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J9-G1 prop problem

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Pete Fowler

Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Had a problem this weekend at an airshow. The prop control stopped working. What happened was that at high MP, the prop started overspeeding so I pulled the prop lever and power and got an RPM and MP that allowed a safe landing.



We replaced the prop governor and I went and did a test flight and other than only getting about 2150 rpm (we guessed at the adjustment) it worked great.



So I started the airshow and the first time I pulled the power while doing a rejoin, the prop started overspeeding same as the previous day. It was totally unresponsive to the prop control and I orbited for altitude while assessing and once I'd reached a good glide altitude to the runway I tried cycling the prop and it "came back to life" and was able to be adjusted and was responsive (held RPM at different MP).



Once I got to my home airport, I tried adjusting it while overhead and it completely stopped working again (I had to reduce MP to keep the RPM safe). Landed safely and tried cycling it on the ground and it worked but the prop control lever was "sticky". 



Note that in all our examination and work on the governor, the linkage was and is free and correct and there was resistance on the governor. I assume it's a problem in the prop hub itself but does anyone have any ideas?

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Pete;



Check to see if the prop control copper sleeve is moving with the cable.  It 

should be clamped solid about 10" or so left of the governor.



Walt



---

pilotdog57(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

I think prop hub. When was it last overhauled?

DZ



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 8, 2012, at 6:17 PM, "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1(at)cox.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Had a problem this weekend at an airshow. The prop control stopped working. What happened was that at high MP, the prop started overspeeding so I pulled the prop lever and power and got an RPM and MP that allowed a safe landing.

 

 We replaced the prop governor and I went and did a test flight and other than only getting about 2150 rpm (we guessed at the adjustment) it worked great.

 

 So I started the airshow and the first time I pulled the power while doing a rejoin, the prop started overspeeding same as the previous day. It was totally unresponsive to the prop control and I orbited for altitude while assessing and once I'd reached a good glide altitude to the runway I tried cycling the prop and it "came back to life" and was able to be adjusted and was responsive (held RPM at different MP).

 

 Once I got to my home airport, I tried adjusting it while overhead and it completely stopped working again (I had to reduce MP to keep the RPM safe). Landed safely and tried cycling it on the ground and it worked but the prop control lever was "sticky". 

 

 Note that in all our examination and work on the governor, the linkage was and is free and correct and there was resistance on the governor. I assume it's a problem in the prop hub itself but does anyone have any ideas?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362796#362796

Pete Fowler

Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: J9-G1 prop problem

Doug, you called it. It was the prop hub. Though the linkage did have some issues, as soon as we pulled the dome and oil piston, the blades wouldn't turn with all my weight on them (they're supposed to turn by hand easily at that point).

pilotdog57(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Even those things need an overhaul now and then....I'll bet it was way overdue by time.

That old grease turned into something else. Vladimir is expert in servicing these things if you do not want a traditional prop shop. Most of the seals are the same as V -530 Russki prop.



DZ



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 15, 2012, at 6:54 PM, "Pete Fowler" <pfdesign1(at)cox.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Doug, you called it. It was the prop hub. Though the linkage did have some issues, as soon as we pulled the dome and oil piston, the blades wouldn't turn with all my weight on them (they're supposed to turn by hand easily at that point).

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363936#363936

Pete Fowler

Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:47 am Post subject: Re: J9-G1 prop problem

After thoroughly cleaning the hub, the issue was that it still had the Chinese grease. I can't believe someone installed a prop hub without cleaning and changing the grease to Aeroshell 5 but that's what happened. Works better than new now that it's all cleaned, re-greased and I put new seals in while I had it apart.



If you have one of these hubs (Yak or CJ) and aren't 100% sure that it has U.S. grease, and it's not getting cleaned, inspected and redone every year during your conditionals...you should do it NOW.



Two guys literally could not move the prop with the piston removed with that grease in there.

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Every Year? Rebuild the prop? Especially after cleaning it completely and re assembling with US grease along with new seals.

Doc

--

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Every Year? Rebuild the prop? Especially after cleaning it completely and re assembling with US grease along with new seals.


	


I thought he was just suggesting cleaning it and replacing the grease

on an annual basis. I agree that might be overkill but I don't think

it would be a bad thing.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Greasing the hub means pulling the blades out of the hub, which also

means re-indexing the blades when you put them back in.  It also means

replacing all the seals.  



Personally, if my prop moves freely and does not leak oil or grease, I

don't pull the blades out every year just to put new grease in.

Different story if they are spewing grease out of the seals and all over

the blades!  



I'll probably be shot at sun-rise for admitting that.    But that is

just me making a risk versus value assessment.  To each his own.   



Mark Bitterlich 



p.s.  On the same note: Both mags have grease inside their gear

reduction assembly.  Which probably means that we should ........  ??

(!!)  

--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Actually you don't have to pull the blades to clean and grease the 

bearings.  The only time one needs to pull the blades is to 1) replace 

the seals inside the large castellated nuts by removing the 

counterweight collars and then sliding the large castellated nuts out 

over the opening or 2) to replace the blades or remove them to have them 

refinished.



To grease the hub all one has to do is remove the large castellated nut 

locking tab in the front of the hub and unscrew the large castellated 

nut.  This will expose the inner bearing and race, the slider.  The 

outer bearing will be accessible on the blade assembly that is removed 

as an assembly when you unscrew the large castellated nut.  Of course 

the prop hub dome and piston must be removed first.



If there are weights mounted on the large castellated nuts, be certain 

to mark them and their position in relation to the hub before removing them.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/23/2012 1:58 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 

64E wrote:

[quote] 



 Greasing the hub means pulling the blades out of the hub, which also

 means re-indexing the blades when you put them back in.  It also means

 replacing all the seals.



 Personally, if my prop moves freely and does not leak oil or grease, I

 don't pull the blades out every year just to put new grease in.

 Different story if they are spewing grease out of the seals and all over

 the blades!



 I'll probably be shot at sun-rise for admitting that.    But that is

 just me making a risk versus value assessment.  To each his own.



 Mark Bitterlich



 p.s.  On the same note: Both mags have grease inside their gear

 reduction assembly.  Which probably means that we should ........  ??

 (!!)

 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

BTW, removing the entire blade assembly as mentioned does not affect the 

blades angles since the counterweight collar is not loosened as it would 

be to unscrew a blade.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/23/2012 2:19 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

[quote] 

 <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



 Actually you don't have to pull the blades to clean and grease the 

 bearings.  The only time one needs to pull the blades is to 1) replace 

 the seals inside the large castellated nuts by removing the 

 counterweight collars and then sliding the large castellated nuts out 

 over the opening or 2) to replace the blades or remove them to have 

 them refinished.



 To grease the hub all one has to do is remove the large castellated 

 nut locking tab in the front of the hub and unscrew the large 

 castellated nut.  This will expose the inner bearing and race, the 

 slider.  The outer bearing will be accessible on the blade assembly 

 that is removed as an assembly when you unscrew the large castellated 

 nut.  Of course the prop hub dome and piston must be removed first.



 If there are weights mounted on the large castellated nuts, be certain 

 to mark them and their position in relation to the hub before removing 

 them.



 Dennis



 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-6263

 334-546-8182 (cell)

 Skype: Yakguy1

 www.yak-52.com

 On 1/23/2012 1:58 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 

 64E wrote:

> 

> Point, MALS-14 64E"<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

>

> Greasing the hub means pulling the blades out of the hub, which also

> means re-indexing the blades when you put them back in.  It also means

> replacing all the seals.

>

> Personally, if my prop moves freely and does not leak oil or grease, I

> don't pull the blades out every year just to put new grease in.

> Different story if they are spewing grease out of the seals and all over

> the blades!

>

> I'll probably be shot at sun-rise for admitting that.    But that is

> just me making a risk versus value assessment.  To each his own.

>

> Mark Bitterlich

>

> p.s.  On the same note: Both mags have grease inside their gear

> reduction assembly.  Which probably means that we should ........  ??

> (!!)

> --

N13472(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

The Chinese manual say's to pack some grease on the inside of the hub on the

bearing area. As there are no inside

seals centrifugal force will push / pull the grease into the bearing race

area. When I do this to mine I get a small amount

of grease coming out past the seals for the next couple of flights. 



Tom Elliott

CJ-6A NX63727

777 Quartz Ave

PMB 7004

Sandy Valley NV

89019

Cell 702-595-2680



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Alot of extra work for little return. If memory serves correct since I don't have my maint. manual at hand currently but...200 hours comes to mind for the Yak. I could be wrong. Maybe different for the CJ.

Doc

--

brian(at)lloyd.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Alot of extra work for little return. If memory serves correct since I don't have my maint. manual at hand currently but...200 hours comes to mind for the Yak. I could be wrong. Maybe different for the CJ.


	


You don't fly your airplane 200 hours per year? I know that when I had

my (flying) CJ I certainly did.



-- 

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

Pete Fowler

Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Posts: 76
Location: California

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: J9-G1 prop problem

I'm interested in what material the bushing inside the hub nut was. It looked like plastic or wood or something but that was some funkey purple plastic!

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

I stand corrected. 

 

Thank you Dennis. 

 

Mark

 

p.s.  I greased my prop 5 years ago and replaced the prop blade seals at the same time.  (They were leaking grease).  Since then I have not done anything with the prop except inspect it carefully before and after every flight).  I encourage everyone to make their own decisions. 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of A. Dennis Savarese

Sent: Mon 1/23/2012 3:19 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: J9-G1 prop problem






Actually you don't have to pull the blades to clean and grease the

bearings.  The only time one needs to pull the blades is to 1) replace

the seals inside the large castellated nuts by removing the

counterweight collars and then sliding the large castellated nuts out

over the opening or 2) to replace the blades or remove them to have them

refinished.



To grease the hub all one has to do is remove the large castellated nut

locking tab in the front of the hub and unscrew the large castellated

nut.  This will expose the inner bearing and race, the slider.  The

outer bearing will be accessible on the blade assembly that is removed

as an assembly when you unscrew the large castellated nut.  Of course

the prop hub dome and piston must be removed first.



If there are weights mounted on the large castellated nuts, be certain

to mark them and their position in relation to the hub before removing them.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/23/2012 1:58 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14

64E wrote:

[quote] 



 Greasing the hub means pulling the blades out of the hub, which also

 means re-indexing the blades when you put them back in.  It also means

 replacing all the seals.



 Personally, if my prop moves freely and does not leak oil or grease, I

 don't pull the blades out every year just to put new grease in.

 Different story if they are spewing grease out of the seals and all over

 the blades!



 I'll probably be shot at sun-rise for admitting that.    But that is

 just me making a risk versus value assessment.  To each his own.



 Mark Bitterlich



 p.s.  On the same note: Both mags have grease inside their gear

 reduction assembly.  Which probably means that we should ........  ??

 (!!)

 --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

I unscrewed the blades. 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of A. Dennis Savarese

Sent: Mon 1/23/2012 3:29 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: J9-G1 prop problem






BTW, removing the entire blade assembly as mentioned does not affect the

blades angles since the counterweight collar is not loosened as it would

be to unscrew a blade.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com

On 1/23/2012 2:19 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:

[quote] 

 <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



 Actually you don't have to pull the blades to clean and grease the

 bearings.  The only time one needs to pull the blades is to 1) replace

 the seals inside the large castellated nuts by removing the

 counterweight collars and then sliding the large castellated nuts out

 over the opening or 2) to replace the blades or remove them to have

 them refinished.



 To grease the hub all one has to do is remove the large castellated

 nut locking tab in the front of the hub and unscrew the large

 castellated nut.  This will expose the inner bearing and race, the

 slider.  The outer bearing will be accessible on the blade assembly

 that is removed as an assembly when you unscrew the large castellated

 nut.  Of course the prop hub dome and piston must be removed first.



 If there are weights mounted on the large castellated nuts, be certain

 to mark them and their position in relation to the hub before removing

 them.



 Dennis



 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-285-6263

 334-546-8182 (cell)

 Skype: Yakguy1

 www.yak-52.com

 On 1/23/2012 1:58 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14

 64E wrote:

> 

> Point, MALS-14 64E"<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

>

> Greasing the hub means pulling the blades out of the hub, which also

> means re-indexing the blades when you put them back in.  It also means

> replacing all the seals.

>

> Personally, if my prop moves freely and does not leak oil or grease, I

> don't pull the blades out every year just to put new grease in.

> Different story if they are spewing grease out of the seals and all over

> the blades!

>

> I'll probably be shot at sun-rise for admitting that.    But that is

> just me making a risk versus value assessment.  To each his own.

>

> Mark Bitterlich

>

> p.s.  On the same note: Both mags have grease inside their gear

> reduction assembly.  Which probably means that we should ........  ??

> (!!)

> --

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

I don't either Brian.   About 100 hours per year for the first couple of years, and now less than that.  

 

Of course I have two airplanes to fly and they both have been flying constantly since I purchased them.  No down time.   

 

Mark

 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Brian Lloyd

Sent: Mon 1/23/2012 6:02 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: J9-G1 prop problem






On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Roger Kemp <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Alot of extra work for little return. If memory serves correct since I don't have my maint. manual at hand currently but...200 hours comes to mind for the Yak. I could be wrong. Maybe different for the CJ.


	


You don't fly your airplane 200 hours per year? I know that when I had

my (flying) CJ I certainly did.



--

Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL

3191 Western Dr.

Cameron Park, CA 95682

brian(at)lloyd.com

+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)

+1.916.877.5067 (USA)

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: J9-G1 prop problem

Nay.

Doc

--

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