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n76lima(at)mindspring.com
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 Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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| Quote: | Izit just me, or are new pilots being extremely unwise in their
unflinching reliance on pod&pad things? I had a talk with an IFR
student recently who claimed that he never takes paper charts along,
despite his instructor's urgings. He's got a Garmin in the panel, an
iPad, and an iPhone. "Redundancy: check", he brags.
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There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate with GPS.
Like the "limited to automatic transmission" licenses for drivers in
some states.
If you can't nav by DR, Pilotage, and VORs with paper charts, you
limit in your pilot skill set.
Scares the heck out of me to fly on post maintenance checks with the
owner when they spend all their time head-down punching buttons and
staring at electronics. I often have to ask "Are you going to LOOK
outside?", as I've been the only one checking for traffic during the
flight. <sigh>
--Bob Steward
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md11strejo(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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Bob, I hate to say this but you need to catch up with the times. If you have a Garmin 430/530 or better that has a current NAV. Card plus an IPad that runs Foreflight with current plates and charts you are perfectly legal. I have thousands of flights all over the world with paper less cockpits. I fly my 1970 AA5B the same way. Nothing wrong with it. In fact I have better information at my finger tips then most Airlines. You should embrace technology it really works. I'm not saying one should never look outside for traffic, and I'm sure a believer in dead reckoning when things go bad. Just my thoughts.
Scott
MD11 Capt.
AA5B owner
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 25, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
> Izit just me, or are new pilots being extremely unwise in their unflinching reliance on pod&pad things? I had a talk with an IFR student recently who claimed that he never takes paper charts along, despite his instructor's urgings. He's got a Garmin in the panel, an iPad, and an iPhone. "Redundancy: check", he brags.
There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate with GPS.
Like the "limited to automatic transmission" licenses for drivers in some states.
If you can't nav by DR, Pilotage, and VORs with paper charts, you limit in your pilot skill set.
Scares the heck out of me to fly on post maintenance checks with the owner when they spend all their time head-down punching buttons and staring at electronics. I often have to ask "Are you going to LOOK outside?", as I've been the only one checking for traffic during the flight. <sigh>
--Bob Steward
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mel(at)becknet.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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One of the aircraft I fly has the new Garmin GTN, and I have
Foreflight on my iPad. I use them and love them. But I still carry
paper charts, because all those electronic goodies can go poof.
Yes, you're legal without paper charts. But are you smart?
-mel
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:22:32 -0500
Scott Trejo <md11strejo(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
<md11strejo(at)yahoo.com>
Bob, I hate to say this but you need to catch up with the times.
If you have a Garmin 430/530 or better that has a current NAV. Card
plus an IPad that runs Foreflight with current plates and charts you
are perfectly legal. I have thousands of flights all over the world
with paper less cockpits. I fly my 1970 AA5B the same way. Nothing
wrong with it. In fact I have better information at my finger tips
then most Airlines. You should embrace technology it really works.
I'm not saying one should never look outside for traffic, and I'm
sure a believer in dead reckoning when things go bad. Just my
thoughts.
Scott
MD11 Capt.
AA5B owner
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 25, 2012, at 12:56 PM, Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com>
wrote:
>
><n76lima(at)mindspring.com>
>
>
>> Izit just me, or are new pilots being extremely unwise in their
>>unflinching reliance on pod&pad things? I had a talk with an IFR
>>student recently who claimed that he never takes paper charts along,
>>despite his instructor's urgings. He's got a Garmin in the panel, an
>>iPad, and an iPhone. "Redundancy: check", he brags.
>
> There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate
>with GPS.
>
> Like the "limited to automatic transmission" licenses for drivers in
>some states.
>
> If you can't nav by DR, Pilotage, and VORs with paper charts, you
>limit in your pilot skill set.
>
> Scares the heck out of me to fly on post maintenance checks with the
>owner when they spend all their time head-down punching buttons and
>staring at electronics. I often have to ask "Are you going to LOOK
>outside?", as I've been the only one checking for traffic during the
>flight. <sigh>
>
> --Bob Steward
>
>
>
>
|
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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"There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate with GPS."
-guilty
From: Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Too many toys in the cockpit
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com (n76lima(at)mindspring.com)>
| Quote: | Izit just me, or are new pilots being extremely unwise in their unflinching reliance on pod&pad things? I had a talk with an IFR student recently who claimed that he never takes paper charts along, despite his instructor's urgings. He's got a Garmin in the panel, an iPad, and an iPhone. "Redundancy: check", he brags.
|
There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate with GPS.
Like the "limited to automatic transmission" licenses for drivers in some states.
If you can't nav by DR, Pilotage, and VORs with paper charts, you limit in your pilot skill set.
Scares the heck out of me to fly on post maintenance checks with the owner when they spend all their time head-down punching buttons and staring at electronics. I often have to ask "Are you going to LOOK outside?", as I've been the only one checking for traffic during the flight. <sigh>
--Bob Stewasp; nbsp; ================
[quote][b]
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bhauskne(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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You are smart to carry whatever you are most comfortable with that meets the regs. Glad we can have diversity. Cheers!
_
Brian Hausknecht
bhauskne(at)gmail.com
www.brianflys.net
www.brianflys.com
--
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n76lima(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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| Quote: | Bob, I hate to say this but you need to catch up with the
times. If you have a Garmin 430/530 or better that has a current
NAV. Card plus an IPad that runs Foreflight with current plates and
charts you are perfectly legal. I have thousands of flights all
over the world with paper less cockpits. I fly my 1970 AA5B the
same way. Nothing wrong with it. In fact I have better information
at my finger tips then most Airlines. You should embrace technology
it really works. I'm not saying one should never look outside for
traffic, and I'm sure a believer in dead reckoning when things go
bad. Just my thoughts.
Scott
|
Not opposed to technology, just observing that the use of it, at the
expense of the time proven methods means brain-dead pilots that CAN'T
Nav when the electrons go away. I rather imagine that anyone flying
for the Majors has had enough training in the non-glass environment
to be able to do fine when the lights go out.
If you don't have the fundamentals down (as most every newly minted
pilot with a GPS in his flight bag), then you are limited with your
options in a tight situation.
Not saying that every flight is made with a thumb on the chart
showing current position, but if all you have are the toys, and they
go POOF! then you are in a bad situation as opposed to just being
inconvenienced.
As we know from maintenance, there is Legal, and there is Safe, and
sometimes they are NOT the same thing!
--Bob Steward
Birmingham, AL
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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beltz6
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Goleta, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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| teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com wrote: | "There ought to be a limited license for those that can only navigate with GPS."
-guilty
|
Gary and I are having a friendly argument over whether to replace my Narco 122 with a Garmin 430 for my #2 nav position. I'm not caving in on that one.
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md11strejo(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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Bob, Your right about new pilots, and even some very old pilots. I was very reluctant to give up paper charts 6 years ago when I started using an EFB. As long as you know your limitations and the limitations of the equipment your using. And yes we have been using EFB's a lot longer then most GA pilots.
Scott
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 25, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Bob Steward <n76lima(at)mindspring.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
> Bob, I hate to say this but you need to catch up with the times. If you have a Garmin 430/530 or better that has a current NAV. Card plus an IPad that runs Foreflight with current plates and charts you are perfectly legal. I have thousands of flights all over the world with paper less cockpits. I fly my 1970 AA5B the same way. Nothing wrong with it. In fact I have better information at my finger tips then most Airlines. You should embrace technology it really works. I'm not saying one should never look outside for traffic, and I'm sure a believer in dead reckoning when things go bad. Just my thoughts.
> Scott
Not opposed to technology, just observing that the use of it, at the expense of the time proven methods means brain-dead pilots that CAN'T Nav when the electrons go away. I rather imagine that anyone flying for the Majors has had enough training in the non-glass environment to be able to do fine when the lights go out.
If you don't have the fundamentals down (as most every newly minted pilot with a GPS in his flight bag), then you are limited with your options in a tight situation.
Not saying that every flight is made with a thumb on the chart showing current position, but if all you have are the toys, and they go POOF! then you are in a bad situation as opposed to just being inconvenienced.
As we know from maintenance, there is Legal, and there is Safe, and sometimes they are NOT the same thing!
--Bob Steward
Birmingham, AL
|
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
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Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: Too many toys in the cockpit |
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I guess it depends a bit on whether your IFR or VFR. If your IFR paper charts are a distraction. If you lose navigation you rely on ATC to vector you to a VFR landing. If your VFR paper can be a nice backup unless it causes your head to be inside the cockpit too much. Knowing a compass heading and what's on the ground is even better.
During my instrument check ride the 430's both started flashing INTEG during the final approach. Luckily I caught the warning and announced to the examiner that we would have to go missed approach. He just said continue the approach since we could see it at that point.
Maybe Garmin is referring to VOR or paper charts in there explanation of INTEG:
For GPS-based approaches, receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM) will monitor satellite conditions and alert the pilot using an ‘INTEG’ or ‘WARN’ annunciation at the bottom left corner of the display (see page 15) if protection limits cannot be maintained. If this occurs, the GPS receiver should not be used for primary navigation guidance. Revert to an alternate navigation source, or select an alternate destination airport.
[quote][b]
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