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andrew(at)entro.com
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 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
[quote] NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. [quote][b]
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:05 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Hi Andrew
If you want the most bang for the buck you'll spend less and go faster just selling the Travelor and buying a Tiger.
If you want to make the Travelor go really fast the most bang for buck is thru Maynard Crosbys STC for installing a
180HP Lycoming up front. There are a few Travelors with this engine and their owners like to think they are faster than
Tigers. Maynards number is (425) 493-7067. You can clean polish wax drag reduce prop change aft CG and lighten until
You run out of ideas but all that combined won't give you as much gain as the bigger engine. Do all that and add the engine
and then you'll have the fastest Travelor
Ned
[quote]
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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[b]
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ArjayS(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:16 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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I am compelled to agree with Ned. Sell the plane, get a Tiger. Absolutley the cheapest way to go faster. Everthing else is an experiment in how much money you can spend in a never ending pursuit of "almost as fast as a Tiger" for far more money. [quote][b]
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:21 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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I built a 74 Traveler about 8 years ago that would true out at 137 knots. Nothing fancy. Just clean-up mods.
Ned's right. Spend the money on a Tiger.
From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:50 AM
Subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance.
I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
| Quote: | http://www======================
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[quote][b]
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michael(at)flightsked.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:32 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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…and once you have the Tiger, you can add most of the "go fast" mods to it, as well. You're just starting from a faster basic aircraft.
Thanks,
Michael
Michael W. Meyer
Tiger N74086
San Francisco, CA
michael(at)flightsked.com (michael(at)flightsked.com)
On Aug 31, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Gary Vogt wrote:
[quote]I built a 74 Traveler about 8 years ago that would true out at 137 knots. Nothing fancy. Just clean-up mods.
Ned's right. Spend the money on a Tiger.
From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:50 AM
Subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance.
I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
[b]
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mattd(at)drahz.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Some place in my archives I have a rather complete 337 for the use of
DMA AA1 Wheel Pants on an AA5. Since I got it through the New England
FSDO - it must have been good enough. If it is needed, let me know - I
will do the archeology and find it.
matt d
/ do not archive
Andrew Kuzyk wrote:
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression
overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for
additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems
too complex, costly for too little performance.
I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of
installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
*
*
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andrew(at)entro.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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HI Ned,
I tried selling mine and buying a Tiger, but I would not have received much money in return to offset the cost differential. So I decided to do engine mods. I might try what you are suggesting again but more likely I will get even less of the money back. Thanks.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 1:02 PM, 923te wrote:
[quote]Hi Andrew
If you want the most bang for the buck you'll spend less and go faster just selling the Travelor and buying a Tiger.
If you want to make the Travelor go really fast the most bang for buck is thru Maynard Crosbys STC for installing a
180HP Lycoming up front. There are a few Travelors with this engine and their owners like to think they are faster than
Tigers. Maynards number is (425) 493-7067. You can clean polish wax drag reduce prop change aft CG and lighten until
You run out of ideas but all that combined won't give you as much gain as the bigger engine. Do all that and add the engine
and then you'll have the fastest Travelor
Ned
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. [quote][b]
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:56 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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andrew(at)entro.com
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
[quote]Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. [quote][b]
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Some of the racers pitch for 3000rpm in cruise. Which would be more of a climb prop than a cruise prop but they make more HP by running at the higher rpm
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
[quote]Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <[url=mailto:andrew(at)entro.com]andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Depending on your level of risk aversion, get the Sensenich prop for the High Compression O320, pitch it to 63-62-61. 200 fpm better climb and 2 knots faster than the stock 61 inch pitch prop.
From: Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: AA5 - Performance Modifications
Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance.
I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Andrew:
My response is within the body of your email.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HI Barry,
So here is the additional information to help make a judgement call.
1 - Length of Runway - 2550 feet
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OK
| Quote: | 2 - Type of Runway - Paved and lit
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OK
| Quote: | 3 - Prevailing Winds - 260º - 008º
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OK 26 & 08
| Quote: | 4 - Density Alt - 2932 feet
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AHhhhh now you are getting high and thin air.
| Quote: | 5 - Typical weight of plane at takeoff - 1642 pilot only full fuel - 2062 wive and kids, full fuel
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SO, lets say 2200 Max for the AA5
| Quote: | 6 - 260º end - 50' obstruction/ 008º end - no obstructions
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HOW FAR OUT???
| Quote: | 7 - Max Static RPM - not to exceed 2375 RPM on the ground
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THIS is a bot HIGH for static... Are you sure? Is your TACH correct?
| Quote: | 8 - Current Pitch - the original McCauley prop I think it is 52"
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This is not correct... AA5 is 57 to 59" unless you have the HC Mod and the STC'd prop by Sensenich.
IF you do have a 52" that would explain the high static RPM.
Since you do have a little Density Altitude issue I would go with the HC upgrade and check your prop pitch.
You will have a greater gain by going with the HC Mod than the guess factor of the PowerFlow.
So, a higher pitch 59" takes a bigger bite of the air and will give you better air speed.
A low pitch 57" takes a smaller bite and your air speed decreases BUT you will have a better Rate of Climb. Good for short & High Density Altitude airports.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE OFF.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
[quote]
So what do you think?
Andrew
[/url]
On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:30 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
A lot more info is needed to make that judgement/call:
- How long a runway
- Type of runway
- MSL of runway
- Prevailing winds to runway 26
- Density ALT
- How much does the plane weigh for your flights
- Alt required to clear any obstruction(s)
- What is your Max Static RPM 2375
- What pitch do you have now 52
Answer these questions and a calculated judgement can be made.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
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darren(at)powerflowsystem
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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|
Barry wrote in reply to Andrew:
Since you do have a little Density Altitude issue I would go with the HC upgrade and check your prop pitch.
You will have a greater gain by going with the HC Mod than the guess factor of the PowerFlow.
Power Flow: There is never a substitute for displacement - that is agreed. But there is a really simple and easy way to know how much extra power a Power Flow will give you, as an alternative taking your cylinders off changing the pistons on your engine, which is what you do by going with the HC pistons. Pulling the cylinders, installing the pistons, reinstalling, etc is a quite a number of hours.
In contrast, you can take off the cowling, do a full static run-up 90 degrees apart (to account for wind) and get an accurate Static RPM number. Drop the old exhaust, install the Power Flow, leave the cowling off and repeat the test. You’ll know in an instant (as long as the winds aren’t howling) what kind of static RPM you have gained. If you get what you are looking for (typical gain is 50-75 RPM) then you can continue to modify the cowling (as appropriate for the kind of Power Flow Exhaust you want.) These steps can be done in 3-4 hours (or less.) Typically in about a day you are ready to go fly with the full modification done on your aircraft – no engine break-in required.
The Power Flow comes with a money back guarantee. So except for labor and shipping, you get the price of the exhaust back. Buy it through a preferred dealer and they will even cover the labor and shipping should you choose to return. No one has actually done that yet, but that is our total peace of mind feature. If I recall correctly, we have had only 1 return on a Power Flow under our money back guarantee – out of over 300 or so Grummans flying.
My suggestion above doesn’t work as simple if this a cheetah or aa5 above s/n 640, as you then have to install the Power Flow airbox and that does add some time.
IMHO The best set-up is to do both the HC and the Power Flow. This optimizes everything. Most customers tell me that the consider the HC when the engine is ready for overhaul as that seems to be the most cost effective time to do it as you have the engine apart anyway. That makes sense to me.
Barry wrote:
So, a higher pitch 59" takes a bigger bite of the air and will give you better air speed.
A low pitch 57" takes a smaller bite and your air speed decreases BUT you will have a better Rate of Climb. Good for short & High Density Altitude airports.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE OFF.
Power Flow: Totally agreed!
Darren Tilman
General Manager
Power Flow Systems, Inc.
386.253.8833
[quote][b]
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andrew(at)entro.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
|
|
Thanks Barry,
I need to check some of the items you've outlined.
For Density Altitude I used a online density calculator - need to check.
Along those lines I need to check the pitch of my prop.
Thanks Again,
Andrew
[/url]
On Sep 1, 2011, at 4:24 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
[quote]Andrew:
My response is within the body of your email.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HI Barry,
So here is the additional information to help make a judgement call.
1 - Length of Runway - 2550 feet
|
OK
| Quote: | 2 - Type of Runway - Paved and lit
|
OK
| Quote: | 3 - Prevailing Winds - 260º - 008º
|
OK 26 & 08
| Quote: | 4 - Density Alt - 2932 feet
|
AHhhhh now you are getting high and thin air.
| Quote: | 5 - Typical weight of plane at takeoff - 1642 pilot only full fuel - 2062 wive and kids, full fuel
|
SO, lets say 2200 Max for the AA5
| Quote: | 6 - 260º end - 50' obstruction/ 008º end - no obstructions
|
HOW FAR OUT???
| Quote: | 7 - Max Static RPM - not to exceed 2375 RPM on the ground
|
THIS is a bot HIGH for static... Are you sure? Is your TACH correct?
| Quote: | 8 - Current Pitch - the original McCauley prop I think it is 52"
|
This is not correct... AA5 is 57 to 59" unless you have the HC Mod and the STC'd prop by Sensenich.
IF you do have a 52" that would explain the high static RPM.
Since you do have a little Density Altitude issue I would go with the HC upgrade and check your prop pitch.
You will have a greater gain by going with the HC Mod than the guess factor of the PowerFlow.
So, a higher pitch 59" takes a bigger bite of the air and will give you better air speed.
A low pitch 57" takes a smaller bite and your air speed decreases BUT you will have a better Rate of Climb. Good for short & High Density Altitude airports.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE OFF.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
| Quote: |
So what do you think?
Andrew
[url=http://www.entro.com/]
On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:30 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
A lot more info is needed to make that judgement/call:
- How long a runway
- Type of runway
- MSL of runway
- Prevailing winds to runway 26
- Density ALT
- How much does the plane weigh for your flights
- Alt required to clear any obstruction(s)
- What is your Max Static RPM 2375
- What pitch do you have now 52
Answer these questions and a calculated judgement can be made.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance. I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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ttp://forums.matronics.com
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NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium. [quote][b]
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andrew(at)entro.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
|
|
Hi Darren,
I did do the HC mod along with the Powerflow. The engine sounds so different, quieter and more throaty. I think I may need to look at my prop in earnest. Would you know where to get a Sensenich Prop cheap.
Andrew
[url=http://www.entro.com/][/url]
On Sep 1, 2011, at 6:48 PM, Darren Tilman wrote:
| Quote: | st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } <![endif]-->
Barry wrote in reply to Andrew:
Since you do have a little Density Altitude issue I would go with the HC upgrade and check your prop pitch.
You will have a greater gain by going with the HC Mod than the guess factor of the PowerFlow.
Power Flow: There is never a substitute for displacement - that is agreed. But there is a really simple and easy way to know how much extra power a Power Flow will give you, as an alternative taking your cylinders off changing the pistons on your engine, which is what you do by going with the HC pistons. Pulling the cylinders, installing the pistons, reinstalling, etc is a quite a number of hours.
In contrast, you can take off the cowling, do a full static run-up 90 degrees apart (to account for wind) and get an accurate Static RPM number. Drop the old exhaust, install the Power Flow, leave the cowling off and repeat the test. You’ll know in an instant (as long as the winds aren’t howling) what kind of static RPM you have gained. If you get what you are looking for (typical gain is 50-75 RPM) then you can continue to modify the cowling (as appropriate for the kind of Power Flow Exhaust you want.) These steps can be done in 3-4 hours (or less.) Typically in about a day you are ready to go fly with the full modification done on your aircraft – no engine break-in required.
The Power Flow comes with a money back guarantee. So except for labor and shipping, you get the price of the exhaust back. Buy it through a preferred dealer and they will even cover the labor and shipping should you choose to return. No one has actually done that yet, but that is our total peace of mind feature. If I recall correctly, we have had only 1 return on a Power Flow under our money back guarantee – out of over 300 or so Grummans flying.
My suggestion above doesn’t work as simple if this a cheetah or aa5 above s/n 640, as you then have to install the Power Flow airbox and that does add some time.
IMHO The best set-up is to do both the HC and the Power Flow. This optimizes everything. Most customers tell me that the consider the HC when the engine is ready for overhaul as that seems to be the most cost effective time to do it as you have the engine apart anyway. That makes sense to me.
Barry wrote:
So, a higher pitch 59" takes a bigger bite of the air and will give you better air speed.
A low pitch 57" takes a smaller bite and your air speed decreases BUT you will have a better Rate of Climb. Good for short & High Density Altitude airports.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE OFF.
Power Flow: Totally agreed!
Darren Tilman
General Manager
Power Flow Systems, Inc.
386.253.8833
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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|
Andrew,
The only measure I make is that the engine needs to turn over 2700 rpm at 7000 feet.
The rest is esoteric.
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: AA5 - Performance Modifications
Andrew:
My response is within the body of your email.
Barry
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HI Barry,
So here is the additional information to help make a judgement call.
1 - Length of Runway - 2550 feet
|
OK
| Quote: | 2 - Type of Runway - Paved and lit
|
OK
| Quote: | 3 - Prevailing Winds - 260º - 008º
|
OK 26 & 08
| Quote: | 4 - Density Alt - 2932 feet
|
AHhhhh now you are getting high and thin air.
| Quote: | 5 - Typical weight of plane at takeoff - 1642 pilot only full fuel - 2062 wive and kids, full fuel
|
SO, lets say 2200 Max for the AA5
| Quote: | 6 - 260º end - 50' obstruction/ 008º end - no obstructions
|
HOW FAR OUT???
| Quote: | 7 - Max Static RPM - not to exceed 2375 RPM on the ground
|
THIS is a bot HIGH for static... Are you sure? Is your TACH correct?
| Quote: | 8 - Current Pitch - the original McCauley prop I think it is 52"
|
This is not correct... AA5 is 57 to 59" unless you have the HC Mod and the STC'd prop by Sensenich.
IF you do have a 52" that would explain the high static RPM.
Since you do have a little Density Altitude issue I would go with the HC upgrade and check your prop pitch.
You will have a greater gain by going with the HC Mod than the guess factor of the PowerFlow.
So, a higher pitch 59" takes a bigger bite of the air and will give you better air speed.
A low pitch 57" takes a smaller bite and your air speed decreases BUT you will have a better Rate of Climb. Good for short & High Density Altitude airports.
IT'S ALWAYS A TRADE OFF.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
| Quote: |
So what do you think?
Andrew
[/url]
On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:30 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
A lot more info is needed to make that judgement/call:
- How long a runway
- Type of runway
- MSL of runway
- Prevailing winds to runway 26
- Density ALT
- How much does the plane weigh for your flights
- Alt required to clear any obstruction(s)
- What is your Max Static RPM 2375
- What pitch do you have now 52
Answer these questions and a calculated judgement can be made.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Barry,
Is the idea to twist it to get a bigger bite or a finer bite? The issue I have is I fly out of a fairly short field so I need a bit of climb performance.
Andrew
On Aug 31, 2011, at 4:53 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew:
The only other item that I can think of is re-pitching the prop.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Kuzyk <andrew(at)entro.com (andrew(at)entro.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I fly a '74 Grumman Traveler and recently had a top high compression overhaul completed along with a Powerflow exhaust. I am looking for additional performance enhancements for speed climb and endurance.
A few days ago I initiated a conversation about winglets but it seems too complex, costly for too little performance.
I am looking into wheel pants but am concerned about the cost of installation and product, so far I have ony investigated DMA.
Is there anything else?
Andrew
| Quote: | NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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darren(at)powerflowsystem
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| Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: AA5 - Performance Modifications |
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Andrew-
Best source that I am aware of is Fletchair. Give Garner a call and I’m sure he can either help you or direct you to an alternative source.
Darren Tilman
General Manager
Power Flow Systems, Inc.
386.253.8833
I did do the HC mod along with the Powerflow. The engine sounds so different, quieter and more throaty. I think I may need to look at my prop in earnest. Would you know where to get a Sensenich Prop cheap.
[quote]
NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY. This communication, including any information transmitted with it, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or responsible for delivering the message to an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is strictly prohibited, as is the taking or omitting of any action in reliance upon this communication. If you received this communication in error or without authorization please notify us immediately by return e-mail or otherwise and permanently delete the entire communication from any computer, disk drive, or other storage medium.
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