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912 model IV engine idle

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PMorel

Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Locust Grove, GA USA

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:23 am Post subject: 912 model IV engine idle

Has anyone else experienced this problem.  I'm unable to sustain an engine idle below 2200 rpm without the carburetors overloading and flooding out.  I suspect the angle of the engine due to the tailwheel configuration and the float level of the fuel in the carburetor bowl.  My carbs are in sync with each other and would like to get the idle down.  Also, what would be an ideal idle speed for a 912?

 

Paul Morel

912 Speedster

Locust Grove, GA



   

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Paul Morel
912 Speedster
Locust Grove, GA

www.WingsAirPhotos.com

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: 912 model IV engine idle

Paul,

  

 I had an issue once that your post reminds me of.   I rebuilt the carburetors and after every flight as I was taxiing back at idle,  the engine would begin to run very rough and then would spill fuel out of the  vent lines.  I traced it to the new float needles.  Apparently at low  engine speed, there was enough vibration, that the float needles wouldn't seat  securely, allowing fuel to pass and then overloading the float bowl.  I  went back to the original needles and no further problems.  This experience  tells me that you may have a bad float or a warn needle.

  

 Lowell

  



  From: PMorel (pmorel(at)bellsouth.net) 

 Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:20 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: 912 model IV engine idle

 



  

 Has anyone else experienced this problem.  I'm unable to sustain an  engine idle below 2200 rpm without the carburetors overloading and flooding out.   I suspect the angle of the engine due to the tailwheel configuration and  the float level of the fuel in the carburetor bowl.  My carbs are in sync  with each other and would like to get the idle down.  Also, what would be  an ideal idle speed for a 912?

 

Paul  Morel

912 Speedster

 Locust Grove, GA

 



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fgoggio(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: 912 model IV engine idle

paul i had this same problem,i changed carbs, did no good, i synced the carbs no good,i talked to the machinac working on the engine about checking the redive system,was told that could not be the problem i could not get the engine to idle less the 2000 to 2200,talked him into taking the redive off,rebuillding it, that solved the problem

the way we checked it was take the prop off the engine, cranked it up,could idle it as low as you want, smooth as silk,prop back on same story,just be care to go to low idle when cranking with no prop.i now idle at 1600 tom 1800 prm smooth.    

frank Goggio    wilmington   nc  912 speedster



From: PMorel <pmorel(at)bellsouth.net>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:20 AM

Subject: 912 model IV engine idle

Has anyone else experienced this problem.  I'm  unable to sustain an engine idle below 2200 rpm without the carburetors overloading and flooding out.  I suspect the angle of the engine due to the tailwheel configuration and the float level of the fuel in the carburetor bowl.  My carbs are in sync with each other and would like to get the idle down.  Also, what would be an ideal idle speed for a 912?

 

Paul Morel

912 Speedster

Locust Grove, GA



   

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Re: 912 model IV engine idle

Hi Paul,



I wouldn't be too fast to blame the carb angle. There are many tail dragger's out there with 912's and no issues. Do you have fuel coming out of the vent tubes and is your engine running real rough? If it is really rough it could be a fuel flow issue and worst case scenario is a poor slipper clutch and time for a gearbox rebuild.

How old is the engine and how many hours? If it is older than 5 years have the carbs been rebuilt? What is the mag drop at let's say 3400 rpm? It should be 50-60 rpm. It may be the carb needle jet, check the mixture screw on the bottom of each carb to be turned out 1.5 turns. Make sure each choke is fully closing. What rpm did you balance the carbs at? If it was 2500 or below that was too low and your far better off doing a balance at 3500+ rpm and then making sure they are balanced at idle. If you balance at 2500 rpm then I guarantee they will be off up at 3500-4000 rpm. We don't fly next to idle rpm so the carbs shouldn't be banced there.



If you answer so of the above questions or call me we might be able to pin this down. If you do call me I'm out of town right now so use the cell number.

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sdemeyer

Joined: 31 Jul 2009
Posts: 45

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:56 am Post subject: Re: 912 model IV engine idle

+ 1 on the float needles Lowell mentioned. I had the exact same problem and the only way I could fix was to reuse the old needles. It was very odd as the only difference I could tell was the tip material. I even sent my carbs to an authorized Rotax dealer and had them checked out to see if I screwed something up. Checked out fine but still had the same problem until I put the old needles back in.

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Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: 912 model IV engine idle

I also had to go back to the old needles when I did my carbs. The  internal springs in the "new' needles are stiffer than the old needles. The new  needles allowed fuel to spill out the carb intakes and sure had an effect on the  idle. The carbs are further out on the Kitfox due to the reversed intake  manifolds. I believe this causes more vibration at each carb (ie: a pendulum  effect)

  Try the old needles and see if that helps.

                                            Dick Maddux

                                            Fox 4 

                                           Milton,Fl  

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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: 912 model IV engine idle

When I rebuilt my carburetor and got the new needles and  had to go back to the old ones, I called for some tech advice per the  problem.  I don't recall who I called as it was probably ten years ago  (eight actually - I just checked).  I was told that the needles for the ULS  and the UL were different.  As I recall, and please don't quote me on this,  but I think my needles were brass colored and the ULS needles were black.   I tried to do a little research for this note and found that one of the service  centers is shipping the same needles for the ULS carburetor rebuild kit as well  as the UL kit.  I don't know if things have changed since '04 or if it is  simply easier to only stock one needle.  My rebuild kit, though, was  supposedly for a UL and the new needles didn't work.  I would hope that  calling Lockwood or LEAF could get some "helpful" advice.

  

 Lowell

  



  From: Lloyd Eggstaff (lloydeggstaff(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:52 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: 912 model IV engine idle

 



Are the old needles available anywhere? I tend to have the same  problem with my Vixen with the 912.



 On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 1:56 AM, <Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 [quote]      I also had to go back to the old needles when I did my carbs. The    internal springs in the "new' needles are stiffer than the old needles. The    new needles allowed fuel to spill out the carb intakes and sure had an effect    on the idle. The carbs are further out on the Kitfox due to the reversed    intake manifolds. I believe this causes more vibration at each carb (ie: a    pendulum effect)

    Try the old needles and see if that helps.

                                                Dick Maddux

                                                Fox 4 

                                             Milton,Fl    

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