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kevino

Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:22 am Post subject: Main gear fire

Yesterday flew to Bangor Maine. Has a very long taxi for rw 15 from ga ramp. Near end lost left brake. Ac did several loops getting it stopped. Called ground who is over a mile away and told him I lost brake and he advised I was on fire. Evacuated all four people and grabbed fire ext. Fire was in full force with flames close to reaching wing. Used ext 2.5 halon and snuffed flame. Restarted in about 15 sec. Did it again. Looked up and crash was on their way. They were there in two minutes from ground telling me was on fire. Never knew I had fire until they told me. The fire ext and outstanding crash rescue saved the day. Lost the tire, wheel pant, brakes. Maine aero jumped on the airplane when I finally worked thru the red tape and got it towed in. Replaced tire, rebuilt brakes, pulled wheel pants and flew home last nite. An outstanding response from the crash crew, airport crew and Maine aero, ray lane and his whole crew. 

Cause was probably brake slightly dragging and needing to keep hitting left brake for directional control while taxiing several miles. 

Thought you all might be interested. The lack of awareness that a fire had started was frightening.without ground telling me I would not have got it in time not to mention an air force crash crew that was outstanding.

Anybody have a spare left wheel pant?

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: Main gear fire

Sorry to hear about the fire and associated headaches.  Can you say which brake fluid you used....the high temp stuff or the standard stuff?  That would be good info.

Tim



On Jul 9, 2011, at 7:22 AM, "kevino" <kevino(at)worldwarehouse.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Yesterday flew to Bangor Maine. Has a very long taxi for rw 15 from ga ramp. Near end lost left brake. Ac did several loops getting it stopped. Called ground who is over a mile away and told him I lost brake and he advised I was on fire. Evacuated all four people and grabbed fire ext. Fire was in full force with flames close to reaching wing. Used ext 2.5 halon and snuffed flame. Restarted in about 15 sec. Did it again. Looked up and crash was on their way. They were there in two minutes from ground telling me was on fire. Never knew I had fire until they told me. The fire ext and outstanding crash rescue saved the day. Lost the tire, wheel pant, brakes. Maine aero jumped on the airplane when I finally worked thru the red tape and got it towed in. Replaced tire, rebuilt brakes, pulled wheel pants and flew home last nite. An outstanding response from the crash crew, airport crew and Maine aero, ray lane and his whole crew. 

 Cause was probably brake slightly dragging and needing to keep hitting left brake for directional control while taxiing several miles. 

 Thought you all might be interested. The lack of awareness that a fire had started was frightening.without ground telling me I would not have got it in time not to mention an air force crash crew that was outstanding.

 Anybody have a spare left wheel pant?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345552#345552

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:32 am Post subject: Main gear fire

That would be Mil 83282 brake fluid as opposed to Mil 5606.

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Sorry to hear about the fire and associated headaches.  Can you say which brake fluid you used....the high temp stuff or the standard stuff?  That would be good info.

 Tim

 On Jul 9, 2011, at 7:22 AM, "kevino" <kevino(at)worldwarehouse.com> wrote:

> 

>

> Yesterday flew to Bangor Maine. Has a very long taxi for rw 15 from ga ramp. Near end lost left brake. Ac did several loops getting it stopped. Called ground who is over a mile away and told him I lost brake and he advised I was on fire. Evacuated all four people and grabbed fire ext. Fire was in full force with flames close to reaching wing. Used ext 2.5 halon and snuffed flame.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

kevino

Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Main gear fire

5606. Hadn't thought about that

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: Main gear fire

What kind of brake line did you have attached to the wheel cylinder???

I'm guessing that the fire was due to a brake fluid leak ..... how did 

it escape???

Linn

On 7/9/2011 8:22 AM, kevino wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Yesterday flew to Bangor Maine. Has a very long taxi for rw 15 from ga ramp. Near end lost left brake. Ac did several loops getting it stopped. Called ground who is over a mile away and told him I lost brake and he advised I was on fire. Evacuated all four people and grabbed fire ext. Fire was in full force with flames close to reaching wing. Used ext 2.5 halon and snuffed flame. Restarted in about 15 sec. Did it again. Looked up and crash was on their way. They were there in two minutes from ground telling me was on fire. Never knew I had fire until they told me. The fire ext and outstanding crash rescue saved the day. Lost the tire, wheel pant, brakes. Maine aero jumped on the airplane when I finally worked thru the red tape and got it towed in. Replaced tire, rebuilt brakes, pulled wheel pants and flew home last nite. An outstanding response from the crash crew, airport crew and Maine aero, ray lane and his whole crew.

 Cause was probably brake slightly dragging and needing to keep hitting left brake for directional control while taxiing several miles.

 Thought you all might be interested. The lack of awareness that a fire had started was frightening.without ground telling me I would not have got it in time not to mention an air force crash crew that was outstanding.

 Anybody have a spare left wheel pant?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345552#345552

kevino

Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 13
Location: United States

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Main gear fire

Aluminum lines. No evidence of leaking prior to fire.

coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:58 am Post subject: Main gear fire

Very well handled by all and I'm glad things didn't get any worse than they did.  This is by no means a dig and may not apply to your situation, but food for thought for all based on some experiences I've seen regarding using the brakes.  I've seen a lot of folks ride the brakes lightly during long taxis to avoid getting fast.  Having flown little airplanes with great big engines and small wheels/brakes I was taught long ago to let the airplane roll, then apply moderate braking periodically to keep the speed under control.  Brakes will heat up a lot more when a little pressure is applied over a long time than periodic more aggressive braking.  We used to have an academic slide show that showed two guys sitting in two kettles of water, one that had a big, rapid fire that while unpleasant flashed over quickly with no big deal, while the other simmered over a low continuous fire until it boiled.  Probably an odd analogy but pretty good overall.  I saw an Airbus captain taxiing behind a very slow airplane do the same thing just a few days ago and we had to delay takeoff because of brakes temps.  In short, let the airplane get going without brakes as fast as you are comfortable then hit the brakes and slow to a crawl, release the brakes and start over again and your brakes will be much happier and will also be there for you when you need them.



Marcus

40286

On Jul 9, 2011, at 8:22 AM, kevino wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Yesterday flew to Bangor Maine. Has a very long taxi for rw 15 from ga ramp. Near end lost left brake. Ac did several loops getting it stopped. Called ground who is over a mile away and told him I lost brake and he advised I was on fire. Evacuated all four people and grabbed fire ext. Fire was in full force with flames close to reaching wing. Used ext 2.5 halon and snuffed flame. Restarted in about 15 sec. Did it again. Looked up and crash was on their way. They were there in two minutes from ground telling me was on fire. Never knew I had fire until they told me. The fire ext and outstanding crash rescue saved the day. Lost the tire, wheel pant, brakes. Maine aero jumped on the airplane when I finally worked thru the red tape and got it towed in. Replaced tire, rebuilt brakes, pulled wheel pants and flew home last nite. An outstanding response from the crash crew, airport crew and Maine aero, ray lane and his whole crew. 

 Cause was probably brake slightly dragging and needing to keep hitting left brake for directional control while taxiing several miles. 

 Thought you all might be interested. The lack of awareness that a fire had started was frightening.without ground telling me I would not have got it in time not to mention an air force crash crew that was outstanding.

 Anybody have a spare left wheel pant?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345552#345552

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: Main gear fire

Great information.  The mass of our rotors absorbs converted energy in

the form of heat created through friction from the pad contact.

Sustained "deep" heat is worse than momentary higher concentrated heat.

Energy transfer is nearly the same.  Vented, drilled rotors and cooling

ductwork can help.  More mass, more pad contact area, use of less

flammable brake fluid H-83282 versus H-5606 can only help.  On Recips,

lower rpm often also can lead to clinkers forming on the lower plugs.

It is all about appropriate tradeoffs.



John



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: Main gear fire

I'm FAR from an expert on the stuff, as you can tell by

how Kelly remembers the milspec numbers by heart and I

can't even do that....but here is what Wiki says:

Mil-H-5606: Mineral base, flammable, fairly low flashpoint, usable from 

-65 °F (-54 °C) to 275 °F (135 °C), red color

Mil-H-83282: Synthetic hydrocarbon base, higher flashpoint, 

self-extinguishing, backward compatible to -5606, red color, rated to 

-40 °F (-40 °C) degrees.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fluid

Given that, it's pretty easy to see how brakes can heat up to over

275F on a long taxi.  So with our castering nosewheel planes that

kind of invite the bad habit of riding brakes, I think it's

kind of a good idea to just switch it out.  It's about $9

for plenty to do the whole plane and have a lot of spare.

I can't find the flash point on the 83282 stuff, but, this

link says it's over 200F HIGHER than the 5606.



http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm



So that would be my first move now.  I should add that to my

page of things to definitely change or do.  I think maybe we

as a group should try to keep this info out there so that

nobody uses 5606 at all....none of the fleet.  A good friend

of mine with an RV-10 had a wheel fire as well.  Wrecked the

tire and causes a bit of other damage.  Just a no good situation.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



On 7/9/2011 10:45 AM, kevino wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 5606. Hadn't thought about that

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

Brake fires are caused by a failure of the system to contain the brake 

fluid.  We know that cracking of the hard aluminum will allow fluid to 

escape.  We also know that when brake pads are allowed to wear way down, 

the brake puck can extend out far enough so that fluid can escape around 

the O-ring.  So far, we haven't heard how the fluid escaped or if 

"kevino" really knows.  Years ago when the 'plastic' aircraft were all 

the rage, the failure was caused by the heat melting the plastic brake 

lines.  Not so, in this case.

So I started to search for some numbers.  I found a document here:  

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL+SPECS+%28MIL-H%29/MIL-H-83282C_6037/

which lists minimum flash point at 205 C (405 F) and minimum fire point 

at 245 C (473 F).  Auto ignition is 345 C (653 F).  Minimum pour point 

-55 C (-67 F).

For 5606   minimum flash point at 82 C (180 F)          (minimum fire 

point is missing).           (Auto ignition is missing).          

Minimum pour point -60 C (-76 F).

Different numbers from Tim's but still significantly different than 5606.

So Tim's suggestion to go to 83282 is a good one.

The 5606 spec was written in 1986 and 83282 in 1994.

Linn

On 7/9/2011 2:50 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I'm FAR from an expert on the stuff, as you can tell by

 how Kelly remembers the milspec numbers by heart and I

 can't even do that....but here is what Wiki says:

 Mil-H-5606: Mineral base, flammable, fairly low flashpoint, usable 

 from -65 °F (-54 °C) to 275 °F (135 °C), red color

 Mil-H-83282: Synthetic hydrocarbon base, higher flashpoint, 

 self-extinguishing, backward compatible to -5606, red color, rated to 

 -40 °F (-40 °C) degrees.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fluid

 Given that, it's pretty easy to see how brakes can heat up to over

 275F on a long taxi.  So with our castering nosewheel planes that

 kind of invite the bad habit of riding brakes, I think it's

 kind of a good idea to just switch it out.  It's about $9

 for plenty to do the whole plane and have a lot of spare.

 I can't find the flash point on the 83282 stuff, but, this

 link says it's over 200F HIGHER than the 5606.

 http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm

 So that would be my first move now.  I should add that to my

 page of things to definitely change or do.  I think maybe we

 as a group should try to keep this info out there so that

 nobody uses 5606 at all....none of the fleet.  A good friend

 of mine with an RV-10 had a wheel fire as well.  Wrecked the

 tire and causes a bit of other damage.  Just a no good situation.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 On 7/9/2011 10:45 AM, kevino wrote:

> 

>

> 5606. Hadn't thought about that

>

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:07 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

On 7/9/2011 2:50 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I can't find the flash point on the 83282 stuff, but, this

 link says it's over 200F HIGHER than the 5606.


	


Skygeek has some specs on it:



http://www.skygeek.com/royco-782-synthetic-fire-resistant-hydraulic-fluid.html



then click the "Specifications" tab.



Flash point 218C, 424F

Fire point 251C, 483F



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

When swapping over to the high temp fluid I recall one has to replace all

the seals is in the system. Is this correct? How much effort is involved

in that change?



Robin



--

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

For what it's worth, here is what I have been using in my bird since day one.

Valvoline DEX/MERC automatic transmission fluid VV324, flash point 202° C / 395° F

grumpyN184JM

     On Jul 9, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>



I'm FAR from an expert on the stuff, as you can tell by

how Kelly remembers the milspec numbers by heart and I

can't even do that....but here is what Wiki says:

Mil-H-5606: Mineral base, flammable, fairly low flashpoint, usable from -65 °F (-54 °C) to 275 °F (135 °C), red color

Mil-H-83282: Synthetic hydrocarbon base, higher flashpoint, self-extinguishing, backward compatible to -5606, red color, rated to -40 °F (-40 °C) degrees.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fluid

Given that, it's pretty easy to see how brakes can heat up to over

275F on a long taxi.  So with our castering nosewheel planes that

kind of invite the bad habit of riding brakes, I think it's

kind of a good idea to just switch it out.  It's about $9

for plenty to do the whole plane and have a lot of spare.

I can't find the flash point on the 83282 stuff, but, this

link says it's over 200F HIGHER than the 5606.



http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm



So that would be my first move now.  I should add that to my

page of things to definitely change or do.  I think maybe we

as a group should try to keep this info out there so that

nobody uses 5606 at all....none of the fleet.  A good friend

of mine with an RV-10 had a wheel fire as well.  Wrecked the

tire and causes a bit of other damage.  Just a no good situation.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



On 7/9/2011 10:45 AM, kevino wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  -->  RV10-List message posted by: "kevino"<kevino(at)worldwarehouse.com>



5606. Hadn't thought about that

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

What is the difference in viscosity of ATF vs mil spec brake fluid? I'm 

fairly certain that mil spec brake fluid has some requirements on 

viscosity at various temps and other characteristics that make it more 

desirable for brake applications. If you need to top up the resevoir at 

an airport, you are pretty sure to find 5606, not so much the ATF or 

83282. You know that 5606 and 83282 are proven to be compatible, even if 

you lower the flash point some. ATF saves you maybe $5 over the high 

price 83282?

On 7/9/2011 1:29 PM, Miller John wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   For what it's worth, here is what I have been using in my bird since 

 day one.



 Valvoline DEX/MERC automatic transmission fluid VV324,flash point 

 202°C / 395°F



 grumpy



 N184JM



 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

No seal replacement required. Remember 83282 is 100% compatible with 

5606. If you want a slightly more durable seal you can go from MS seals 

to Viton. Don't know any reason to, other than it probably resists high 

temp better while is less flexible at low temps. If your mission is 

between ElK Mound and International Falls year round you probably want 

the standard 5606 and MS seals.

The calipers are no more than popping the brake cylinder out of the 

caliper and changing the O-rings. At the master cylinders, you get to 

rebuild them...but they aren't ever going to see the temps the calipers do.

All depends on how much effort you want to do, and what your normal 

mission profile is. Those that get OHare and Hartsfield taxi routes 

probably want the higher temps, like those of us on the southern fringe 

of the country.

Do you want to go into procurement mode, get the fluid, get Viton 

O-rings after figuring out exact size needed, and so on, just like the 

rest of the build process? The mechanical work on the calipers is 

child's play. Draining your system should get you 90 percent of benefit, 

vs flushing system and then adding 83282. You get the fun of bleeding 

the system either way.

On 7/9/2011 1:23 PM, Robin Marks wrote:

[quote] 



 When swapping over to the high temp fluid I recall one has to replace all

 the seals is in the system. Is this correct? How much effort is involved

 in that change?



 Robin



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

kdbelue(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

Another leak point is the piston seals - they leak when they get too hot. I had the same problem with brakes that got too hot while taxiing a long way with a cross wind. The brakes got very hot and leaked which smoked a lot, but no fire because I used the 83282 fluid. The original seals were bad due to the heat so I replaced them with viton seals which can stand a higher temperature. I would have had a fire if I had used the 5606 fluid.....

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 9, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Brake fires are caused by a failure of the system to contain the brake fluid.  We know that cracking of the hard aluminum will allow fluid to escape.  We also know that when brake pads are allowed to wear way down, the brake puck can extend out far enough so that fluid can escape around the O-ring.  So far, we haven't heard how the fluid escaped or if "kevino" really knows.  Years ago when the 'plastic' aircraft were all the rage, the failure was caused by the heat melting the plastic brake lines.  Not so, in this case.

 So I started to search for some numbers.  I found a document here:  http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL+SPECS+%28MIL-H%29/MIL-H-83282C_6037/

 which lists minimum flash point at 205 C (405 F) and minimum fire point at 245 C (473 F).  Auto ignition is 345 C (653 F).  Minimum pour point -55 C (-67 F).

 For 5606   minimum flash point at 82 C (180 F)          (minimum fire point is missing).           (Auto ignition is missing).          Minimum pour point -60 C (-76 F).

 Different numbers from Tim's but still significantly different than 5606.

 So Tim's suggestion to go to 83282 is a good one.

 The 5606 spec was written in 1986 and 83282 in 1994.

 Linn

 On 7/9/2011 2:50 PM, Tim Olson wrote:

> 

> 

> I'm FAR from an expert on the stuff, as you can tell by

> how Kelly remembers the milspec numbers by heart and I

> can't even do that....but here is what Wiki says:

> 

> 

> Mil-H-5606: Mineral base, flammable, fairly low flashpoint, usable from -65 Â°F (-54 Â°C) to 275 Â°F (135 Â°C), red color

> 

> 

> Mil-H-83282: Synthetic hydrocarbon base, higher flashpoint, self-extinguishing, backward compatible to -5606, red color, rated to -40 Â°F (-40 Â°C) degrees.

> 

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fluid

> 

> 

> Given that, it's pretty easy to see how brakes can heat up to over

> 275F on a long taxi.  So with our castering nosewheel planes that

> kind of invite the bad habit of riding brakes, I think it's

> kind of a good idea to just switch it out.  It's about $9

> for plenty to do the whole plane and have a lot of spare.

> I can't find the flash point on the 83282 stuff, but, this

> link says it's over 200F HIGHER than the 5606.

> 

> http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14018/css/14018_178.htm

> 

> So that would be my first move now.  I should add that to my

> page of things to definitely change or do.  I think maybe we

> as a group should try to keep this info out there so that

> nobody uses 5606 at all....none of the fleet.  A good friend

> of mine with an RV-10 had a wheel fire as well.  Wrecked the

> tire and causes a bit of other damage.  Just a no good situation.

> 

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

> 

> 

> 

> On 7/9/2011 10:45 AM, kevino wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 5606. Hadn't thought about that

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

I didn't change my seals in the whole system.  I DID go to viton seals in the caliper itself though.  They're cheap.

Tim



On Jul 9, 2011, at 3:23 PM, Robin Marks <robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 When swapping over to the high temp fluid I recall one has to replace all

 the seals is in the system. Is this correct? How much effort is involved

 in that change?

 

 Robin

 

 --

gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

And bleed from the bottom up!!!

Far easier and a whole lot cleaner way to do it.

Just get a qt pump-type oil can with flex tip on it, get some plastic tubing that fits over the bleed valve, put an overflow tube from the reservoir with a can to collect it, and pump away.

Can't believe it took me so long to figure that one out........-

grumpy

N184JM

On Jul 9, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

[quote] 

 No seal replacement required. Remember 83282 is 100% compatible with 5606. If you want a slightly more durable seal you can go from MS seals to Viton. Don't know any reason to, other than it probably resists high temp better while is less flexible at low temps. If your mission is between ElK Mound and International Falls year round you probably want the standard 5606 and MS seals.

 The calipers are no more than popping the brake cylinder out of the caliper and changing the O-rings. At the master cylinders, you get to rebuild them...but they aren't ever going to see the temps the calipers do.

 All depends on how much effort you want to do, and what your normal mission profile is. Those that get OHare and Hartsfield taxi routes probably want the higher temps, like those of us on the southern fringe of the country.

 Do you want to go into procurement mode, get the fluid, get Viton O-rings after figuring out exact size needed, and so on, just like the rest of the build process? The mechanical work on the calipers is child's play. Draining your system should get you 90 percent of benefit, vs flushing system and then adding 83282. You get the fun of bleeding the system either way.

 On 7/9/2011 1:23 PM, Robin Marks wrote:

> 

> 

> When swapping over to the high temp fluid I recall one has to replace all

> the seals is in the system. Is this correct? How much effort is involved

> in that change?

> 

> Robin

> 

> --

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

Robin



No seal changes are required to go to 83232 fluid.  In 1985 when I was a

crew chief in the air force on the c-5 we flushed and changed out all planes

to 83232 hyd fluid with out any seals changed. 



They can even be mixed together if in a tight spot but I would not recommend

it.



I will be swapping out our Saratoga in the next oil change before we put the

wheel [ants back on after the annual. 

John Cumins

President

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax



--

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: Main gear fire

I've had mixed results with the pump-can bleeder but we still use one

in the field.  I think the problem is that without sufficient flow,

you can still trap bubbles at the top of an arced tube.  The fluid

just flows under the bubble.



For the shop, we built a brake bleeder out of a power steering pump.

We turn it with a drill motor.  Added a return like John said, a

reservoir and a little plumbing.  It works like a champ at about 20-30

psi.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell



On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM, Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 And bleed from the bottom up!!!



 Far easier and a whole lot cleaner way to do it.



 Just get a qt pump-type oil can with flex tip on it, get some plastic tubing that fits over the bleed valve, put an overflow tube from the reservoir with a can to collect it, and pump away.



 Can't believe it took me so long to figure that one out........-



 grumpy

 N184JM

 On Jul 9, 2011, at 3:50 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:



> 

>

> No seal replacement required. Remember 83282 is 100% compatible with 5606. If you want a slightly more durable seal you can go from MS seals to Viton. Don't know any reason to, other than it probably resists high temp better while is less flexible at low temps. If your mission is between ElK Mound and International Falls year round you probably want the standard 5606 and MS seals.

> The calipers are no more than popping the brake cylinder out of the caliper and changing the O-rings. At the master cylinders, you get to rebuild them...but they aren't ever going to see the temps the calipers do.

> All depends on how much effort you want to do, and what your normal mission profile is. Those that get OHare and Hartsfield taxi routes probably want the higher temps, like those of us on the southern fringe of the country.

> Do you want to go into procurement mode, get the fluid, get Viton O-rings after figuring out exact size needed, and so on, just like the rest of the build process? The mechanical work on the calipers is child's play. Draining your system should get you 90 percent of benefit, vs flushing system and then adding 83282. You get the fun of bleeding the system either way.

> On 7/9/2011 1:23 PM, Robin Marks wrote:

>> 

>>

>> When swapping over to the high temp fluid I recall one has to replace all

>> the seals is in the system. Is this correct? How much effort is involved

>> in that change?

>>

>> Robin

>>

>> --

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