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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Hello.
My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph.
My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding.
Any advice appreciated.
PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
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Ernest Jessee
N4931M |
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VIXEN
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Hello Ernest
Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!!
I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start.
Take care
Don Hudgeon
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>
Hello.
My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph.
My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding.
Any advice appreciated.
PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
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hgmckay
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Don,
Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. 704-661-8271
Fax 704-483-5466
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Don Hudgeon (don(at)hudgeon.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot
Hello Ernest
Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!!
I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start.
Take care
Don Hudgeon
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "ejessee" <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)>
Hello.
My 912 UL is running very well. I recently purchased a carbmate and have the carbs balanced very close. The mag drop is ~50 or less. Cold start is smooth and quick. Oil temps run at 180 and cht at 220. Climb out RPM is 5500 at 70 mph.
My problem is hot starts. I have to use about 1/2 throttle and let the starter drag it until it is solidly running or it will die and then it's a real bear to start. Starting after "missing" on hot start result in extreme gas smell. I think it's flooding.
Any advice appreciated.
PS.. I recently put on an replaced my GSC prop with an IVO prop. This prop is lighter. It might be harder to start since this change.
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=340169#340169
===========
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire.
I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen? What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait?
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Ernest Jessee
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:58 pm Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Ernest,
Do you have the "drip trays" under your carbs?
If you do not, your problem isn't flooding, it is vapor lock. You are boiling the fuel in your carb bowls. The "drip trays" also act as heat shields to protect the carb bowls from the heat of the exhaust pipes.
You can install the Rotax items or add some sort of heat shielding between the exhaust pipes and carbs.
Search the archives for "vapor lock" or "hot start"
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop
http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232
http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046
Europa Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On May 17, 2011, at 17:46, ejessee wrote:
| Quote: |
Thank you for your reply. Wow! A fire.
I have an extinguisher... still. Any idea what causes this flooding to happen? What is the proper remedy for a flood... just wait?
--------
Ernest Jessee
N4931M
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Mr. Borger is right. After you shut down with a cowled engine the heat just sits there and cooks everything up to a little higher temp because you have no air flow going through your system and you do not have a fuel pump operating moving cooler fuel through the system. You are not flooding. You are just cooking the fuel a little more and have some vapors. When it's hot do not use the choke and let the plane run a little bit longer after a hot start to get some cooler fuel to move through the system. Some of you with a fuel pressure gauge may even see low fuel pressures. That will go away after a bit as the cooler fuel cools the vapors.
Carb drip trays do help in shielding some heat from the exhaust, but more importantly it should be set up so any leaking fuel does not drip right on top of a hot exhaust.
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Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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VIXEN
Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Hello Hugh
I did NOT when I had the fire. Since I have routed them into the air filter as per Roger Lee`s suggestion.
Don
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Hugh McKay <hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote] Don,
Do you have the excess fuel cups under your carbs?
Hugh G. McKay III, P.E.
Senior Consultant
Worldwide Engineering Inc.
4090 North NC Hwy. 16
Denver, NC 28037
Ph. [url=tel:704-661-8271]704-661-8271[/url]
Fax [url=tel:704-483-5466]704-483-5466[/url]
email hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net (hgmckay(at)bellsouth.net)
http://www.wwegeo.com
From: Don Hudgeon (don(at)hudgeon.com)
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:53 PM
To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot
Hello Ernest
Be very cautious with "added fuel" on these hot starts. A couple of months ago I had the same thing but just on one start. I thought it was maybe flooded so I gave it full throttle for a few seconds to clear the flood and the engine caught fire. Fortunately I had a halon extinguisher on the consul and put it out right away. It took a lot of effort to clean up the engine because it burned up the mag wires, manifold pressure lines,etc. Also required repair to the top cowling. Things get HOT very quickly with a gasoline fire!!
I have since routed the carb vent tubes into the air filters just in case the raw fuel may have puked out them when cranking during the start.
Take care
Don Hudgeon
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM, ejessee <eejessee(at)us.ibm.com (eejessee(at)us.ibm.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Everyone should have drip trays or some sort of fuel verses hot exhaust pipe separation.
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:57 am Post subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Ernest,
There is another possible cause of your hot start problem.
Make absolutely certain that your "choke" (starting carb) is closing completely when the choke control is closed. I.E., make sure the chokes are hitting their stops when choke is off.
I've seen this so often it is the first thing I look for with a hot start problem.
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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous |
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daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:35 am Post subject: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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Don,
I had that problem for some time and after many other efforts I reduced the plug gaps to 22 thou and the problem disappeared.
Dave Austin 601HDS 912UL
[quote][b]
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ejessee
Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:10 am Post subject: Re: 912 UL -- easily flooded when hot |
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heat shields solved my problem. Starts perfectly every time now... hot and cold.
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Ernest Jessee
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