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N306PB

Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 2

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: Engine Referral

As Oshkosh approaches I am sure there are some out there looking for an engine. Should you be tempted by the New Firewall Forward out of Colorado contact me privately for a referral. In a nutshell, dealing with them has been the most frustrating, disappointing, and infuriating experience of my entire RV-10 build.

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: Engine Referral

America's in Oklahoma, on the other hand, has been first rate.

--

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: Engine Referral

I'm about to the point of ordering engine and prop and was curious as to most I hear not ordering from Vans.  Is it price or service or something else?



Sean #40303



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:36 PM, "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 America's in Oklahoma, on the other hand, has been first rate.

 

 

 --

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: Engine Referral

I did a lot of research while I was at OSH last year.  If I wanted a stock

engine new I would go Vans route.  Since I want  the most for my bucks, like

balancing to less then a gram, port and flow matching approx  30-40 hp for

free, and light weight started, and Air Performance Fuel Injection I would

go with a Lycombing Thunder custom built engine.  For approx. $1000-2000

difference in price from Vans, I get a lot more and it is totally brand new

with full factory warranty.



I looked at all vendors and build a spreadsheet and dollar to quality and

performance and being 100% new Thunder is hard to Beat.

John Cumins

40864 Wings



--

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: Engine Referral

It could be options. I purchased the new certified IO540 from Vans in 2004 

and it was drop shipped from Lycoming to my house. It remained in the crate 

until install in 2007; I purchased the hartzell blended airfoil in 2007. No 

problems with Vans, but if I wanted electronic ignition, it was not possible 

because I had a certified engine.

---

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: Engine Referral

Many do order form Vans but you are getting a Vanilla set up. With specialized engine builders you get what you want including custom color, chrome, Cold Induction etc... You can specify ignition style, preferred starter and alternator that sort of thing. Often the $ differences are minimal but these options can add up.  I am a fan of BPE as they have treated me and others I know exceptionally well and build a heck of an engine with their decades of experience. These days there are not that many really bad builders because word gets around quickly. No reason to use an unknown builder as the savings can't be that significant. 

 The prop is another story. You have to decide what you want to be swinging. If it's the Hartzell BA prop then the Vans one time discounted price with your kit purchase is probably the best deal. I'm not sure about other prop pricing offered by Vans. I personally think the BA prop is by far the best value/performance for the $. 

Robin

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com (sean(at)stephensville.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean(at)stephensville.com (sean(at)stephensville.com)>

 I'm about to the point of ordering engine and prop and was curious as to most I hear not ordering from Vans.  Is it price or service or something else?

 Sean #40303

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 12, 2011, at 1:36 PM, "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>

 >

 > America's in Oklahoma, on the other hand, has been first rate.

 >

 >

 > --

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

I will tell you that I went the way I did because I researched narrow deck 

versus wide deck and was told that narrow was a better core due to cracking. 

So, by default new and Vans were removed from my options. I also have the 

Eci cylinders, I was concerned with the issues they were having but was 

assured that it was not an issue I would need to worry about. I hear I get 

about another 2hp per cylinder going this way, I donâ€™t care about the power 

just cost and reliability over the long run.

See what Vans offers for OSH, they usually have a great package when you buy 

both prop and engine, $1000 off I believe.

I bought the prop from Vans BTW.

Pascal

--

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow 

deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the 

Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow 

special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but for 

someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental when 

the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With 

that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans 

certified. BUT it is experimental.

I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well for 

such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to mention 

that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little more 

than you were able to get it for.

If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only 

being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about 

the same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla 

IO540.

--

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

The thunderbolt is not a certified engine it comes from there custom shop

non certified.  It was basically the sam3e price as BPE and the Company from

Canada.  I want all new parts and BPI cannot due a new 10540 only rebuilds

since Lycoming will not see the new engines as a kit any more.  



Yes all company's were offering a OSH discount so when one is ready to order

OSH is the place to buy that's for sure.



 



John Cumins





--

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Also when one purchases a core for 6-8k then rebuilds it, which I can do my self since I am a a&p, and have done a few.  The cost difference used ver new is not that much difference. And I am putting all new equipment in my -10 so going used on the engine did not get past the auditor (wife).  She was firm about going all new.  And I have to agree,

 

John Cumins

40864 Wings

 

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillip Perry

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:21 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Engine Referral

 

I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.   Nothing in the range of 5-6K.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>



I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans certified. BUT it is experimental.

I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little more than you were able to get it for.

If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla IO540.

--

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Must be me than.. but I just looked and the difference is as follows:

 Thunderbolt website- 

                

Base Price: [b]YIO-540-D4A5        [/b]                                                 

Fuel System:                        

Injected                                 

Aerobatic Kit:                        

No                                 

Horsepower:                        

260                                 

Displacement (Cubic              Inches):                        

540                                 

Stock Compression              Ratio:                        

8.5:1                                 

Cylinder Type:                        

Parallel              Valve            

$49,500.00   

 Vans  Website:

 Experimental IO-540 260HP  (RV-10 only)

Part Number = EA XIO-540-D4A5  RT

Price = $42300.00 

  

IO-540 260HP (RV-10  only)

Part Number = EA IO-540-D4A5  RT

Price = $46050.00    

  

  

 This looks about the  same as it was when I was researching the engines.

 I can only imagine that  if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less than?

  

  

  

  From: Phillip Perry (philperry9(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:21 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Engine Referral



  



 I'm  seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.   Nothing in the range of 5-6K.



 On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>  wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>



I wonder how you did so    well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow deals, it was like $3000 more    for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I    researched this option. if I throw in the airshow special of $1000 off package    that gets up there even more.

For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt    engines is the way to go, but for someone like me that couldn't care if it's    certified or experimental when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000    more was not an option. With that said I have most of this in my engine for    far less than a Vans certified. BUT it is experimental.

I support the    decision you made, and I would have considered it as well for such a small    amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to mention that they may    be surprised to see the price difference being a little more than you were    able to get it for.

If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM    prices, hence only being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the    price was about the same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a    simple vanilla IO540.

--

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

As an expatriate living/working outside the USA for 16 years, I would 

caution anyone doing business outside their country boundaries. If you want 

history just check the problems getting Crossflow firewall forward engines 

in the USA after they have been paid to the company in Canada. Legal action 

across state boundaries is nothing compared to another country's legal 

system.

---

Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Although we cannot offer new engines anymore because of the end of our contractual agreement with Lycoming, I can tell you that an overhauled IO-540 built in this configuration to factory new limits, including new cylinders, starter, mags, and new fuel injection currently costs $10,000 less than the Thunderbolt option.  

   

I understand that Lycoming very recently passed on a substantial price increase to their remaining “kit” engine shops.  That may be where the difference is seen between a new engine from a custom builder and Thunderbolt or Van’s assembly line factory engine.  

   

For you new factory engine owners, you might be advised to check Service Bulletin 240U, in which Lycoming requires the replacement of roller tappets at prop strike, and they are not cheap.  Ouch!  

   

Rhonda Barrett-Bewley  

Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 3:55 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Engine Referral  

  

         

Must be me than.. but I just looked and the difference is as follows:  

    

Thunderbolt website-   

            

[b]Base Price: [/b]YIO-540-D4A5[b] [/b]                 

[b]Fuel System:[/b]               

Injected                       

[b]Aerobatic Kit:[/b]               

No                       

[b]Horsepower:[/b]               

260                       

[b]Displacement     (Cubic Inches):[/b]               

540                       

[b]Stock Compression     Ratio:[/b]               

8.5:1                       

[b]Cylinder Type:[/b]               

Parallel Valve                   

         

$49,500.00              

   

    

Vans Website:  

    

Experimental IO-540 260HP (RV-10 only)

 Part Number = EA XIO-540-D4A5 RT

 Price = $42300.00   

    

   

    

IO-540 260HP (RV-10 only)

 Part Number = EA IO-540-D4A5 RT

 Price = $46050.00     

   

    

   

    

   

    

This looks about the same as it was when I was researching the engines.  

    

I can only imagine that if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less than?  

    

   

    

   

    

   

      

From: Phillip Perry (philperry9(at)gmail.com)   

    

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:21 PM  

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Subject: Re: Engine Referral  

  

    

   

  

    

I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.   Nothing in the range of 5-6K.    

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>

 

 I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

 For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans certified. BUT it is experimental.

 I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little more than you were able to get it for.

 If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla IO540.

 

 

 --

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

So far I have been really happy with my Aerosport Power IO-540-N1A5

Almost 50 hours on it.



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 12, 2011, at 12:17, "N306PB" <wrathbun(at)ihtw.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 As Oshkosh approaches I am sure there are some out there looking for an engine. Should you be tempted by the New Firewall Forward out of Colorado contact me privately for a referral. In a nutshell, dealing with them has been the most frustrating, disappointing, and infuriating experience of my entire RV-10 build.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=346091#346091

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

sportflying(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Barrett builds great engines 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Has anyone mentioned a rebuilt Barrett is often better than a brand new factory built VANS.Â  It just might have one less rebuild in its lifecycle but the tolerances are great.Â  New engines are also prone to "Break-In".Â  A Pre-delivery dyno run, now that sets builders apart.Â  Airshow performers are a good benchmark for pilots who know engines and hang their lives on the engine and prop blades.Â  Do research.Â  Get what you pay for.

 

John

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sportflying(at)yahoo.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:31 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral

 

Barrett builds great engines 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> 



Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 



Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:20:07 -0500



To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>



ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 



Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Referral



 



Although we cannot offer new = engines anymore because of the end of our contractual agreement with Lycoming, I = can tell you that an overhauled IO-540 built in this configuration to = factory new limits, including new cylinders, starter, mags, and new fuel injection currently costs $10,000 less than the Thunderbolt = option.

 

I understand that Lycoming very = recently passed on a substantial price increase to their remaining = â€œkitâ€ engine shops.  That may be where the difference is seen between a = new engine from a custom builder and Thunderbolt or Vanâ€™s assembly = line factory engine.

 

For you new factory engine owners, = you might be advised to check Service Bulletin 240U, in which Lycoming = requires the replacement of roller tappets at prop strike, and they are not cheap. =  Ouch!

 

Rhonda = Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, = Inc.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com = [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pascal

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, = 2011 3:55 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: = Engine Referral



 

Must be me = than.. but I just looked and the difference is as = follows:



Thunderbolt = website- 



Base = Price: YIO-540-D4A5 = 

Fuel = System:

Injected

Aerobatic = Kit:

No

Horsepower:

260

Displacement (Cubic Inches):

540

Stock = Compression Ratio:

8.5:1<= /font>

Cylinder = Type:

Parallel = Valve

$49,500.00

 



Vans = Website:



Experimental IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA XIO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $42300.00 



 



IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA IO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $46050.00 

 



 



 



This looks = about the same as it was when I was researching the engines.



I can only = imagine that if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less = than?



 



 



 



From: [url=3D%22mailto:philperry9(at)gmail.com]Phillip Perry[/url] 



Sent: Tuesday, July = 12, 2011 1:21 PM



To: [url=3D%22mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url] 



Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral

 

I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.   Nothing in the range of = 5-6K.

On Tue, Jul = 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <[url=3D%22mailto:rv10flyer(at)verizon.net]rv10flyer(at)verizon.net[/url]>



I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow = deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow = special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but = for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental = when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With = that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans = certified. BUT it is experimental.

I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well = for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to = mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little = more than you were able to get it for.

If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only = being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the = same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla = IO540.

--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Now John, you are just trying to curry favor with Rhonda..................she is on to your schtick already. )



On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)> wrote:

 [quote]

Has anyone mentioned a rebuilt Barrett is often better than a brand new factory built VANS.Â  It just might have one less rebuild in its lifecycle but the tolerances are great.Â  New engines are also prone to "Break-In".Â  A Pre-delivery dyno run, now that sets builders apart.Â  Airshow performers are a good benchmark for pilots who know engines and hang their lives on the engine and prop blades.Â  Do research.Â  Get what you pay for. 

Â 

John

Â  

Â 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of sportflying(at)yahoo.com (sportflying(at)yahoo.com)

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:31 PM



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral

 



Â 

Barrett builds great engines 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry 



From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com (Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com)>  



Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) 



Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:20:07 -0500 



To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>



ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)  



Subject: RE: Engine Referral



Â 





Although we cannot offer new = engines anymore because of the end of our contractual agreement with Lycoming, I = can tell you that an overhauled IO-540 built in this configuration to = factory new limits, including new cylinders, starter, mags, and new fuel injection currently costs $10,000 less than the Thunderbolt = option. 

Â 

I understand that Lycoming very = recently passed on a substantial price increase to their remaining = â€œkitâ€ engine shops. Â That may be where the difference is seen between a = new engine from a custom builder and Thunderbolt or Vanâ€™s assembly = line factory engine. 

Â 

For you new factory engine owners, = you might be advised to check Service Bulletin 240U, in which Lycoming = requires the replacement of roller tappets at prop strike, and they are not cheap. = Â Ouch! 

Â 

Rhonda = Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, = Inc. 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) = [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Pascal

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, = 2011 3:55 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: = Engine Referral 



Â 



Must be me = than.. but I just looked and the difference is as = follows: 



Thunderbolt = website- 

 

Base = Price: YIO-540-D4A5 =  

Fuel = System:

Injected 

Aerobatic = Kit:

No 

Horsepower:

260 

Displacement (Cubic Inches):

540 

Stock = Compression Ratio:

8.5:1<= /font> 

Cylinder = Type: 

Parallel = Valve

$49,500.00 

Â 



Vans = Website:

 

Experimental IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA XIO-540-D4A5 = RT

 Price =3D = $42300.00 



Â 



IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

 Part Number =3D EA IO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $46050.00 

Â 

 

Â 



Â 



This looks = about the same as it was when I was researching the engines. 



I can only = imagine that if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less = than?



Â  



Â 



Â 

 

From: Phillip Perry 



Sent: Tuesday, July = 12, 2011 1:21 PM 



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 



Subject: Re: Engine Referral 

Â 



I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.Â Â  Nothing in the range of = 5-6K. 

On Tue, Jul = 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net>

 

I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow = deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow = special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

 For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but = for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental = when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With = that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans = certified. BUT it is experimental.

 I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well = for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to = mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little = more than you were able to get it for.

 If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only = being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the = same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla = IO540.

 



--

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

I paid for extra bench running time with BPE so as to leave some of the break-in to the professionals well before first flight. So far so good.



Robin Â 



On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)> wrote:

 [quote]

Has anyone mentioned a rebuilt Barrett is often better than a brand new factory built VANS.Â  It just might have one less rebuild in its lifecycle but the tolerances are great.Â  New engines are also prone to "Break-In".Â  A Pre-delivery dyno run, now that sets builders apart.Â  Airshow performers are a good benchmark for pilots who know engines and hang their lives on the engine and prop blades.Â  Do research.Â  Get what you pay for. 

Â 

John

Â  

Â 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of sportflying(at)yahoo.com (sportflying(at)yahoo.com)

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:31 PM



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral

 



Â 

Barrett builds great engines 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry 



From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com (Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com)>  



Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) 



Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:20:07 -0500 



To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>



ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)  



Subject: RE: Engine Referral



Â 





Although we cannot offer new = engines anymore because of the end of our contractual agreement with Lycoming, I = can tell you that an overhauled IO-540 built in this configuration to = factory new limits, including new cylinders, starter, mags, and new fuel injection currently costs $10,000 less than the Thunderbolt = option. 

Â 

I understand that Lycoming very = recently passed on a substantial price increase to their remaining = â€œkitâ€ engine shops. Â That may be where the difference is seen between a = new engine from a custom builder and Thunderbolt or Vanâ€™s assembly = line factory engine. 

Â 

For you new factory engine owners, = you might be advised to check Service Bulletin 240U, in which Lycoming = requires the replacement of roller tappets at prop strike, and they are not cheap. = Â Ouch! 

Â 

Rhonda = Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, = Inc. 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) = [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Pascal

 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, = 2011 3:55 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: = Engine Referral 



Â 



Must be me = than.. but I just looked and the difference is as = follows: 



Thunderbolt = website- 

 

Base = Price: YIO-540-D4A5 =  

Fuel = System:

Injected 

Aerobatic = Kit: 

No

Horsepower: 

260

Displacement (Cubic Inches): 

540

Stock = Compression Ratio: 

8.5:1<= /font> 

Cylinder = Type:

Parallel = Valve 

$49,500.00

Â  



Vans = Website:



Experimental IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

 Part Number =3D EA XIO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $42300.00 



Â 

 

IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA IO-540-D4A5 = RT

 Price =3D = $46050.00 

Â 



Â  



Â 



This looks = about the same as it was when I was researching the engines. 



I can only = imagine that if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less = than?



Â  



Â 



Â 

 

From: Phillip Perry 



Sent: Tuesday, July = 12, 2011 1:21 PM 



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 



Subject: Re: Engine Referral 

Â 



I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.Â Â  Nothing in the range of = 5-6K. 

On Tue, Jul = 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net>

 

I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow = deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow = special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

 For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but = for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental = when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With = that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans = certified. BUT it is experimental.

 I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well = for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to = mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little = more than you were able to get it for.

 If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only = being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the = same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla = IO540.

 



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: Engine Referral

Thanks for chiming in.Â  When calculating comparable engine costs,Â  The value of a solid break-in can often help with other factors to reach TBO with the rings and related components.

 

John

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 5:25 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral



 

I paid for extra bench running time with BPE so as to leave some of the break-in to the professionals well before first flight. So far so good.

 



Robin  

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)> wrote:

Has anyone mentioned a rebuilt Barrett is often better than a brand new factory built VANS.  It just might have one less rebuild in its lifecycle but the tolerances are great.  New engines are also prone to "Break-In".  A Pre-delivery dyno run, now that sets builders apart.  Airshow performers are a good benchmark for pilots who know engines and hang their lives on the engine and prop blades.  Do research.  Get what you pay for.

 

John

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of sportflying(at)yahoo.com (sportflying(at)yahoo.com)

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:31 PM



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral





 

Barrett builds great engines 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com (Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com)> 



Sender: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) 



Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:20:07 -0500



To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>



ReplyTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 



Subject: RE: RV10-List: Engine Referral



 



Although we cannot offer new = engines anymore because of the end of our contractual agreement with Lycoming, I = can tell you that an overhauled IO-540 built in this configuration to = factory new limits, including new cylinders, starter, mags, and new fuel injection currently costs $10,000 less than the Thunderbolt = option.

 

I understand that Lycoming very = recently passed on a substantial price increase to their remaining = â€œkitâ€ engine shops.  That may be where the difference is seen between a = new engine from a custom builder and Thunderbolt or Vanâ€™s assembly = line factory engine.

 

For you new factory engine owners, = you might be advised to check Service Bulletin 240U, in which Lycoming = requires the replacement of roller tappets at prop strike, and they are not cheap. =  Ouch!

 

Rhonda = Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, = Inc.

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) = [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Pascal

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, = 2011 3:55 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List: = Engine Referral



 

Must be me = than.. but I just looked and the difference is as = follows:



Thunderbolt = website- 



Base = Price: YIO-540-D4A5[b] = [/b]

Fuel = System:

Injected

Aerobatic = Kit:

No

Horsepower:

260

Displacement (Cubic Inches):

540

Stock = Compression Ratio:

8.5:1<= /font>

Cylinder = Type:

Parallel = Valve

$49,500.00

 



Vans = Website:



Experimental IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA XIO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $42300.00 



 



IO-540 260HP (RV-10 = only)

Part Number =3D EA IO-540-D4A5 = RT

Price =3D = $46050.00 

 



 



 



This looks = about the same as it was when I was researching the engines.



I can only = imagine that if one calls Thunderbolt the difference is less = than?



 



 



 



From: Phillip Perry 



Sent: Tuesday, July = 12, 2011 1:21 PM



To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com 



Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Referral

 





I'm seeing $1,500 - $2,000 too.   Nothing in the range of = 5-6K.

On Tue, Jul = 12, 2011 at 3:11 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net>



I wonder how you did so well to get it within $2000? Without any airshow = deals, it was like $3000 more for certified, and about $6000 more than the Vans experimental when I researched this option. if I throw in the airshow = special of $1000 off package that gets up there even more.

For $2000, there is no doubt Thunderbolt engines is the way to go, but = for someone like me that couldn't care if it's certified or experimental = when the rest of my aircraft is experimental, $7000 more was not an option. With = that said I have most of this in my engine for far less than a Vans = certified. BUT it is experimental.

I support the decision you made, and I would have considered it as well = for such a small amount, but for someone looking for an engine I need to = mention that they may be surprised to see the price difference being a little = more than you were able to get it for.

If anyone is wondering Vans offers the engines at OEM prices, hence only = being able to get one per builder number. I discovered the price was about the = same a some rebuilds out there. It's a good deal for a simple vanilla = IO540.

--

billz

Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Location: Clinton, New York

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Referral

I've just gone through all the decisions about an engine for my RV-10 and settled on a Thunderbolt from Lycoming.  There are many quality field facilities to go to, but the price and value lead me to the Thunderbolt.  The price was only a little more than the stock OEM engine, but had the added internal component balancing, cylinder volumetric balancing and port and polish intake and exhaust chambers.  They are providing the AirFlow Performance injector system, configured to my spec.  



I had many conflicting thoughts concerning engine break-in.  I even considered buying a used engine, run it for a couple of hundred hours then have it overhauled.  I decided to go with extra run-time in the Lycoming test cell.  It's only an extra $200 to have a total of 5 hrs test cell time.  This should get me through the worst of the break-in concerns.  I'm having the engine prepared for long term storage with desiccant plugs and preservation oil in the crankcase and cylinders.  (This was included for free.)  This should provide protection during installation, cowl fitting, etc.  I was able to delay delivery and hold the current price ($43K) for delivery next June, when I expect to be ready for it.  Lycoming will deliver the engine anywhere in the CONUS for a flat $199.  I can't drive there and back for less than that!  If anyone is seriously interested in a Thunderbolt, call Jeff at Lycoming (the Thunderbolt guy) and see if he will honor that price.  The price only changed in the last few days. 



Anyway this what I decided to do.  Everyone should do what works best for them.

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