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Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
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jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:52 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can compress the 

 lifter slightly, then it returns.


	


Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used my thumb to 

push on each tappet. 10

of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately adjacent to my 

'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,

number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8". Does this mean 

something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets, although I can't 

see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder, but what do I know :")

Thanks again for all the advice, people!



-- 

Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

Sometimes I... No, I don't.

				--- Steven Wright

aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

J.  If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the incoming charges.  Remember, it is the negative and positive pressure waves that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders.  I recently had a sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just the one affected ! 



Worth a try - change out those valve springs....

Martin



On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>

  

 On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>

 

 If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.

 

 

 	
 

 Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used my thumb to push on each tappet. 10

 of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately adjacent to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,

 number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8". Does this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets, although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder, but what do I know :")

  

 

 Thanks again for all the advice, people!

 

 -- 

 Regards,  J.

 

 - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

 - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

 - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

 

 +-------------------------------+

 | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

 | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

 | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

 | http://cleco.ca               |

 +-------------------------------+

 

 

 Sometimes I... No, I don't.

                                 --- Steven Wright

 

 

 ===========

  -

 ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   J.  If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will indeed effect 

 other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the incoming charges.  Remember, it 

 is the negative and positive pressure waves that do the work, not as you would imagine a 

 steady flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders.  I recently had a 

 sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, 

 not just the one affected !



 Worth a try - change out those valve springs....



 Martin


	


Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100 hours, and running fine 

last fall, that I would

need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a sad statement 

regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.

Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence

before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's currently running fine, 

just the #3 plugs are sooty.

And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You may be right, but at 

this point I'm not

convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now, hoping some more Jab 

experts will chime in

(Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca 

 <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:



     

     <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>>



     On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:



         

         <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>>



         If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can

         compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.



     Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used my thumb

     to push on each tappet. 10

     of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately adjacent

     to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,

     number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8". Does

     this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets,

     although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder, but what

     do I know :")

     Thanks again for all the advice, people!



     -- 

     Regards,  J.



     - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

     - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

     - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



     +-------------------------------+

     | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

     | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |

     | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

     | http://cleco.ca               |

     +-------------------------------+

     Sometimes I... No, I don't.

                                    --- Steven Wright

     ===========

     -

     ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

     ===========

     MS -

     k">http://forums.matronics.com

     ===========

     e -

              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

     t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ===========





 *

 *


	




-- 

Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It

said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."

				--- Steven Wright

aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along also.  But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably weaker must mean something.



The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in Jab world.  We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs and replace all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now using the LCH ones from Rotec.....

 



Martin



On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:

[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>

 

 On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   J.  If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it will indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of the incoming charges.  Remember, it is the negative and positive pressure waves that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders.  I recently had a sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just the one affected !

  

 Worth a try - change out those valve springs....

 

 Martin

 	
 

 Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100 hours, and running fine last fall, that I would

 need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a sad statement regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.

 Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence

 before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's currently running fine, just the #3 plugs are sooty.

 And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You may be right, but at this point I'm not

 convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now, hoping some more Jab experts will chime in

 (Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')

 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca) <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>> wrote:

  

     --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)

     <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>>

 

     On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:

 

         --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)

         <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>>

 

         If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each tappet I can

         compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.

 

 

 

     Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC and used my thumb

     to push on each tappet. 10

     of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets immediately adjacent

     to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,

     number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe even 3/8". Does

     this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the adjacent tappets,

     although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent, cylinder, but what

     do I know :")

 

 

     Thanks again for all the advice, people!

 

     --     Regards,  J.

 

     - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

     - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

     - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

 

     +-------------------------------+

     | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

     | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |

     | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

     | http://cleco.ca               |

     +-------------------------------+

 

 

     Sometimes I... No, I don't.

                                    --- Steven Wright

 

 

     ===========

     -

     ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

     ===========

     MS -

     k">http://forums.matronics.com

     ===========

     e -

              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

     t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

     ===========

 

 

 

 

 *

 

 

 *

 	
 

 

 -- 

 Regards,  J.

 

 - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

 - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

 - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

 

 +-------------------------------+

 | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

 | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

 | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

 | http://cleco.ca               |

 +-------------------------------+

 

 

 I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It

 said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."

                                 --- Steven Wright

 

 

 ===========

  -

 ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

 ===========

 MS -

 k">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 e -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

jwd3ca(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

It's not the springs that are weaker, it's the lifters that compress easier. Yeah, its running smoothly now, but if those two plugs actually foul, that'll be bad...



Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along

also.

But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably weaker

must

mean something.



The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in Jab

world.  We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs and

replace

all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now using the LCH ones

from

Rotec.....



Martin



On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:



> 

<jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>

>

> On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:

>

>> J.  If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it

will

>> indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves of

the

>> incoming charges.  Remember, it is the negative and positive

pressure waves

>> that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady flow of fuel and

air

>> coming in and out of the cylinders.  I recently had a sticking

exhaust valve

>> that directly caused this particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not

just

>> the one affected !

>>

>> Worth a try - change out those valve springs....

>>

>> Martin

>>

>

> Thanks, Martin, but I have a hard time swallowing that at just 100

hours,

> and running fine last fall, that I would

> need to change out valve springs that are not broken. That would be a

sad

> statement regarding the Jabiru engine indeed.

> Just doesn't make sense. I need some hard evidence

> before I commit to start pulling heads off. Don't forget, it's

currently

> running fine, just the #3 plugs are sooty.

> And leak-downs are fine, so no sticking valve as was your case. You

may be

> right, but at this point I'm not

> convinced... I'm leaning toward the hydraulic lifters right now,

hoping

> some more Jab experts will chime in

> (Pete, Roger, where are you when I need you ;')

>

>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 7:48 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca

<mailto:

>> jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:

>>

>>    

>> jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca

>>    <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>>

>>

>>    On 06/08/2011 05:03 PM, j. davis wrote:

>>

>>        

>> jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca

>>        <mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>>

>>

>>        If I push fairly hard on the bottom (push rod side) of each

tappet

>> I can

>>        compress the lifter slightly, then it returns.

>>

>>

>>

>>    Actually, I just revisited my tappets. I put each cylinder at TDC

and

>> used my thumb

>>    to push on each tappet. 10

>>    of the 12 depressed just slightly, maybe 1/8". The two tappets

>> immediately adjacent

>>    to my 'problem' cylinder (3), (number 1 intake,

>>    number 5 exhaust) each fairly easily depressed about 1/4", maybe

even

>> 3/8". Does

>>    this mean something bad? Seems coincidental that bthey are the

adjacent

>> tappets,

>>    although I can't see how that would affect a different, adjacent,

>> cylinder, but what

>>    do I know :")

>>

>>

>>    Thanks again for all the advice, people!

>>

>>    --     Regards,  J.

>>

>>    - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

>>    - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

>>    - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

>>

>>    +-------------------------------+

>>    | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

>>    | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca <http://lawsonimaging.ca> |

>>    | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

>>    | http://cleco.ca               |

>>    +-------------------------------+

>>

>>

>>    Sometimes I... No, I don't.

>>                                   --- Steven Wright

>>

>>

>>    ===========

>>    -

>>    ine-List" target="_blank">

>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

>>    ===========

>>    MS -

>>    k">http://forums.matronics.com

>>    ===========

>>    e -

>>             -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

>>    t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

>>    ===========

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> *

>>

>>

>> *

>>

> --

> Regards,  J.

>

> - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

> - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

> - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

>

> +-------------------------------+

> | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

> | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

> | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

> | http://cleco.ca               |

> +-------------------------------+

> I was walking down the street and saw a sign on a post. It

> said: "Lost -- $50. If found, just keep it."

>                                --- Steven Wright


	


-- 

Sent from my Android tablet using K-9 Mail. Please excuse any typos!  J.

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm seeing. Don't be alarmed 

that the others

look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.



Thanks!



-- 

Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He

said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah,

but I don't believe everything I read."

				--- Steven Wright

plugs.jpg

Description:

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Viewed:

10938 Time(s)

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

J

 Is it possible that you had a valve sticking? Maybe try an upper cylinder additive in your fuel,like Marvel .Very unlikely that a hydraulic lifter would cause a problem.Sticking valves are quite common in Continental engines.Good article in EAA Sport AV magazine this month. 

    G.

  

     

  

    

     

  

     

  

    --

aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

They don't look lean to me.  Obviously you have never raced a 2-stroke....  



Besides, you 'read' a plug by looking down the bottom of the insulator, not the firing end....

 Still a mystery

Cheers

Martin



On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:36 PM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm seeing. Don't be alarmed that the others

  look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.

 

 Thanks!

 

 -- 

 Regards,  J.

 

 - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

 - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

 - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

 

 +-------------------------------+

 | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

 | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

 | *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

 | http://cleco.ca               |

 +-------------------------------+

 

 

 One time a cop pulled me over for running a stop sign. He

 said, "Didn't you see the stop sign?" I said, "Yeah,

 but I don't believe everything I read."

                                 --- Steven Wright

 

 [b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:31 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Compared to yours, I'd need to wear sunglasses to read my plugs. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062

Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)

Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1111 hrs (since  

3-27-2006)





On Jun 8, 2011, at 10:36 PM, j. davis wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I've attached a picture of the plugs just to illustrate what I'm  

 seeing. Don't be alarmed that the others

 look too lean, I was aggressively leaned at shut-down.



 Thanks!



 -- 

 Regards,  J.



 - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

 - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Rocker arm bushings at 237 hours, along with "cross-swapping" the  

rocker shafts to introduce the previously unused bearing  

surface....nope, time doesn't mean Jack S - - t to a Jabiru. But get  

it right and it's a nice engine...that is, IF you have solid lifters.  

Sorry, but that's my opinion. Jabiru tried to fix something that  

wasn't broken, and should have put their engineering expertise into  

some other areas of the engine instead of listening to advice from  

crybabies who didn't like adjusting valves.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062

Prince prop (64 x 30, P-tip)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)

Status: flying with "Ramcharger" intake manifold...1111 hrs (since  

3-27-2006)





On Jun 8, 2011, at 7:38 PM, Martin Hone wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   J - as it is running fine, I would tend to leave well enough along  

 also.  But the fact that your adjacent valve springs are noticeably  

 weaker must mean something.



 The fact that it has only done 100 hrs is of little consequence in  

 Jab world.  We had to rebuild 2 heads at 100 hrs, again at 200 hrs  

 and replace all rocker bushes and pins at 250 hrs. So we are now  

 using the LCH ones from Rotec.....



 Martin



 On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:59 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca> wrote:

 

 <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>



 On 06/08/2011 06:04 PM, Martin Hone wrote:

 J.  If you are getting a leaky valve or possibly valve bounce, it  

 will indeed effect other cylinders by disturbing the pressure waves  

 of the incoming charges.  Remember, it is the negative and positive  

 pressure waves that do the work, not as you would imagine a steady  

 flow of fuel and air coming in and out of the cylinders.  I  

 recently had a sticking exhaust valve that directly caused this  

 particular 3300 to run on 3 cylinders, not just the one affected !



 Worth a try - change out those valve springs....



 Martin

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?


	


Hi Thom...



hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the mixture to #3?



-- 

Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let

you have the pen!

				--- Steven Wright

matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 6/9/2011 2:48 PM, j. davis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:

> 

> Riddle"<riddletr(at)gmail.com>

>

> Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?



 Hi Thom...



 hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the 

 mixture to #3?



The mixture would lean if there's a leak in the intake runner which 
	


would add air to the mixture. If it is blocked, the cylinder would get 

the right mixture, but perhaps insufficient to ignite?

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:38 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/09/2011 09:26 AM, Rob Turk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On 6/9/2011 2:48 PM, j. davis wrote:

> 

>

> On 06/09/2011 06:57 AM, Thom Riddle wrote:

>> 

>>

>> Any chance you have an air flow blockage in the #3 cylinder intake tube?

>

> Hi Thom...

>

> hmmm, not sure how that would happen, but wouldn't that *lean* the mixture to #3?

>

 The mixture would lean if there's a leak in the intake runner which would add air to the 

 mixture. If it is blocked, the cylinder would get the right mixture, but perhaps 

 insufficient to ignite?

So the suggestion is to remove the intake tube to check for blockage? I'm trying to 

imagine a scenario that would result

in a blocked intake tube... what could the blockage consist of? What might I find inside 

there?

 	  Quote: 	

-- 

Regards,  J.

- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

A friend of mine is into Voodoo Acupuncture.  You don't

have to go.  You'll just be walking down the street,

and...........ooooohhhhhh, that's much better...

				--- Steven Wright

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Hi J.

   I thought your response, quoted below, to an earlier question was interesting.  How did you set the gaps on both coils ?  I found more accuracy in setting the gaps on both coils by using two pieces (approx 1"x3") of brass shim stock .010", the minimum setting. First clean the rust or other corrosion off coils and magnets. Once the brass shims are in place, coil mounting bolts can be loosened to allow coils to have full contact with the curved magnets, a shim sandwich so to speak. This assures the curvature of the coils and magnets are uniform to each other along with keeping the proper gap. Lock the coil mounting bolts. You will find it hard to pull your shims out. Rotate the engine to satisfy yourself that there is no interference. Store the shims in the tool box.

  Lastly, IF you removed the coils, did you make sure the coil insulating washers were in place? I would hate to think that the coils just got hot to a point of weakness such that the first cylinder to miss fire was number 3. Sometimes a weak ignition will show up on one cylinder (hardest to fire) first before the others. I have read in other posts where gaps were cleaned and reset to solve ignition issues when the owner thought they were ok. Some of your other plugs seem a bit dirty, like weak ignition to me.  Sorry for the dissertation on gap setting but if it helps you or anyone, great....Don B 



""Yeah, forgot to state it explicitely, but of course I set the air gaps when I re-installed 

the spider.Also 

magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact""

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/09/2011 12:09 PM, dons701 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi J.

     I thought your response, quoted below, to an earlier question was interesting.  How did you set the gaps on both coils ?  I found more accuracy in setting the gaps on both coils by using two pieces (approx 1"x3") of brass shim stock .010", the minimum setting. First clean the rust or other corrosion off coils and magnets. Once the brass shims are in place, coil mounting bolts can be loosened to allow coils to have full contact with the curved magnets, a shim sandwich so to speak. This assures the curvature of the coils and magnets are uniform to each other along with keeping the proper gap. Lock the coil mounting bolts. You will find it hard to pull your shims out. Rotate the engine to satisfy yourself that there is no interference. Store the shims in the tool box.

Exactly how I do it, except I use business card strips (after verifying that they are 
	


indeed .010).  One day I'll pick up some brass shim stock,

but the card stock works well...

 	  Quote: 	
		      Lastly, IF you removed the coils, did you make sure the coil insulating washers were in place?

Didn't remove the coils, but did do a resistance check on their primaries and secondaries, 
	


and they were all in range.

 	  Quote: 	
		     I would hate to think that the coils just got hot to a point of weakness such that the first cylinder to miss fire was number 3. Sometimes a weak ignition will show up on one cylinder (hardest to fire) first before the others.


	


Good point...



 	  Quote: 	
		     I have read in other posts where gaps were cleaned and reset to solve ignition issues when the owner thought they were ok. Some of your other plugs seem a bit dirty, like weak ignition to me.  Sorry for the dissertation on gap setting but if it helps you or anyone, great....Don B


	


Plugs are new (and gapped) with about an hour on them so far...



Which part of my response did you find interesting, exactly?



Thanks, Don.



 	  Quote: 	
		   ""Yeah, forgot to state it explicitely, but of course I set the air gaps when I re-installed

 the spider.Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact""



-- 
	


Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



+-------------------------------+

| J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)    |

| email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca |

| *NIX consulting, SysAdmin     |

| http://cleco.ca               |

+-------------------------------+

All of the people in my building are insane. The guy above

me designs synthetic hairballs for ceramic cats. The lady

across the hall tried to rob a department store... With

a pricing gun... She said, "Give me all of the money in

the vault, or I'm marking down everything in the store."

				--- Steven Wright

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Hi J

  To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils hot? Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are, new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied by the ignition. You could buy a pair of NGK Iridium Plugs which require less juice to fire and install them in the #3 cyl for experimentation.  They worked for me at .025" gap no antisieze on threads per NGK.



.""Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact"" 

 What i thought was interesting... 

  Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above. Thought the plugs looked dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in the future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don B

_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop

jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:54 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

On 06/09/2011 02:30 PM, dons701 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi J

    To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils hot?


	


Cold. The Jab maintenance manual doesn't specify a temperature at which to test, so I'm 

assuming they mean cold.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are, new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied by the ignition.


	


Check.



 	  Quote: 	
		   .Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact



    What i thought was interesting...

    Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above and thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in the future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don B




	


No, not personally, but I've read of coils destroyed by contact, don't know how/why that 

happened, but I like to just be able to give a quick

glance to ensure that my black magic marker is intact and unscathed ;') Just for the 

comfort factor...



As an aside, I discovered that my 'soft' lifters just needed filling. Spun the engine with 

no plugs, watched oil pressure climb. After that, they were just like the others. One more 

possibility ticked off as not the cause. There must be a definitive and scientific reason 

for these two sooty plugs,

still hunting ;'(



-- 

Regards,  J.



- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca



-----------------------------

J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)

email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca

*NIX consulting, SysAdmin

http://cleco.ca

My aunt gave me a walkie-talkie for my birthday.  She says

if I'm good, she'll give me the other one next year.

				--- Steven Wright

aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

J - given that your two plugs are sooty rather than wet, I would hazard a guess that the mixture is too rich rather than the plugs not firing.  Have you tried twisting the carb a few degrees off centre ?



 Martin



On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:49 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:

[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>

 

 On 06/09/2011 02:30 PM, dons701 wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   -->  JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dons701"<burdon1(at)comcast.net (burdon1(at)comcast.net)>

 

 Hi J

    To respond in order, when you checked the coil resistances were the coils hot?

 	
 

 Cold. The Jab maintenance manual doesn't specify a temperature at which to test, so I'm assuming they mean cold.

  	  Quote: 	
		   Resistance goes up with temp. increase....Plug color or how dirty they are, new or otherwise is a function of mixture and the completeness of combustion supplied by the ignition.

 	
 

 Check.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   .Also magic markered the magnets to witness any potential future contact

 

    What i thought was interesting...

    Just wondering if you had seen evidence of contact before as quoted above and thought the plugs were dirty indicating a possible over all ignition problem thats all. Everyone knows that your problem could become their problem in the future, hope the solution can be found and reported here, keep trying.....Don B

  

 	
 

 No, not personally, but I've read of coils destroyed by contact, don't know how/why that happened, but I like to just be able to give a quick

 glance to ensure that my black magic marker is intact and unscathed ;') Just for the comfort factor...

 

 As an aside, I discovered that my 'soft' lifters just needed filling. Spun the engine with no plugs, watched oil pressure climb. After that, they were just like the others. One more possibility ticked off as not the cause. There must be a definitive and scientific reason for these two sooty plugs,

  still hunting ;'(

 

 -- 

 Regards,  J.

 

 - Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb

 - former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress

 - see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca

 

 -----------------------------

 J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)

 email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca

 *NIX consulting, SysAdmin

 http://cleco.ca

 

 

 My aunt gave me a walkie-talkie for my birthday.  She says

 if I'm good, she'll give me the other one next year.

                                 --- Steven Wright

 

 

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vvkidd(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.

Not sure that this could be your problem but I had a similar problem with a C172.



Found that the hose coupling between the two halves of the intake manifold had slipped and was admitting air into the manifold thus changing the mixture. 



Victor Kidd

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