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cameras and mounting

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Any advice on video or time lapse camera types and mounting on the plane. The Go Pro looks popular and good but far from aerodynamic in shape although it could go in front of the mono outrigger. Taking pictures from the cockpit is frustrating due to the perspex.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Graeme- 

  

John Lawton built a streamlined case and mouted a time lapse on top of his rudder.  The pictures weren't good, they were SPECTACULAR!  You may want to e-mail him for details.  He does not follow Matrinics. 

  

Jim Puglise



 

   

From: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 3:13:45 PM

Subject: cameras and mounting



--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk>



Any advice on video or time lapse camera types and mounting on the plane. The Go Pro looks popular and good but far from aerodynamic in shape although it could go in front of the mono outrigger. Taking pictures from the cockpit is frustrating due to the perspex.



--------

Graeme Bird

G-UMPY

Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W

Newby: 35 hours  

g(at)gdbmk.co.uk





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379718#379718

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

Graeme,



FWIW, I acquired a Go Pro Hero2.  I acquired this primarily to use on a Little Toot Sport Biplane not the Europa.  But I'm trying to come up with a means to use in the Europa as well.

Pros: It's very nice.  Takes excellent video/pictures (up to 1080P video or 10MP pics).  Is easy to use (once you rtfm).  Has tons of accessories to do all kinds of good stuff.  Has lots of settings for the specific application you want to do.  All kinds of mounts for darn near anything.  Comes with an environmental case impervious to just about anything short of gun fire.  Other cases for other applications are available.  Free S/W for Mac or PC.  Extremely easy to download video/pics on my Mac.  Can't speak to PC but probably as easy.

Cons: It's as aerodynamic a (small) brick and would be a B**** to mount on the exterior of a Europa.  You'll need extra batteries for anything over a couple hours.  Each hour of operation requires about an hour of recharge.  Recharge is only done with the battery in the camera via USB connection.  No external battery recharger available.  So you can't recharge one battery while using a 2nd battery in the camera.

Maybe with some effort you could gin-up a mount for in front of the outrigger/outer flap bracket.  There's a remote control package (US$100) that might work to operate it out there.  If you are still under construction and have not put the tip of the tail on, you might do something with that.  Maybe in a wing tip?  There's a suction mount and/or various sticky mounts you might use inside the windscreen.  A couple different head mounts are available.  More thought needed...

If it were only more aero!  

A couple pics:

[img]cid:60EA48B9-F817-4470-AE5D-7A1F72BE2E8C[/img]

[img]cid:29F1B1A8-7091-4D87-A15D-D0E38BD98FDE[/img]

The Motorsport configuration comes with all this:

[img]cid:CE74F370-56AC-4386-A706-F4D33D237D84[/img]



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Jul 31, 2012, at 2:13 PM, graeme bird wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk (graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk)>



Any advice on video or time lapse camera types and mounting on the plane. The Go Pro looks popular and good but far from aerodynamic in shape although it could go in front of the mono outrigger. Taking pictures from the cockpit is frustrating due to the perspex.



--------

Graeme Bird

G-UMPY

Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W

Newby: 35 hours  

g(at)gdbmk.co.uk

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pestar

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: cameras and mounting

I have been looking for a camera for my MCR-4S and have been looking at the Go-Pro but I am tending towards the Replay XD1080 www.replayxd.com/cameras/replay-xd1080-camera/ for the same reason as most. 



Its shape is a lot more conducive to fitting inside an aircraft and it has the ability to be remotely controlled by a panel mounted hardware start stop kit that also has a 3.5mm audio input allowing my headset audio to be incorporated into the video.



As I have a MGL Voyager G2 I am looking at a HDMI -> Video converter and feeding the video into the back of my Voyager and Voila I have a monitor on my EFIS of my camera. The Voyager takes up to 4 video inputs.



Trust this helps.



Cheers Peter

_________________
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me Smile

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

http://www.vio-pov.com/



The VIP pov camera is ideally suited to mounting anywhere on the airframe -

the camera unit is small and with an extension lead can be mounted on the

wingtips if required. The angle of view is 140 degrees so easy to fit the

whole cockpit into frame. 



Only problem I have found is that any camera mounted in the cockpit needs

substantial anti vibration mounting. Alternately cameras with built in image

stabilisation work well though not as compact.



I am currently experimenting with a gel type mount which will hopefully

dampen out the worst of any vibrations.



--

MJKTuck(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

I like the look of the Drift HD camera. It has a small LCD screen which 

will allow you to compose your shot and a rotatable lens which allows 

you to straighten the picture even if mounted at an angle. Even has a 

remote which would allow you to turn it on and off even when mounted 

externally.



www.Driftinnovation.com/camera/drift-hd/



Martin Tuck

Europa N152MT

Wichita, Kansas



On 7/31/2012 4:48 PM, Carl Pattinson wrote:

[quote] 



 http://www.vio-pov.com/



 The VIP pov camera is ideally suited to mounting anywhere on the airframe -

 the camera unit is small and with an extension lead can be mounted on the

 wingtips if required. The angle of view is 140 degrees so easy to fit the

 whole cockpit into frame.



 Only problem I have found is that any camera mounted in the cockpit needs

 substantial anti vibration mounting. Alternately cameras with built in image

 stabilisation work well though not as compact.



 I am currently experimenting with a gel type mount which will hopefully

 dampen out the worst of any vibrations.



 --

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

Just a clarification,  there is a "battery backpack" which comes with a larger back cover, which doubles the battery life, and the backpack can also be used as a charger separate from the camera.  I just bought one and it works great.

As you said, there are a crazy number of accessories, one of which is also the wifi backpack, allowing one to control multiple remote gopro cameras from the cockpit.

The vid and picture quality of the hero2 is the best out there for these types of cameras. No image stabilization however.

Cheers,

Pete



On Jul 31, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)> wrote:



[quote]Graeme,



FWIW, I acquired a Go Pro Hero2.  I acquired this primarily to use on a Little Toot Sport Biplane not the Europa.  But I'm trying to come up with a means to use in the Europa as well.

Pros: It's very nice.  Takes excellent video/pictures (up to 1080P video or 10MP pics).  Is easy to use (once you rtfm).  Has tons of accessories to do all kinds of good stuff.  Has lots of settings for the specific application you want to do.  All kinds of mounts for darn near anything.  Comes with an environmental case impervious to just about anything short of gun fire.  Other cases for other applications are available.  Free S/W for Mac or PC.  Extremely easy to download video/pics on my Mac.  Can't speak to PC but probably as easy.

Cons: It's as aerodynamic a (small) brick and would be a B**** to mount on the exterior of a Europa.  You'll need extra batteries for anything over a couple hours.  Each hour of operation requires about an hour of recharge.  Recharge is only done with the battery in the camera via USB connection.  No external battery recharger available.  So you can't recharge one battery while using a 2nd battery in the camera.

Maybe with some effort you could gin-up a mount for in front of the outrigger/outer flap bracket.  There's a remote control package (US$100) that might work to operate it out there.  If you are still under construction and have not put the tip of the tail on, you might do something with that.  Maybe in a wing tip?  There's a suction mount and/or various sticky mounts you might use inside the windscreen.  A couple different head mounts are available.  More thought needed...

If it were only more aero!  

A couple pics:

<IMG_3551em.jpg>

<IMG_3555em.jpg>

The Motorsport configuration comes with all this:

<IMG_3556em.jpg>



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Jul 31, 2012, at 2:13 PM, graeme bird wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk (graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk)>



Any advice on video or time lapse camera types and mounting on the plane. The Go Pro looks popular and good but far from aerodynamic in shape although it could go in front of the mono outrigger. Taking pictures from the cockpit is frustrating due to the perspex.



--------

Graeme Bird

G-UMPY

Mono Classic/XS FWFD 912ULS/Woodcomp 3000/W

Newby: 35 hours  

g(at)gdbmk.co.uk



[b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

Pete,



I missed the documentation that the "battery bacPac" (US$50) could also double as an off-camera charger.  I guess I'll eventually have to invest in one of them and the Wi-Fi BacPac + Wi-Fi Remote.

Thanks.



 Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

 

 

On Jul 31, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Pete wrote:

Just a clarification,  there is a "battery backpack" which comes with a larger back cover, which doubles the battery life, and the backpack can also be used as a charger separate from the camera.  I just bought one and it works great.

As you said, there are a crazy number of accessories, one of which is also the wifi backpack, allowing one to control multiple remote gopro cameras from the cockpit.

The vid and picture quality of the hero2 is the best out there for these types of cameras. No image stabilization however.

Cheers,

Pete



On Jul 31, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Graeme,



FWIW, I acquired a Go Pro Hero2.  I acquired this primarily to use on a Little Toot Sport Biplane not the Europa.  But I'm trying to come up with a means to use in the Europa as well.

Pros: It's very nice.  Takes excellent video/pictures (up to 1080P video or 10MP pics).  Is easy to use (once you rtfm).  Has tons of accessories to do all kinds of good stuff.  Has lots of settings for the specific application you want to do.  All kinds of mounts for darn near anything.  Comes with an environmental case impervious to just about anything short of gun fire.  Other cases for other applications are available.  Free S/W for Mac or PC.  Extremely easy to download video/pics on my Mac.  Can't speak to PC but probably as easy.

Cons: It's as aerodynamic a (small) brick and would be a B**** to mount on the exterior of a Europa.  You'll need extra batteries for anything over a couple hours.  Each hour of operation requires about an hour of recharge.  Recharge is only done with the battery in the camera via USB connection.  No external battery recharger available.  So you can't recharge one battery while using a 2nd battery in the camera.

Maybe with some effort you could gin-up a mount for in front of the outrigger/outer flap bracket.  There's a remote control package (US$100) that might work to operate it out there.  If you are still under construction and have not put the tip of the tail on, you might do something with that.  Maybe in a wing tip?  There's a suction mount and/or various sticky mounts you might use inside the windscreen.  A couple different head mounts are available.  More thought needed...

If it were only more aero!  

A couple pics:

<IMG_3551em.jpg>

<IMG_3555em.jpg>

The Motorsport configuration comes with all this:

<IMG_3556em.jpg>



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

Hi Graeme,

 I use now a Gopro since 3 years into the cockpit.

 On my first fixation I have many vibrations, and the movies are very  bad.

 After, I studied a new fixation system and the vibrations are stopped,  movies are stable and very good. I give to you pictures of my installation to  morrow.

 This advantage is to manage the Gopro in flight, and also the fixation  have capability to rotate left and right at your convenience.

  

 Michel AUVRAY

 Builder 145

  

    

  

   From: Carl  Pattinson (carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk)

 Date: 2012-07-31 23:48

 To: europa-list (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: cameras and  mounting

  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>

  

 http://www.vio-pov.com/

  

 The VIP pov camera is ideally suited to mounting anywhere on the airframe -

 the camera unit is small and with an extension lead can be mounted on the

 wingtips if required. The angle of view is 140 degrees so easy to fit the

 whole cockpit into frame. 

  

 Only problem I have found is that any camera mounted in the cockpit needs

 substantial anti vibration mounting. Alternately cameras with built in image

 stabilisation work well though not as compact.

  

 I am currently experimenting with a gel type mount which will hopefully

 dampen out the worst of any vibrations.

  

 --

gholland(at)content-strea
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: cameras and mounting

A camera worth looking at is the Contour Roam or N-Flight Cam.

The N-Flight Cam has a lens filter that reduces Prop blur very well and also an inline jack plug/socket to record audio as in headsets.

It does cost $500. A 'Lite' version is available without Lens filtering and that is around $300.

In truth the lens filter is a Neutral Density ND 4.0 filter and that can be purchased for a few dollars from Amazon.

You'll also need a 31mm to 37mm lens converter at about $5 or the Contour Lens kit at $25.



Prop blur is present in most of the POV Cameras. Neutral density filters can reduce that very effectively with only small change in film appearance.



The top of the range N-Flight has GPS integral so film 'position' recorded. It also can be blue toothed to iPhone as a Controller and viewer.



Information:



http://www.nflightcam.com/



http://contour.com/



Hope that helps.

Gerry

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:39 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Michel,



I am very interested in your mounting.  Looking forward to those pictures.

Thanks in advance!

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

 

 

On Aug 1, 2012, at 1:52 AM, mau11 wrote:

Hi Graeme,

I use now a Gopro since 3 years into the cockpit.

On my first fixation I have many vibrations, and the movies are very bad.

After, I studied a new fixation system and the vibrations are stopped, movies are stable and very good. I give to you pictures of my installation to morrow.

This advantage is to manage the Gopro in flight, and also the fixation have capability to rotate left and right at your convenience.

 

Michel AUVRAY

Builder 145

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 242

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:47 am Post subject: Re: cameras and mounting

I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just behind my head.  A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface.  I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down.



I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T bar (fits between the doors when they are both up).  The sticky pad mount is almost impossible to remove, so beware.



Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside.



I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library.  Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments.  I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes)  3 times during a t/o roll!  I also found out l rock the wings a lot!



There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution.  The prop does not intrude in the picture.



I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool tufts to show breakaway during stalls.



Regards

John

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Hi John,



I'd be really interested in seeing some of your vids!  They would be

inspirational for my build. I'd be happy to pay you for a DVD or two





Since getting back into the air last November I've also been videoing

my every flight (in a group-owned 1946 Fleet Canuck sadly - but it is

a tailwheel and does have a stick     Taking vids started out as a

way for my ailing father to go flying with me vicariously (which he

enjoys immensely), but I also see the value in reviewing my flights

and performance (or lack of it).  Here's a short 1080i (one has to

select the higher resolution) example I threw up on youtube from last

winter:    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACiM2u0YTvw



I find the GoPro2 to be a great little camera - and even in the

noisy/shaky canuck, the vids come out clear except for some vibration

through the resonance point.  I attempted to smooth it out with by

adding weight to the camera with mixed results. I am using the

rubber-ball ram mount system (clamped to a cross bar behind my head)

which obviously has some flex due to the rubber.



I bought a couple of earbud-size mics and velcroed them into my A20

headset (Did I mention the Canuck is *noisy*?), to get some background

engine noise/music/atc into the vid.  I picked them up them from:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2



The GoPro2 also takes great still photos. The resolution from even

1080i frame grabs is pretty darn good.



Cheers,

Pete



On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:47 AM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 I have a GoPro mounted inside the cockpit attached to the roof centre bar just behind my head.  A std sticky GoPro supplied pad adhered 100% to the surface.  I use the invert function in the camera as it is mounted upside down.



 I have a second mount external in a similar position but as far fwd on the T bar (fits between the doors when they are both up).  The sticky pad mount is almost impossible to remove, so beware.



 Interestingly the speed seem to reduce 7kts when the camera is on the outside.



 I try to film every flight and correlate the GPS tracks and film in a library.  Its good to analyse your own performance, check speeds and record all the instruments.  I discovered that l check the brakes (trigear finger brakes)  3 times during a t/o roll!  I also found out l rock the wings a lot!



 There is no shake, rattle or shimmy with the GoPro - set to 720i resolution.  The prop does not intrude in the picture.



 I will also try the suction mount on the wingtip soon, possibly with some wool tufts to show breakaway during stalls.



 Regards

 John



 --------

 John Wighton

 Europa XS trigear G-IPOD





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=379853#379853

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Hi Pete,



The Youtube clip is really clear and steady (no vibration). How is the

camera mounted onto the airframe.



I had real problems with vibration from the airframe.



The only way I managed to iron these out was to mount camera (it's a bullet

camera) on the headset side but only problem is that every time I turn my

head the field of view changes which doesn't make for good viewing.



The camera is a VIO pov camera which in itself is excellent as the camera

and control box are separate - you can see what the lens is seeing in real

time.



Just need to find a way of damping out the vibrations.



--

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: cameras and mounting

Hi Carl,



The Canuck is one very vibrating and noisy fabric and tube airplane (a C-85 with a currently unbalanced prop), and I was very surprised that the camera image didn't shake more. It does "swim" a bit in the video if you look closely when the airframe meets the mount's resonance frequency.  Because the aircraft is tube&rag, mount is a combination of RAM parts:

http://www.gpscity.ca/ram-mount-steel-u-bolt-motorcycle-mount-base-ram-b-231u.html

http://www.gpscity.ca/ram-mount-long-arm-b-socket-ram-b-201u-c.html

http://www.gpscity.ca/ram-mount-camera-mount-mini-plate-rap-b-366u.html

+ the stock GoProHero2 mount.



I noticed that when I made the mount longer with another length and a 'joiner' the resonant frequency changed as expected.  I fabricated a 1 lb steel wieght and tried it on the camera end of the mount in a hope that the resonant freq would decrease below idle, but I found i would need much more weight and stopped using it.



The Hero2 doesn't advertise image stabilization, and when hand-held seems to b e very jumpy, but on the (vibrating) airframe its pretty good as the vid showed.  Better than expected on my trail-ridden dual sport motorcycle too.  The colours are better than that video depicts, as that was a very grey/dark day here in springtime Ottawa, Canada.



After reviewing many cameras, the Hero2 came out with the best quality, and I have been very happy with it.



Cheers,

Pete

On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:16 AM, "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Hi Pete,

 

 The Youtube clip is really clear and steady (no vibration). How is the

 camera mounted onto the airframe.

 

 I had real problems with vibration from the airframe.

 

 The only way I managed to iron these out was to mount camera (it's a bullet

 camera) on the headset side but only problem is that every time I turn my

 head the field of view changes which doesn't make for good viewing.

 

 The camera is a VIO pov camera which in itself is excellent as the camera

 and control box are separate - you can see what the lens is seeing in real

 time.

 

 Just need to find a way of damping out the vibrations.

 

 --

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