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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

NOT KOLB SPECIFIC



Last week I got the notice from the FAA that my registration was going to expire June 30 this year. It also said that they must receive my $5 before April 30 this year to keep the registration active. I decide to go ahead and pay it now. A few days later, I saw that my registration on the FAA database was updated but it now expires JAN 30, 2015.



This means that if you renew your registration early you loose that time before the next renewal is due. It is not a big deal monetarily but it is stupid and wrong for them to do that. It appears that even if you wait until the last minute (2 months before expiration), you will still loose 2 months. Bottom line is that the 3 year renewal requirement is actually 2 yrs 10 months at the most.



Live and learn.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:26 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

Thom



Good information. I just changed my address on my Kolb with them almost two years ago so my registration should be good for another year but I just got my renewal notice also for 6/30/12. I don't want to wait till the last minute and forget but.....

 



I wonder if we could send in the documentation and check dated April 30?

Rick Neilsen  



On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>

  

 NOT KOLB SPECIFIC

 

 Last week I got the notice from the FAA that my registration was going to expire June 30 this year. It also said that they must receive my $5 before April 30 this year to keep the registration active. I decide to go ahead and pay it now. A few days later, I saw that my registration on the FAA database was updated but it now expires JAN 30, 2015.

  

 This means that if you renew your registration early you loose that time before the next renewal is due. It is not a big deal monetarily but it is stupid and wrong for them to do that. It appears that even if you wait until the last minute (2 months before expiration), you will still loose 2 months. Bottom line is that the 3 year renewal requirement is actually 2 yrs 10 months at the most.

  

 Live and learn.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 Truth is what stands the test of experience.

 - Albert Einstein

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364289#364289

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 http://forums.matronics.com

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 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Rick,



Don't know. My address did not change so I did the renewal on-line. The on-line renewal probably does this short-change act without human input and could probably be fixed with a little tweaking of their program. It will be interesting to see if the renewals done by USPS get the same short-change treatment or are handled by humans bright enough to know that a 3 year renewal period begins at the expiration of the prior one.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

I wouldn't go sending an post dated checks to the government. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

sspence801(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

Post dated checks are not illegal, likely not acceptable as payment since they are nothing but a promiisory note to pay in the future.

  

 Steve Spence

 Auburn Hills, MI



 

   From: olendorf <olendorf(at)gmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thu, January 19, 2012 4:04:48 PM

Subject: Re: FAA registration renewal



--> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf(at)gmail.com (olendorf(at)gmail.com)>



I wouldn't go sending an post dated checks to the government. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.  

[Shocked]



--------

Scott Olendorf 

Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop

Schenectady, NY

http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364317#364317



 [quote][b]

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

I'll bet 2 to 1 the date never gets checked. I've seen this a dozen times. They'll just cash it now.

 do not archive.

On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:04 PM, olendorf wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I wouldn't go sending an post dated checks to the government. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.  

 [Shocked]

 

 --------

 Scott Olendorf 

 Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop

 Schenectady, NY

 http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364317#364317

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:24 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

I'll bet 2 to 1 the date never gets checked.>>



Maybe not by the FAA but the Bank  will probably pick it up, send it back 

and charge you.



Pat

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

The banks here in Ma. tell me they are not responsible for the date on the check they can cash it and if its no goo d they have two options , go after the one who wrote it or after the one who cashed it!      Chris



 

Chris Davis KXP 503 492 hrs Glider Pilot Disabled from crash building Firefly



      

  From: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:42 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: FAA registration renewal

  

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com (russk50(at)gmail.com)>



I'll bet 2 to 1 the date never gets checked. I've seen this a dozen times. They'll just cash it now.

 do not archive.

On Jan 19, 2012, at 4:04 PM, olendorf wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "olendorf" <olendorf(at)gmail.com (olendorf(at)gmail.com)>

 

 I wouldn't go sending an post dated checks to the government. I'm pretty sure that's illegal.  

 [Shocked]

 

 --------

 Scott Olendorf 

 Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop

 Schenectady, NY

 http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364317#364317

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Un</ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">htbsp;                   -Matt <====


	






 

 

  

 [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

The FAA is classifying everything as a re-registration rather than a renewal, here is the web page that details it:

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/



And here is a copy of the email I sent them asking about it:



"On January 3 of 2012 I received notice that my aircraft registration would be expiring on June 30, 2012. Not wanting to have it slip my mind, I immediately renewed online. Receiving my new aircraft registration in the mail, I saw that the next date of expiry is January 31, 2015. However on your aircraft reregistration and renewal page, is says: "Aircraft registration issued under re-registration expires three years after the last day of the month in which it is issued." OK, that explains things. However, I then see in the next sentence "Aircraft registration issued due to renewal expires three years from the expiration date of the previous certificate." Apparently there is a question of semantics here, since in my mind I was simply renewing my registration, however it is obvious from what happened that I am being classified as a re-registration. The reason this concerns me is because January 31 is not 3 years from June 30, 2012, & I am losing several months of registration off my 3 years. When January of 2015 arrives, will I be allowed to renew my aircraft registration, or will this also be classified as a re-registration and will I once again lose several months off my supposed 3 years? Could you please explain this so that it makes sense? Thank you, Richard Pike"



Will let you know what I hear back. If anything...

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Richard,

Thanks for doing that. The reply, if you get one, should be interesting even if not helpful. Or they could surprise us and recognize their error, and correct it for you. Then comes the onslaught from others whose "renewal" was mis-figured.



I suspect the automatic process of on-line renewal was programmed wrong, out of ignorance or mis-understanding on the part of the programmer. If this is the case, then it would be fairly simple to fix.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

Howcum these 'errors' are always in their favor?

do not archve

On Jan 20, 2012, at 4:09 PM, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Richard,

 Thanks for doing that. The reply, if you get one, should be interesting even if not helpful. Or they could surprise us and recognize their error, and correct it for you. Then comes the onslaught from others whose "renewal" was mis-figured.

 

 I suspect the automatic process of on-line renewal was programmed wrong, out of ignorance or mis-understanding on the part of the programmer. If this is the case, then it would be fairly simple to fix.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 Truth is what stands the test of experience.

 - Albert Einstein

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364384#364384

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Well, I got a reply. Not sure if it makes sense, or even if I'm satisfied with it, but here it is. His reply is first, followed by the question I had asked.

***********************

Mr. Pike,

 

If a certificate expires the last day of June and it is re-registered in January, the certificate will expire 3 years from January 31, 2012.  If the certificate was re-registered in June, the new certificate would expire 3 years from June 30th 2012.  In other words, the certificate will always expire 3 years from the last day of the month that the certificate was issued.  Even if it was early, on time or late.  If you re-register early (or late) the date will change.  If you wait until that month, it will stay the same.  Re-registering early will help insure that you will receive your new certificate before the current one expires.  If you wait until the expiring month, there is no guarantee that you will receive the certificate before the current one expires and there may be a change (does he mean "chance?" -rp) that you will not be eligible to fly the aircraft until it becomes a valid registration again.

 

jp



 

-----richard(at)bcchapel.org wrote: -----



    To: 9-AMC-AFS750-Aircraft/AMC/FAA(at)FAA

    From: richard(at)bcchapel.org

    Date: 01/20/2012 10:47AM

    Subject: N-Number Renewal - Problem



    Subject: Problem

    Name: Richard Pike

    E-Mail Address: richard(at)bcchapel.org

    Phone: 423-323-9441

    Application: N-Number Renewal

    Comments:  On January 3 of 2012 I received notice that my aircraft registration would be expiring on June 30, 2012. Not wanting to have it slip my mind, I immediately renewed online. Receiving my new aircraft registration in the mail, I saw that the next date of expiry is January 31, 2015. However on your aircraft reregistration and renewal page, is says:

    "Aircraft registration issued under re-registration expires three years after the last day of the month in which it is issued."



    OK, that explains things. However, I then see in the next sentence "Aircraft registration issued due to renewal expires three years from the expiration date of the previous certificate."



    Apparently there is a question of semantics here, since in my mind I was simply renewing my registration, however it is obvious from what happened that I am being classified as a re-registration.



    The reason this concerns me is because January 31 is not 3 years from June 30, 2012, & I am losing several months of registration off my 3 years.

    When January of 2015 arrives, will I be allowed to renew my aircraft registration, or will this also be classified as a re-registration and will I once again lose several months off my supposed 3 years? Could you please explain this so that it makes sense?

    Thank you,

    Richard Pike 

****************

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

In a message dated 1/23/2012 6:27:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  richard(at)bcchapel.org writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		     Well, I got a reply. Not sure if it makes sense, or even if I'm    satisfied with it, but here it is. His reply is first, followed by the    question I had asked

    

    

   Well Mr Pike,

    

   It sounds a bit like you are between a rock and a hard    place.  No way to beat the system.  Just be happy you got an    answer.

    

   Bill    Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive

	


 [quote][b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Richard,



Thanks for posting the response. Essentially, there is no such thing as a "renewal". In all cases, it is like a new owner registering it for the first time. It is wrong for the FAA to call it a renewal if it is treated like a new registration but that is far from the worst thing about the FAA, so I'm not going to bother trying to change their minds.



I received my new registration in about two weeks from the time I did the process on-line. This tells me that in the future, I can safely wait until the first of the month in which the old one expires before re-registering on-line. So, knowing this, we can still get our full three years, unless they start slowing down the on-line re-registration process.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

vincenic1(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

Hi Fellow Kolbers,

     

     I recently received the notice to renew my aircraft registration.  I     chose to do it on-line and completed it in January rather than the     last possible month of June.  I, like others, received a     registration for 3 years from January, not June.  The following is     the reply from the FAA and below it my question to them.

     

     Vince Nicely

     

     

            Greetings:

        

       Aircraft are required to be re-registered by the end of the         re-registration period or they will expire and the airraft is         not eligible for operation.  It is the descretion of the         owner to turn in the re-registration form.  However, the         Registry does not guarantee the paperwork will be worked by         the end of the re-registration period.  There is no penalty         because you re-registered your aircraft on time.          Re-Registrations are valid for three years from the last day of         the month the aircraft was registered in.

        

       Thank you.

        

       LT

       

       -----vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com wrote: -----

         

               	  Quote: 	
		  To: 9-AMC-AFS750-Aircraft/AMC/FAA(at)FAA

         From: vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com (vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com)

         Date: 01/23/2012 04:31PM

         Subject: N-Number Renewal - Problem

         

         Subject: Problem

           Name: Vincent Nicely

           E-Mail Address: vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com (vincenic1(at)embarqmail.com)

           Phone: 423-288-4580

           Application: N-Number Renewal

           Comments:  Expiration notice said N2811A registration expired           June 30,2012.  I renewed registration when I got the notice so           as not to forget.  My new registration expires Jan 31, 2015           and not June 30, 2015 as I expected.  I thought I renewed for           three years from date of expiration.  Why should I get a           penalty for renewing early??

           

           Thanks for your reply.

           Vince Nicely 

           

         	
     

      [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

What we need to find out is "How do I renew? Not re-register, but renew?"

Their web page -  http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/ - half way down says "Aircraft registration issued under re-registration expires three years after the last day of the month in which it is issued.



Aircraft registration issued due to renewal expires three years from the expiration date of the previous certificate."



But there is no option to renew, only to re-register, and they are treating everything as a re-registration. So how do we renew and get three years from the expiry date of the current registration?



Obviously you can send it in to get there at the first of the month that the current registration expires, and according to the bureaucrats, maybe not have it meet the cutoff date, but it ticks me off that yet another branch of the government is playing games to jerk us around.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

On 01/26/2012 01:21 PM, Richard Pike wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 What we need to find out is "How do I renew? Not re-register, but renew?"

 Their web page -  http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/ - half way down says "Aircraft registration issued under re-registration expires three years after the last day of the month in which it is issued.



 Aircraft registration issued due to renewal expires three years from the expiration date of the previous certificate."



 But there is no option to renew, only to re-register, and they are treating everything as a re-registration. So how do we renew and get three years from the expiry date of the current registration?



 Obviously you can send it in to get there at the first of the month that the current registration expires, and according to the bureaucrats, maybe not have it meet the cutoff date, but it ticks me off that yet another branch of the government is playing games to jerk us around.



 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 Hebrews 11:1

Remember the old saw, "Never assume a conspiracy when incompetence will do".
	




Odds are high that there just wasn't a committee formed to address that 

little detail.



Charlie

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

...Odds are high that there just wasn't a committee formed to address that little detail. ...

OR There WAS a committee formed and they figured out a way to gouge us .



I doubt this was a conspiracy; as has been said incompetence is a much simpler explanation.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

OK....



So are we just going to trade comments? I sent a E-Mail but only got a form letter response with a link to their web site.

Does anyone have a E-Mail address to someone that can/will fix it? How about our politicians?

 



I'm not going to send my "re-registration" in till I get my 2nd warning letter 60 days before it expires. Yes I know I will risk their wrath. 

Also I just renewed my annual state aircraft registration in Michigan. Seems like they could talk to the states. They wouldn't get away with this with automobiles there would be too many.

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC



 On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>

 

 ..Odds are high that there just wasn't a committee formed to address that little detail. ...

 

 

 OR There WAS a committee formed and they figured out a way to gouge us .

 

 I doubt this was a conspiracy; as has been said incompetence is a much simpler explanation.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo, NY (9G0)

 Kolb Slingshot SS-021

 Jabiru 2200A #1574

 Tennessee Prop 64x32

 

 Truth is what stands the test of experience.

 - Albert Einstein

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364934#364934

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

A paper malfunction does not cause an airplane to fall out of the sky.



Best laugh of the day:

â€œOr they [FAA] could surprise us and recognize their error, and correct it â€¦,â€



â€œI doubt this was a conspiracy; as has been said incompetence is a much simpler explanation.â€   



Last quote â€˜bout sums it up.  Thanks, Thom.

_________________
Jerry King

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