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FAA registration renewal
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: FAA registration renewal

I'm not going to send my "re-registration" in till I get my 2nd warning  letter 60 days before it expires. Yes I know I will risk their  wrath. 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 i know,, i know,, it is the principle of the  thing.......    but $5.00 every 36 months  is $0.14 per  month rounded  up to the nearest penny.    or $5.00 every 32  months   is ,,,   $0.16  per month rounded up to  the nearest penny..    how much do you spend on hanger  rent,,,  gas,, oil,, properyt tax,,  spark plugs,,  etc..   surely $0.02 cents a month is not cost prohibitive.

  

 to be exact..  cost of $5.00 split  over

  

 32 months    .15625

 36 months     .1388888888

 difference     .0173611111 per  month

 for 1  yr          .2083333333

 for 3 years    .625

  

  

 buck up and lets fly.

  

 boyd young

 mkIII Utah



   [quote][b]

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Arksey(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

I would think in this day and age we could start a petition using the  internet that we could sign and send on to anyone willing to listen...flying  weather in michigan is not good for ski's    bare ground  here...jswan

  

 Jim Swan Kolb  Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi 48827 ph 517-663-8488  GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825   

  In a message dated 1/27/2012 10:15:44 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  neilsenrm(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  OK....    



   So are we just going to trade comments? I sent a E-Mail but only got a    form letter response with a link to their web site.

   



   Does anyone have a E-Mail address to someone that can/will fix it? How    about our politicians?

   



   I'm not going to send my "re-registration" in till I get my 2nd warning    letter 60 days before it expires. Yes I know I will risk their    wrath. 

   



   Also I just renewed my annual state aircraft registration in Michigan.    Seems like they could talk to the states. They wouldn't get away with this    with automobiles there would be too many.

   



   Rick Neilsen

   Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

   

   On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



...Odds      are high that there just wasn't a committee formed to address that little      detail. ...

OR There WAS a committee formed and they figured out      a way to gouge us .



I doubt this was a conspiracy; as has been      said incompetence is a much simpler explanation.



--------

Thom      Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A      #1574

Tennessee Prop 64x32



Truth is what stands the test of      experience.

- Albert Einstein





Read this topic online      here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364934#364934



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jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: FAA registration renewal

Gents,

 

 I read this list because I built a Firestar I many years ago and still love Kolbs even though I don't have one at present.  I do have another plane and this string on the re-registration bugs me as much as you.  So I asked one of my good friends at the FAA to get the name of the individual responsible for this process (the "stuckee").  His name is John Bent at the FAA registry.  Email is john.g.bent(at)faa.gov and his phone number is 405-954-4331.  He is just one guy in the bureaucracy so don't get mad, just express your frustration and hopefully he can fix the system.

 

 

  

     

  

     

  

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

jvanlaak,



Thanks for the contact information. I sent Mr. Bent and email as follows:



Mr. Bent,

In early January, I received the FAA notice that the registration on my airplane (N64086) would expire on June 30, 2012. So that I would not forget to do the RENEWAL before that deadline, I went on-line and went through the process of RENEWING my registration for an additional three years; at least that is what I thought I was doing. About two weeks later (quick service, thank you) I received my new registration certificate but was aghast to see that the new one is show to expire Jan 31, 2015 instead of June 30, 2015.



Why did I not get a full three year extension on my RENEWAL. This was NOT a new registration which starts the three year clock, but a RENEWAL. I went through the on-line process early to avoid forgetting to do it later. For this it seems I was penalized 5 months. It is a non-event financially but the rule says that the registration must be RENEWED (extended) every three years, not re-registered, as if it was a new owner.



I suspect this was a programing error if this happens only on-line. In any case, please rectify this short-change or re-write the rule and guidance so that we know what to expect. 



I would appreciate a response regarding what your plans are for correcting this.



Sincerely,

Thomas R Riddle

N64086

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Tom McCarthy

Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Location: 61C

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:35 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Guys



This one may be worth fighting for.  I sat through a FAA seminar when this renewal first started and it was clearly stated that the $5.00 was for the initial renewal only, and that the "real" renewal cost was yet to be determined.  Their speculation was it would be between $50.00 and $250.00.  Please do not shoot the messenger.

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_________________
Tom McCarthy
N514TM Zenith 601HD
N414TM Kolb FireStar 1
N863GB Kolb Slingshot

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: Re: FAA registration renewal

Fellow Kolbers,



The Mr. Bent I sent my email to, about the re-registration vs renewal issue, forwarded my email to another FAA person. I got a response, long and convoluted, from this person, which follows my synopsis.



My Synopsis:

The FIRST TIME we send in a "renewal" on the new system will result in a re-registration date at the end of the month in which they receive and act on the request. Afterwards, all subsequent renewals (on time or early) will receive the full 3 three years. Their rationale for this is to redistribute the due dates more evenly across the calendar year to preclude their work from bunching up. The only reason it bunches up is because they unnecessarily (in my opinion) created these 3 month groups, in which bunches of aircraft come due for regregistration/renewal at the same time. This was not necessary. All they had to do was to divide the due dates into months instead of quarters. But because they divided into quarter groups, they caused the bunching up of their work load. So, bottom line is that this "screw the aircraft owner" reregistration vs renewal is supposed to happen only once per registration. At least that is my interpretation of the following:

FAA'S RESPONSE:

 I work in the Aircraft Registration office (Registry) and was part of

     the group that put re-registration and renewal together.  I've been

     asked to reply to your question.



     The use of a current date from which to count your re-registration

     date from was stated in the final Rulemaking and has been repeated in

     our supporting literature. With more than half the expected

     re-registration certificates already issued, no change in the present

     process is under consideration.  I can explain why we set things up

     to work as they do, and perhaps try to re-frame the  view regarding

     registration months lost due to early re-registration.



     Since new registration has to be issued and delivered before the old

     certificates expire for re-registration and renewal to work, we

     recognized the importance of a smooth and even work flow from the

     start.  With re-registration expirations set to expire quarterly, if

     we issued re-registration certificates to expire on the third

     anniversary of their re-registration expiration date,  we would have

     built quarterly bulges into our future workloads. These bulges would

     cause backlogs that could result in delayed delivery of future

     renewal registration certificates.  By issuing re-registration

     certificates that expire three years from the month in which they are

     issued, we set up our future workload to fall more evenly from month

     to month.  The other aircraft owners in your re-registration group

     should apply and get dates from January through April if they apply

     as scheduled.  The real deadline to avoid grounding is April 30, so

     the possible spread is 3 months.  A few who forget, play the game or

     have a problem will get dates in May or June, and some will even get

     dates after they expire.  The renewal certificates that will be

     issued during future cycles are set up to expire on the same three

     year anniversary date.  During renewal, no matter when you make your

     application, your new certificate will receive an expiration date of

     January 31.  Alternate schedules may have avoided the impression that

     early applicants loose a few months of registration, but they would

     have been more difficult to communicate and execute successfully.

     The group benefits because a cause for future delays has been

     eliminated.  You benefit by knowing already that you are good to go.

     Early application gives both of us time to recover from unforeseen

     errors. There were no delaying errors for us to recover from in this

     case, but had there been, we would have had plenty of time to fix

     things.



     The months you see as missing were not subtracted from your new

     registration time, they came off of your old registration certificate

     due to the required changes. On August 27, 2009, you were issued a

     certificate of registration that, unlike almost any other

     registration for property in the world, was good as long as you lived

     until you sold the aircraft, removed it permanently from service, or

     something happened that would cause the FAA to revoke it, all that

     for the all but token charge of $5.00.  To keep this. aircraft owners

     as a group only had to keep their addresses updated, report sales,

     register promptly after purchasing, and tell us when the aircraft had

     finally left service for good.  Life has too many tricks to allow

     this large a group to meet that standard.  We expect that as many as

     111,000 aircraft will drop off the register of 360,000 aircraft

     because they are not there to make application. Long before that you

     first registered, the concerns of law enforcement about aircraft use

     in drug smuggling and against our national security combined with the

     growing ability of computers to make aircraft registration data

     immediately available for both reference and analysis had been

     raising requirements for more accurate and actionable aircraft

     registration records.  In July of 2010, the final approvals finally

     fell into place and the new rules went into effect for the

     re-registration of existing aircraft to clean up existing errors, and

     the renewal of Aircraft registration every third year to keep future

     errors from piling up.  Re-registration scheduled your existing

     registration to end when you made application, and told you - you

     should apply during February, March or April of 2011.  You filed

     promptly and now have a certificate that is good for the next three

     years,  and your next, a renewal certificate, will be good for three

     years after this one expires.



     In short; the changes, the lost registration time, and the costs came

     about as part of re-registration, which we had to do so we could do

     our job well enough to support other parts of the government to do

     their jobs, big and small, as best as they can.  We worked hard to

     find the combination of process steps that would as a group deliver

     the least disruption for those affected.  So far, it seems things are

     working.  Any applicant that has made a good application during their

     assigned three month window has been their registration certificate

     with time to arrive before their old certificate expired.



     Thank you for filing early.  It gave us time to take care of you if

     some thing went wrong.  Since it went well it gave us extra time to

     help others who needed assistance.



     I hope I made some sense out of this that is helpful to you.  Feel

     free to give me a call if in some way you feel this was not

     responsive.



     Jerry Super

     Program Analyst

     Aircraft Registration Branch. AFS-751

     405-954-7040

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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