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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:05 pm Post subject: polishing

Hello, all



I thought I'd post some information on polishing.



I have been polishing flat sheets before actually drilling holes and, in some instances, even before cutting the parts.

  Up to a couple of months ago, I was using "Mother's", a mag polishing paste.

I was applying it with paper towels driven by an electric drill.

That worked pretty well, but I thought a "real" polishing process should makes things go a little (hopefully a lot) quicker.

     

So, I invested on a polisher, similar to these (typical Chinese product):

http://www.drillspot.com/products/349756/Westward_1VUC2_Automotive_Polisher_Buffer

     http://www.seaskytools.net/car-polisher/379219.html



I also got Nuvite F9 and C, one pound of each, and four wool bonnets. 

All of this cost me close to CA$500.

     

I have thus far polished two sheets 4'x8', and am finishing the F9 phase on a 4'x4' piece.

The F9 jar was gone half way through the 4'x4', so it was good for approximately 72 sqft.

I believe I will be able to finish the 4'x4' and still have some C compound left (not to mention that I dropped the jar on the floor and wasted one or two spoonfuls of the stuff). 

     Clearly, I use less C than I use F9.



In terms of time required, I believe Nuvite and Mother's are on the same ball park. I did not keep proper records, but I'd say they both take one to two hours per sqft.

     Nuvite, however, makes an incredible mess, particularly the F9 phase: it creates a very fine dust that covers the whole room you are working in. And black dust bunnies are all over the place when you are using a fairly new bonnet. The mess produced by Mother's is much more "believable": the paper towels only disintegrate if they catch a corner of the sheet or any other obstacle left in its way, and the dust produced is negligible.

     The Nuvite dust requires me to wear a dust mask, or it will irritate my throat. And even with the mask, after 1.5 h, I stop because they bother me (the mask AND the dust). Also, Nuvite contains petroleum distillates, so the fumes can bother some people (my wife, for instance).

     Both approaches are awfully boring.



Bottom line, if I knew then what I know now, I would have used only Mother's: it is clean, and a couple of jars will be enough for a 4'x8' sheet - less than CA$20 taxes included (15%) at the local hardware store, no shipping charges. Did I mention it is clean?

  

Attached a picture of some tail parts, polished with Mother's

Happy New Year!

Carlos

CH601-HD, plans

tail_parts_polished.jpg

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PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: polishing

Here's pictures of mine, just using Nuvite F9 for now.  Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is done.



http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint



- Pat

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: polishing

Hi Carlos

   

   'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If  so, how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar  polisher for $50 right now. 

   

   Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag  & Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the  product you used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz  container? 

   

   Your parts look great to me. 

   

   Terry

   

   Carlos Sa wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  

   

   

 I thought I'd post some information on polishing.

   

 Bottom line, if I knew then what I know now, I would have used only  Mother's: it is clean,  and a couple of jars will be enough for a 4'x8' sheet - less than CA$20  taxes included (15%) at the local hardware store, no shipping charges.  Did I mention it is clean?

     

 Attached a picture of some tail parts, polished with Mother's

   

   

 Happy New Year!

   

   

 Carlos

 CH601-HD, plans 	
   

   -- 

Terry Phillips 

 ttp444~at~gmail.com

 Corvallis MT

 ZU-601XLB/Jab 3300  s .. l .. o .. o .. o .. w  build kit - Tail &  flaps are done; 

 Upgrading wings & ailerons per the AMD Safety Directive

 http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/   

 

   

      [quote][b]

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject: polishing

Hello, Terry

I never used a wool bonnet with Mother's - it might work, I just never tried. I am afraid it will create black dust bunnies - not something I am not very fond of.



I use a 5 " circular pad with velcro hooks on it, then a piece of foam, about 1" thick, and then the best quality paper towel I can find, cut in 5"x5" squares.

  I put the paste on the paper, and work on areas of about 1 to 1.5 square feet at a time. 

When the aluminum is clean from the paste and black residue, I stop, throw the paper away and get a new one.

And, contrary to the bonnet technique, I lay the paper/foam/disk attachment flat on against the metal, not at an angle.

  It is as fast (or slow) as Nuvite. 

Attached a picture of work in progress (tail parts).



The product you found seems to be "it", although the jar I have says the product # is 35100.

It could be because (1) it is packaged with French and English labels (for Canada) and / or (2) they changed the product code - I haven't bought one in many months - the last time was probably summer 2010.

  And I was referring to the 5 oz jar; it sells for CA$8 (it used to be CA$7) at Canadian Tire's Aeronautics dept. 

http://tinyurl.com/6p25g2w



Regards

  Carlos

On 29 December 2011 22:00, Terry Phillips <ttp444(at)gmail.com (ttp444(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        Hi Carlos

   

   'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If  so, how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar  polisher for $50 right now. 

   

   Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag  & Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the  product you used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz  container? 

   

   Your parts look great to me. 

   

   Terry

WIP.jpg

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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:54 pm Post subject: polishing

Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks awesome!

I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my motivation for trying Nuvite.



But I think can achieve the same level of "shinyness" with Mother's - with less mess. Or die trying... 

  Seriously, if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the step after C (is it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.



BTW, grade C is much less messy than F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty clean.

   

Cheers

Carlos

On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote]   --> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Here's pictures of mine, just using Nuvite F9 for now.  Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is done.

 

 http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint

 

 - Pat

 

 --------

 Patrick Hoyt

 601XLb/Corvair

 N63PZ - 99.999% done....

[b]

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: polishing

Hi Carlos,

How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?

In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl marks that I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.

William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XLB Plans 



Almost done with the wings



Miami Florida

http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/



       From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com>

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:43 PM

 Subject: Re: polishing

  

 Hello, Terry

I never used a wool bonnet with Mother's - it might work, I just never tried. I am afraid it will create black dust bunnies - not something I am not very fond of.



I use a 5 " circular pad with velcro hooks on it, then a piece of foam, about 1" thick, and then the best quality paper towel I can find, cut in 5"x5" squares.

  I put the paste on the paper, and work on areas of about 1 to 1.5 square feet at a time. 

When the aluminum is clean from the paste and black residue, I stop, throw the paper away and get a new one.

And, contrary to the bonnet technique, I lay the paper/foam/disk attachment flat on against the metal, not at an angle.

  It is as fast (or slow) as Nuvite. 

Attached a picture of work in progress (tail parts).



The product you found seems to be "it", although the jar I have says the product # is 35100.

It could be because (1) it is packaged with French and English labels (for Canada) and / or (2) they changed the product code - I haven't bought one in many months - the last time was probably summer 2010.

  And I was referring to the 5 oz jar; it sells for CA$8 (it used to be CA$7) at Canadian Tire's Aeronautics dept. 

http://tinyurl.com/6p25g2w



Regards

  Carlos

On 29 December 2011 22:00, Terry Phillips <ttp444(at)gmail.com (ttp444(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]      Hi Carlos

   

   'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If  so, how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar  polisher for $50 right now. 

   

   Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag  & Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the  product you used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz  container? 

   

   Your parts look great to me. 

   

   Terry



[b]

_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: polishing

Hello, William

The paper stays there just by friction.

Once in a while it will stick to the aluminum and will slip - frequently a sign that I used too much paste.



Usually there are no swirl marks - but I haven't brought any of these parts into the sun light yet...

  Once in a while I do get swirl marks, but it is usually due to contamination - aluminum dust left on the bench, for instance.

The work area must be very clean - no different from any other process.



And, of course, I still can finish with the finest grade of Nuvite, if I think it will make a difference - but I will have avoided the F9 (and C) mess.

  

Carlos



On 30 December 2011 08:31, William Dominguez <bill_dom(at)yahoo.com (bill_dom(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote]  Hi Carlos,

How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?

  



In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl marks that I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.

  William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XLB Plans 



Almost done with the wings



Miami Florida

http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/

  



[b]

steve.freeman(at)syntaxds
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:33 am Post subject: polishing

Hi Guys,

 

I have seen many polished planes and I have wondered how you deal with the sometimes intense reflections of sun light?  Here in Phoenix looking at a polished plane in the summer is like staring right in to the heart of the sun and can be quite blinding and unpleasant.  Do you guys wear any special eye protection or are dark sunglasses enough?

 

Steve

 

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 6:31 AM

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: polishing

 

Hi Carlos,



 



How do you attach the paper towel to the foam? Does it leave swirl marks?



 



In my trials using Nuvite with a high speed polisher, it leaves swirl marks that I later removed with an orbital polisher and a fine grade Nuvite.



 



William Dominguez



Zodiac 601XLB Plans 



Almost done with the wings



Miami Florida



http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/



 

From: Carlos Sa <carlossa52(at)gmail.com (carlossa52(at)gmail.com)>

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:43 PM

Subject: Re: polishing

Hello, Terry

I never used a wool bonnet with Mother's - it might work, I just never tried. I am afraid it will create black dust bunnies - not something I am not very fond of.



I use a 5 " circular pad with velcro hooks on it, then a piece of foam, about 1" thick, and then the best quality paper towel I can find, cut in 5"x5" squares.

I put the paste on the paper, and work on areas of about 1 to 1.5 square feet at a time. 

When the aluminum is clean from the paste and black residue, I stop, throw the paper away and get a new one.

And, contrary to the bonnet technique, I lay the paper/foam/disk attachment flat on against the metal, not at an angle.

It is as fast (or slow) as Nuvite. 

Attached a picture of work in progress (tail parts).



The product you found seems to be "it", although the jar I have says the product # is 35100.

It could be because (1) it is packaged with French and English labels (for Canada) and / or (2) they changed the product code - I haven't bought one in many months - the last time was probably summer 2010.

And I was referring to the 5 oz jar; it sells for CA$8 (it used to be CA$7) at Canadian Tire's Aeronautics dept. 

http://tinyurl.com/6p25g2w



Regards

Carlos

On 29 December 2011 22:00, Terry Phillips <ttp444(at)gmail.com (ttp444(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Hi Carlos



'Just wondering if you tried the Chinese polishers with the Mothers. If so, how did it work out? I notice Harbor Freight offers a similar polisher for $50 right now. 



Also, Googling "Mother's mag polishing paste" I find "Mothers 5101 Mag & Aluminum Polish Paste" in 5 and 10 oz containers. Is that the product you used? And, if so, are you referring to the 5 or the 10 oz container? 



Your parts look great to me. 



Terry

 



 

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jlatimer1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:50 am Post subject: polishing

Carlos,

  

 Looks like you are making good progress.  I agree with  you the F9 is super messy.  Since my workshop was my garage I had to mop  the floors and clean it up after every work period with the F9 to keep from  tracking it into the house.  The C is less messy and the S is really not  messy at all.  You really on have to use a small amount of the  S.

  

 You mentioned that you are using paper towels with the  Mother's and throwing them away after each use, which was interesting to  me.  With the S I used flannel which I purchased at a local fabric store  and I also used cut up sweat shirt material.  Both of these worked good and  I also changed them out more often.

  

 Good luck

 Jerry 

 polished 602HDS

 http://www.zenith.aero/photo/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos  Sa

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:51 PM

To:  zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:  polishing

 

Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks  awesome!

I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my  motivation for trying Nuvite.



But I think can achieve the same level of  "shinyness" with Mother's - with less mess. Or die trying... 

Seriously,  if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the step after C (is  it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.



BTW, grade C is much less messy than  F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty  clean.



Cheers

Carlos

 On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>  wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>



Here's pictures of mine, just    using Nuvite F9 for now.  Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is    done.



http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint



-    Pat



--------

Patrick Hoyt

601XLb/Corvair

N63PZ - 99.999%    done....





href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: polishing

I polished my entire 601HD with Nuvite. The wings had been hanging in my attic for 7 years. The "trick" I found, which is especially useful for older aluminum is to lightly coat the metal with mineral spirits( paint thinner) before you start. This will make the nuvite flow like cream and give an excellent result. I polish my plane once a year and still start with a light coat of mineral spirirts.

 Tim Shankland

 

 Jerry Latimer wrote: [quote]         Carlos,

    

   Looks like you are making good progress.  I agree with you the F9 is super messy.  Since my workshop was my garage I had to mop the floors and clean it up after every work period with the F9 to keep from tracking it into the house.  The C is less messy and the S is really not messy at all.  You really on have to use a small amount of the S.

    

   You mentioned that you are using paper towels with the Mother's and throwing them away after each use, which was interesting to me.  With the S I used flannel which I purchased at a local fabric store and I also used cut up sweat shirt material.  Both of these worked good and I also changed them out more often.

    

   Good luck

   Jerry 

   polished 602HDS

   http://www.zenith.aero/photo/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity

   

      From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Carlos Sa

   Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:51 PM

   To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: Re: Re: polishing

   

   

 Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks awesome!

 I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my motivation for trying Nuvite.

   

 But I think can achieve the same level of "shinyness" with Mother's - with less mess. Or die trying... 

 Seriously, if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the step after C (is it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.

   

 BTW, grade C is much less messy than F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty clean.

   

 Cheers

   

   

 Carlos

   

   

   On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>

     

 Here's pictures of mine, just using Nuvite F9 for now.  Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is done.

     

     http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint

     

 - Pat

     

 --------

 Patrick Hoyt

 601XLb/Corvair

 N63PZ - 99.999% done....

   



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c



	
 [b]

ch701builder(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: polishing

Did you add the Red stripe after the polishing? How did you prep the surface if you did?

Keith

CH701 - scratch 70% done

*************************************************************



       From: Jerry Latimer <jlatimer1(at)cox.net>

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 12:47 PM

 Subject: RE: Re: polishing

  

        Carlos,

  

 Looks like you are making good progress.  I agree with  you the F9 is super messy.  Since my workshop was my garage I had to mop  the floors and clean it up after every work period with the F9 to keep from  tracking it into the house.  The C is less messy and the S is really not  messy at all.  You really on have to use a small amount of the  S.

  

 You mentioned that you are using paper towels with the  Mother's and throwing them away after each use, which was interesting to  me.  With the S I used flannel which I purchased at a local fabric store  and I also used cut up sweat shirt material.  Both of these worked good and  I also changed them out more often.

  

 Good luck

 Jerry 

 polished 602HDS

 http://www.zenith.aero/photo/new-red-stripe?xg_source=activity



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos  Sa

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 8:51 PM

To:  zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:  polishing

 

Pat, I have looked closely at your pictures - the Zodie looks  awesome!

I liked the results you achieved, so much so that it was part of my  motivation for trying Nuvite.



But I think can achieve the same level of  "shinyness" with Mother's - with less mess. Or die trying... 

Seriously,  if I am not happy with Mother's results, I can apply the step after C (is  it "S"?), and still avoid F9 and C.



BTW, grade C is much less messy than  F9, and I assume S (?) is pretty  clean.



Cheers

Carlos

 On 29 December 2011 21:58, PatrickW <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>  wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com (pwhoyt(at)yahoo.com)>



Here's pictures of mine, just    using Nuvite F9 for now.  Will use the finer grades after phase 1 is    done.



http://www.zenith.aero/photo/albums/polish-and-paint



-    Pat



--------

Patrick Hoyt

601XLb/Corvair

N63PZ - 99.999%    done....




href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

www.aeroelrget="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://wwget="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http========================

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[b]

jlatimer1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: polishing

The red stripe was added after polishing.  It is a vinyl graphic for cars.  Surface prep was just a wipe down with denatured alcohol.  I chose the graphic because I wanted something that I could change later on.  I felt if I painted it on I would be not be able to go back to a totally polished airplane due to the surface etching required for painting.



Steve, There are sometimes in the summer that the reflection from the wings can bother me.  I generally just fly a slightly different heading.  I also purchased some cheap sunshades that are used in cars.  They have suction cups and I can move them around to block the reflection if it really gets to be annoying.  I really haven't had to do that yet.



Jerry

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