 |
Matronics Email Lists Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
|
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Amen to this! I heard of an RV-6 that was made retractable. It weighted a
lot more, so had less usefull load, cost a TON more to make, took a LOT
longer, and added as much a 6kts to cruise. Go ahead, but don't expect a
lot to follow. Van's has a great design. Oh yeah, and expect the insurance
to be a LOT higher.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Tim(at)MyRV10.com Guest
|
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
I just finished an article in Flying Magazine the other day.
They had some guy who is related to insuring cessnas or
something who stated that the cost of a 182RG versus
an ordinary 182 was something like double the insurance
cost, or maybe it was 4 times the cost. The 182 is
*kind of* comparable to the RV-10. Imagine $6900 insurance
on your new RV-10. Or, if it was 4 times.....$13,800.
Wish I could remember, but since it was about a Cessna
I didn't pay as much attention.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
[quote]
Amen to this! I heard of an RV-6 that was made retractable. It weighted a
lot more, so had less usefull load, cost a TON more to make, took a LOT
longer, and added as much a 6kts to cruise. Go ahead, but don't expect a
lot to follow. Van's has a great design. Oh yeah, and expect the insurance
to be a LOT higher.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
RobHickman(at)aol.com Guest
|
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
My neighbor just insured his Cessna 210 with retracts - - $2,400 a year for $100,000 Hull
He has 800 hours and VFR only
Rob Hickman
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
pioneer(at)choiceonemail. Guest
|
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
I fly both an Archer and Piper Arrow. Annual insurance on the Archer is
$1200, on the Arrow it is $2000.
Bruce Case #40446
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
av8or(at)cox.net Guest
|
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
This is an interesting thread, but there may be one flaw in the assumptions.....namely that you could get insurance!
John
#40262
[quote] ---
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dmasys(at)cox.net Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
---- David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> wrote:
Quote: | Don't get me wrong, the
Bonanza is an awesome airplane, but less complexity and similar
performance are very attractive to me now.
|
Had a fun experience last weekend. Flew the -7A to Columbus Ohio (CMH) and landed at Lane Aviation, where there were acres of Bonanzas and Barons on the ramp, and a one day Beechcraft pilot proficiency refresher course in progress. A couple of the Beech drivers struck up a conversation with me about that 'cute little homebuilt". They were more or less in gloat mode until I told them that cute little homebuilt had a 75% cruise of 175kts and a service ceiling of 25,000 feet on 11 gph. Got very quiet, except for a quietly uttered 'cripes!'.
-Dan Masys
#40448 wiring & systems installation
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jjessen
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 285 Location: OR
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Bonanza driver at my field continues to mutter something about "how long
would it take me to build a 10?" Yeah, sometimes it's always greener in the
other fella's pasture. If someone came up to me and said he'd gladly sell
his pristine 33A to me for what I'm likely to put into the 10, it's be a
hard choice to turn him down. A beautiful airplane.
John J
do not archive
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:13 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Dan, has anyone confirmed the service ceiling of 25,000 with a fuel burn
of 11gph in a flying RV-10?
John
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dmasys(at)cox.net Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
---- John Jessen <jjessen(at)rcn.com> wrote:
Quote: | If someone came up to me and said he'd gladly sell
his pristine 33A to me for what I'm likely to put into the 10, it's be a
hard choice to turn him down. A beautiful airplane.
|
A 33A I could walk away from. An A-36 for the price of an RV-10, now that would be a conversation . But even then, the balance tips in favor of the homebuilt in my mind due to that FAA repairman's card you're going to have in your pocket after you get this puppy airborne. It'll always be a project, and you can put as much or as little time and money into it as you like, without worrying every year about a multi-kilobucks surprise at an annual inspection. Playing with your airplane includes playing with its systems configurations, adding new gadgets, etc. In that regard it is a much better boy toy than any spam can.
-Dan Masys
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dmasys(at)cox.net Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Sorry, the numbers in my message are for my 200hp RV-7A, and the 11 gph goes with the 75% power setting and 175kts, not with the 25K ceiling. Because I don't have a pressure mask on my O2 system, I have only flown it to 17.5K but it was still climbing at about 500 fpm at that altitude. Full throttle, best power mixture up there gives an indicated airspeed of about 125kts in my plane, roughly corresponding to 45-40% power, and 7-8 gph. Fuel flows and power levels would be correspondingly lower in the 20's.
-Dan Masys
---- "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
[quote]
Dan, has anyone confirmed the service ceiling of 25,000 with a fuel burn
of 11gph in a flying RV-10?
John
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jjessen
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 285 Location: OR
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Agreed, but when I flew that 33A, it sure flew solid. No, in reality, I
wouldn't bite. I'm looking forward to my 10. I'm looking forward to being
able to working on it, pampering it, making it better and better. But, a
Bonanza is a very good "spam" can.
John J
do not archive and back to work!
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Realistic service ceiling is about 18,000. I have it on "good authority"
that it will make it to 21,000 at near gross weight, but it sure doesn't
like flying up there. At 18,000, 185mph TAS, 6.5gph LOP. No, I don't have
info on MP or RPM, but the throttle is always all the way in when flying
high.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
--
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:58:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjessen(at)rcn.com writes:
Quote: | pristine 33A to me for what I'm likely to put into the 10, it's be a
hard choice to turn him down. A beautiful airplane |
John until the first time you needed to buy a part or a decal from the factory...yipes...expensive stuff...
Patrick
do not achive
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jjessen
Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 285 Location: OR
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Yeah, that's one major reason he's drooling over the thought of a 10. No, Bonanza's are wonderful, as are the Cirrus and Columbia airplanes. But, for a few years dedicated labor, one can have a craft that more than meets my criteria, a large part of which is self maintenance. Wing loading on the Bonanza makes them a much more enjoyable ride in the bump and grind. Other than that, one can have as much speed, more room, and lower costs.
John J
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:15 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:58:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjessen(at)rcn.com writes:
Quote: | pristine 33A to me for what I'm likely to put into the 10, it's be a
hard choice to turn him down. A beautiful airplane |
John until the first time you needed to buy a part or a decal from the factory...yipes...expensive stuff...
Patrick
do not achive
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Robin Marks

Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 24 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Quote: | Wing loading on the Bonanza makes them a much more enjoyable ride in the bump and grind. Other than that, one can have as much speed, more room, and lower costs.
|
Don’t forget the ability to put exactly what electronics you wish in your -10 to take advantage of the latest in technology which I am convinced will make us safer pilots with respect to weather, traffic, detailed GPS navigation, terrain etc. Don’t take this the wrong way, I love my Bonanza but the thought of a certified panel upgrade to state of the art displays sends chills down my bankers spine. Also note a late model Bonanza is still 20 years old.
Now back to the original reason for this post; I have personally taken a solemn pledge to never again purchase a retract (unless one winks at me extra sexy like). The cost of gear maintenance can come close to matching the entire balance of aircraft maintenance before considering the weight consequence or insurance. With today’s modern fairings the drag penalty is relatively small even for guys like me with the extra weenie wheel.
In my limited piloting experience (6 planes) I believe performance, safety, comfort and VALUE are all on the side of experimental builders (assuming one follows the plans).
Robin
do not achive
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________ RV-4 Sold
RV-6A 0-360 - C/S Flying |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
toaster73(at)earthlink.ne Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Slight fault there... Bonanza'a aren't spam cans; just RV-10's produced in
mass.
-Chris L.
#40072
former C-35 driver
do not archive
---
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
In a message dated 5/25/06 10:19:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, toaster73(at)earthlink.net writes:
Quote: | Bonanza'a aren't spam cans |
Got to love an ol Bo driver...too bad they eat so much gas compared to a nice Mooney...sparks flying...!!! LOL
Patrick
do not archive
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jhstarn(at)verizon.net Guest
|
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
I usta fly with "Bonanza" pilots. Did you just refer to a 33A as a "Bonanza"
?. Last time I did that was about 20 years ago I was flamed in person on all
sides by V-35 Bonanza Pilots.
Just because it was made by Beechcraft doesn't make it a Bonanza or any less
a spam can.
A '59 Chevy 4Dr. Station wagon is not an "Impala" regardless of that the
bean counters at Chevrolet thinks. A "Impala" was built in 1958 and came
ONLY in two models ...2 door hardtop & a 2 door coverable
My, my how times have changed. But words do mean things to some of us.
Don't mean to leave Ford out, look what they produced and called a "Cobra",
YUK. Do Not Archive KABONG.
By the way, Van's has an update on the RVcoupe (RV-12 for those from Yorba
Linda)
---
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
sgesele(at)yahoo.com Guest
|
Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Quote: | Time: 07:29:09 AM PST US
From: Dan Masys <dmasys(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Retractable
<dmasys(at)cox.net>
---- David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com> wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, the
> Bonanza is an awesome airplane, but less
complexity and similar
> performance are very attractive to me now.
Had a fun experience last weekend. Flew the -7A to
Columbus Ohio (CMH) and landed
at Lane Aviation, where there were acres of Bonanzas
and Barons on the ramp,
and a one day Beechcraft pilot proficiency refresher
course in progress. A
couple of the Beech drivers struck up a conversation
with me about that 'cute
little homebuilt". They were more or less in gloat
mode until I told them that
cute little homebuilt had a 75% cruise of 175kts and
a service ceiling of 25,000
feet on 11 gph. Got very quiet, except for a
quietly uttered 'cripes!'.
-Dan Masys
#40448 wiring & systems installation
|
You are entirely too nice and let them off easy. I
would have added:
"BTW, my last annual cost me $35, I had to change the
oil. This year I will not be so lucky. I have to
replace the ELT battery, reline the brakes and I have
a blown nav night. I figure the annual this year will
be a whopping $50 - $60."
You guys probably don't remember, but a while back
(10+ years) someone with a 4 got the brilliant idea of
engineering retracts. The plane cruised slower,
climber slower and took more runway than an equivalent
4. Needless to say, no one has tried to yank the gear
on an RV since.
Do not archive
Scott Gesele
N506RV, Race 53 (RV-6A, 800+ hrs)
N????? (Tom Gesele's RV-10 fuse sitting in my garage)
__________________________________________________
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
3edcft6(at)cox.net Guest
|
Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: Retractable |
|
|
Scott Gesele wrote:
Quote: | You guys probably don't remember, but a while back
(10+ years) someone with a 4 got the brilliant idea of
engineering retracts. The plane cruised slower,
climber slower and took more runway than an equivalent
4. Needless to say, no one has tried to yank the gear
on an RV since.
|
I don't think trying to put retracts on an RV is a good idea, but I
remember reading several reports that said that plane was a fair bit
faster (10 to 15 knots) than a standard 4. I'm sure climb was worse
though. I'm not trying to say that it is in fact that much faster, but
I"m not going to take your word that it was slower either. If someone
wants to try and get details, the tail number in the photo I have of it
is 'C-FGPC' I think it is, or was, in Canada. I found the photos on
the net somewhere and the site didn't have any direct information about
the plane.
do not archive
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
One stop wish list for any gift,
from anywhere, for any occasion!
http://thewishzone.com
| - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|