was thinking about the spark (fire already started) problem, but I just did not have time to lower it.
It turned out good since my flaps are not damaged. There are a lot of factors that made my emergency landing a success. Most of them I have no control of.
There are many things I did not do correctly, for example, I forgot to turn off the electrical system. With the smoke and fire I was busy trying to
land the airplane and did not think about turning off switches. I was not analyzing the situation and figuring out the solution, I was just reacting
to the situation with my instinct. If I say that I have the skill to handle an emergency like this I will be lying to myself.
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: Fire and off field landing |
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"If I say that I have the skill to handle an emergency like this I will be lying to myself."
You did/do have the skill, you are alive and uninjured.
You will need to get your confidence back and get back on the horse.
Altitude is life. Unless it takes too much time to get on the ground and jump out due to being burned...then a parachute is a good thing.
Good work!!!
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:32:42 -0400
From: tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fire and off field landing
| Quote: | I just log on and read some of your comments. Here are answers to a few questions.
The accident flight was my sixth flight and 8th time running the engine.
I estimated that I had 1.2 min from the time I noticed the smoke to a sharp bank to land.
During that time I had to get the fire extinguisher, shut the fuel, open the door, identify the landing site and of course fly the airplane.
There was really no time to get the checklist, put on the smoke hood (I have two in my hangar that I brought for my
RV-9A first flight), and doing some other things. If you had a fuel fire the best thing is to shut the fuel valve.
I never shut the fuel valve before and in a hurry I turn the selector to in between left and right. I am not even sure it was completely shut.
But engine stopped and fire reduced. So it worked for me. Do make sure you practice shut off the fuel. When the fire begins there won't be time
to figure it out. Fire extinguisher works only when you remove the supply of fuel. Of course shut off the fuel means the fan in front is going to stop
and you must find a place to put the airplane down. My RV9A will glide a long distance without power. 10 really drop like a rock when compared with 9.
I landed without flap not because I was thinking about the spark (fire already started) problem, but I just did not have time to lower it.
It turned out good since my flaps are not damaged. There are a lot of factors that made my emergency landing a success. Most of them I have no control of.
There are many things I did not do correctly, for example, I forgot to turn off the electrical system. With the smoke and fire I was busy trying to
land the airplane and did not think about turning off switches. I was not analyzing the situation and figuring out the solution, I was just reacting
to the situation with my instinct. If I say that I have the skill to handle an emergency like this I will be lying to myself.
|
[quote]
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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