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uvtreith(at)t-online.de
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:03 am Post subject: AW: AW: Deformation of canopy |
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Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! 
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
[img]cid:image001.gif(at)01CCE32C.21A4DAE0[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
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uvtreith(at)t-online.de
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:31 am Post subject: AW: AW: Deformation of canopy |
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Hi Tim,
I will use the pippin for secure the airplane on the ground.
On my side I will use a key lock.
Thanks for that advise.
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von houlihan
Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Februar 2012 11:57
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
[img]%20[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: AW: AW: Deformation of canopy |
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Hi Bruno,
there is even more to think:
When green on, you know the bolts are in AND whole system is operational.
If green (should be red then!) off means bolts are in, how can you be pretty sure system is ok? If you loose your microswitch or led or fuse your greens are off and you think bolts are in but maybe they are not. Cannot be sure!
***
I give you an example:
We have a personal well water in our home. Sometimes in the spring time the water level goes too low and there is a risk we run out of water. That is really awful.
That is why I built a warning system like this:
1) We see two blue high bright leds in the house when we have water more than enough.
2) We see only one blue led when there is still water but not so much = we have to save it, no jacuzzi any more!
3) We see no leds at all when we have less than 500 litres water which is a critical amount for us.
So, no led means save water OR system is somehow broken. Problems anyway.
System cannot jam (there are electrodes in the well) – blue led meas surely we have weter – they cannot light if the electrodes are not in water.
***
Same w Europa´s doors and gears and similar – better to have indication when all is ok.
If you really wanna play w gizmos put greens when bolts are closed, orange when open and reds + bell when open AND airborne or gear retracted (if you have!). That what I did...fool proof.
Cheers, Raimo
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:59 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)!
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
[img]cid:E97DA5EDA41C47FFAE9AA174711F7FB5(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: AW: AW: Deformation of canopy |
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|
On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:06 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
| Quote: | | If green (should be red then!) off means bolts are in, how can you be pretty sure system is ok? If you loose your microswitch or led or fuse your greens are off and you think bolts are in but maybe they are not. |
All,
I have followed this thread with interest as it seems to embody the tension between keeping things simple on one hand and fitting out our planes sufficiently to ensure safe flight on the other.
I've paid some attention to the issue of ensuring the rear shoot-bolts engage because when fitting the doors, I found that the rear portion of the door seemed to spring outward just enough for the rear shoot-bolts to miss the aluminum tubing which prevented proper closure...not good!
After sitting in the left seat...twisting my body and reaching about to determine where I could reach in order to pull in the aft portion of the door prior to closing the lever and engaging the shoot-bolts...I installed a simple tab on the window frames (both port and stbd) which I could grip and pull inward. One thing I noticed while checking out my little ergonomics exercise was that I found that I could not feel whether or not the shoot-bolts were properly engaged or not, nor could I readily see likewise. The fundemental idea I took away from these exercises was that it was essential to pull the rear portion of the window/door inward BEFORE moving the latching handle forward.
As luck would have it, after installing the plexiglas windows, I found that the additional weight completely eliminates the tendency for the rear portion of the window/door to spring outward and for the shoot-bolts to not engage; however, I have not as yet fitted the tubular rubber seal...so perhaps the conditions may change.
My hunch at this point is that my checklist MUST include an item stating: PULL DOOR INWARD BEFORE LATCHING.
For the moment, I'm content with that and will not add the additional complexity of a warning light system. I've had a look at about 20 Europas and, I believe, have yet to see a microswitch/LED installation...I'm wondering how common are such installations.
Fred
A194
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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