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rsq2424(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead 
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Hi Mike,
Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a lot better about your plane after it is installed.
It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired and only work about an hour per day.
If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because the rear ribs get in the way.
You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to get the hard aluminum alloy.
The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.
The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 inch thick after you are all done).
I think you are in for an exciting winter project.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
XL 20 hours into flight test.
On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: [quote] Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
[b]
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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:27 am Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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You can find in it Zenith.Aero:
http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/installing-the-upgrade-package
Carlos
On 11 November 2011 13:57, Mike <rsq2424(at)yahoo.com (rsq2424(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
| Quote: |
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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rsq2424(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined to use bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the bolts are in the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet)
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL upgrade video
Hi Mike,
Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a lot better about your plane after it is installed.
It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired and only work about an hour per day.
If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because the rear ribs get in the way.
You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to get the hard aluminum alloy.
The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.
The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 inch thick after you are all done).
I think you are in for an exciting winter project.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
XL 20 hours into flight test.
On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: [quote] Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
wwwet="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com</========================
--> [b]
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Hi MIke,
I used lots of bolts on the spars and got brave and used the rivets on the carry-through. It was easier to work on the carry through because I could do it on my work shop bench instead of trying to reach all the spots while attached to the rest of the wing. I found the rivet holes were larger than the implied size from the rivets used. That meant using AN-4 bolts on many of the spar holes and AN-3 on the ones furthest from the wing root. After drilling out the existing rivets I couldn't use an AN3 bolt to replace a similar sized rivet because it would be too small for the hole.
You probably need to figure out what size bolt to use and order it from Spruce. There will be several different lengths you'll need. Once you learn the AN bolt length code it is pretty easy to decide what length bolt you need for each application. The code is somewhat silly. The length numbers are the length from the bottom of the bolt head to the end of the bolt in inches and 1/8 ths of inches. That means an AN 3 bolt that is 7/8" long is an AN3-7A but when you add 1/8" it becomes AN3-10A. The A says it is not drilled. No A means the thread end is drilled and H means the head is drilled.
Have fun,
Paul
On 11/11/2011 12:25 PM, Mike wrote: [quote] Thanks Carlos for the link, and thanks Paul for the tips. I'm inclined to use bolts if that's an option...I presume the size/specs of the bolts are in the instructions? (haven't gotten to that point yet)
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> (psm(at)att.net)
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: XL upgrade video
Hi Mike,
Congratulations on getting the upgrade kit. I'm sure you will feel a lot better about your plane after it is installed.
It took me close to a year to install mine. Of course, I am retired and only work about an hour per day.
If you have never done solid aircraft rivets (like me before this project) you face a small learning task. You will need a 3X or bigger rivet gun and a heavy (5 pound?) bucking bar to set the rivets. I found this is easier to do with deerskin gloves to absorb some of the shock instead of all of it going to my arm and shoulder (I have a bad back, so this was important to me). I think you will find a little practice on scrap will be enough to get you going just fine with this process. You can also replace the rivets with bolts if you prefer. This might be attractive for at least some of the positions because the rear ribs get in the way.
You will probably be wise to order some extra rivets from Spruce or some other vendor. You will need extras for practice and also for those rivets that are not up to snuff on the first try. They are not at all expensive. Be sure to order the "AD" version of the rivets to get the hard aluminum alloy.
The other challenge will be removing the existing hard rivets in the spars. I found the easy way to do this is to drill off one head and drive the rest of the rivet out with the rivet gun and a straight punch (5/32 " ?). For a bucking bar in that case a heavy steel tube with an Inside Diameter around 3/8" works well.
The last big challenge for me was drilling the bolt holes that connect the wings to the spar carry-through. I found step drilling with small increments works best - better than reaming. Reamers would not stay straight for me when going such a thick stack of aluminum (around 1 inch thick after you are all done).
I think you are in for an exciting winter project.
Good luck,
Paul
Camas, WA
XL 20 hours into flight test.
On 11/11/2011 10:57 AM, Mike wrote: | Quote: | Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
wwwet="_blank" href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com |
[b]
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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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As someone who had never even touched a rivet gun, I sweated riveting a lot.
I ended up buying a 4x sized gun (about $110) and a 1/4 pound of 1" rivets and a rivet cutter from Spruce.
I practiced a bit on some cheap stock from Home Depot.
I've gotta say the setting those rivets was about the easiest thing I've done as part of the upgrade. It's really cake.
It is a 2 person job, and you might want to practice a few rivets with your bucking bar holder.
Note that you don't need a 5lb bucking bar with the 4x gun. A "normal" sized one works fine.
Doing a good job of drilling out the old rivets is a lot more work, and a lot fussier than installing the new rivets.
Good Luck,
Ron
On Nov 11, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Mike wrote:
[quote]Hello all,
I'm finally getting back to my XL project after years of...well...flying a spam can instead
Anyway, I received the upgrade compliance kit, and wow...much more involved than I had imagined. Plus I see there are solid rivets to be installed, which I've never done. The instructions refer to a video diary of the kit being installed, but doesn't provide a link. Does anyone know where I can find that? Thanks,
Mike Fortunato
601XL (circa 1999)
Jab 3300
| Quote: |
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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japhillipsga(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:21 pm Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Mike, about the solid rivets. They are not much to do once you get the hang of shooting and bucking. Problem is getting the tools may be a issue. I can shoot rivets as I have built an RV-8a, but I decided to use AN3 bolts and nuts instead of solid rivets. ZAC allows for that option. Call Roger at ZAC and ask him. Bunch stronger, costs more, much easier and quicker. A tiny bit heavier. Just another way to do the wings. I finished my up grade to XL-B about a year ago. Added a total of 35 pounds to the plane. Fly's great ! Best regards, Bill of Georgia
--
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Tommy Walker
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: Re: XL upgrade video |
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I haven't written anything on this list for a couple of years, but I saw the reply by Paul and wanted to offer a suggestion about reaming.
I'm building a Kitfox now and there are lots of holes to ream. A suggestion was made to pull the reamer through the hole when reaming instead of trying to push it in a straight path. It worked for me. I have a low speed drill and would thread the reamer through the hole and insert it in the drill and while pulling, I would run the drill. Worked very well.
BTW, Paul, glad to hear you have completed the upgrade to your 601.
Me, I built two and a half 701s and have moved on to something else. The Kitfox is a beautiful plane, but completely different from the Zenith.
Do no archive,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N25A reserved
N7462M (sold)
N8701 (sold)
N8701T (sold)
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL |
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psm(at)att.net
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: XL upgrade video |
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Hi Tommy,
Pulling the reamer does sound like a good idea. Still, step drilling
with small increments also produces a very nice hole. Drills naturally
go straight and this is really true when taking a small amount of metal
from a relatively large hole.
I too am glad to have finished building and upgrading my XL. It flies
pretty well now, but still has a way to go to finish flight testing.
The issue I am working on right now is a lack of yaw stability. It is
easy to see when you look at the design that there is nothing making it
fly straight except possibly the nose wheel centering mechanism in the
lower gear column bearing. This doesn't work well on my plane, and I
suspect the same is true on many others. The full flying rudder is nice
for control but has no natural "Straight ahead" position like planes
with a fixed vertical stabilizer. I am going to try adding strakes next.
Paul
On 11/12/2011 6:25 AM, Tommy Walker wrote:
| Quote: |
I haven't written anything on this list for a couple of years, but I saw the reply by Paul and wanted to offer a suggestion about reaming.
I'm building a Kitfox now and there are lots of holes to ream. A suggestion was made to pull the reamer through the hole when reaming instead of trying to push it in a straight path. It worked for me. I have a low speed drill and would thread the reamer through the hole and insert it in the drill and while pulling, I would run the drill. Worked very well.
BTW, Paul, glad to hear you have completed the upgrade to your 601.
Me, I built two and a half 701s and have moved on to something else. The Kitfox is a beautiful plane, but completely different from the Zenith.
Do no archive,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N25A reserved
N7462M (sold)
N8701 (sold)
N8701T (sold)
--------
Tommy Walker
N8701 - Anniston, AL
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